What this new flare-up in the Middle East is all about. We're being thrown a curve people.

reply to post by subtopia

Realize that power and control is TOTALLY RELIANT UPON THAT WHICH IT TRIES TO CONTROL.

THE MONEY IS NOT REAL yet they need to control the illusion of its reality is and if you try to mess with that then you are by that 1933 Presidential Order, in for an unfortunate accident.

Realize that those in power are struggling with the mind boggling statistics of global governance.

This is why no human civilization has survived more than a couple of thousand years. Even with modern computers we are still up to the bottom of our eye balls in a pit of our own, 'you know what'.

Yet WHY?

What is it about HUMAN NATURE that continually compels us to empower those that are incapable of sustaining the basic requirements for the majority so the minority can continue to live in there bubble of isolational illusionary bliss until once again the majority get fed up them and want to cut off there heads.

WHY? And why haven't we learnt from our own human history.

What, are you going through the terrible twos or something? WHY WHY WHY? Only kidding

I think the reason we haven't learned from our own human history is because real history isn't TAUGHT. Children are born into certain subsets of a culture where they're raised to believe THIS way is the only way. They're handed a bible and told THIS IS GOD, and there is only one. They're handed a history book and told THESE ARE YOUR FOREBEARS WHO WERE THE NEAREST THING TO GOD. They're handed a piece of currency that is honored within their culture and are told WITH THIS YOU CAN BUY CANDY. Their parents and teachers went through similar indoctrination and conditioning so its all they know and cannot teach anything else.

It isn't just why, though, its how. Its what we learn and experience as impressionable kids. Some get over it, or though it and beyond it, while others refuse to budge an inch. An example of that is how parents react to the idea of Islamic studies being available in public schools, most with screams of Stonings and Beheadings and SHARIA without having the slightest clue of what a Muslim believes. Its different, its evil and anyone who says different is evil.

Maybe kids should be raised with history books written from various perspectives of those historical times. Like what could go wrong if the true history of the trail of tears was taught along side the true stories of Andrew Jackson? Would it be a bad thing to know both sides of the "coin"? What are we protecting the children from? The truth?

Maybe kids should be raised with a basket of currencies .... all of which will buy candy. All we have to do is print them, is that so hard? money.cnn.com...

They'd make better parents and maybe their kids would act more civilized. Just a thought.

reply to post by doug r


Am i the only one who thinks this battle between the israelies and palistinians is not only stupid but selfish and negligent? innocents are going to be killed even more all over land and religion, if there is a god i will laugh so hard when he smites them both for their hate crimes! what is with men and being bread to be war mongers!

reply to post by subtopia


So who is instigating the financial instability and eventual collapse? You think it is happening by bad luck alone?

Who is instigating the constant wars against islam? Just bad luck?

Who is bringing all this bad luck? Is it more bad luck or what?

This is the guy I toast a glass of brandy to whenever things get tough.



Or this guy....



I don't have to be a communist to appreciate courageous, visionary, progressive leaders, even if they got the details wrong. The bourgeois hiding behind capitalism is and always has been the enemy. They are a class of their own detached from society and the struggles most face in their day to day life.

So who is the enemy and why? Is it evil aliens residing in hollow earth or what? Glad to see disinformation agents(not necessarily you) participating in the ATS discussions and showing their true colors. "Human nature" blah, blah, blah.....meanwhile masonry continues to remain a society exclusively built on secrecy and some superficial charity.

reply to post by frazzle


Nice eloquent post frazzle. You have a way of discussing things peripherally so people get the message without getting into the nitty gritty. I prefer a more direct approach. Almost the same result. We don't have to agree politically to know there is something very wrong with this world today.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by frazzle

 

Nice eloquent post frazzle. You have a way of discussing things peripherally so people get the message without getting into the nitty gritty. I prefer a more direct approach. Almost the same result. We don't have to agree politically to know there is something very wrong with this world today.

Thanks for the compliment, although I don't know that I even posess any nitty gritty or any particular political stance so its hard to disagree all that energetically with yours. And I don't mind a direct approach as long as it doesn't involve a broken nose

Most of my ideas are pretty fluid and subject to change at a moment's notice because new information comes along so frequently making old ideas defunct. Some people would call that wishy washy, but I think of it more as growing pains.

History truly repeats itself.
The Bankster vermin have captured our government and are doing as they please.
IF only people knew how many Goldman Sachs and other Wall Street Bankers are infested in our government or lobby on the outside to their fellow Banker Chums inside.

Originally posted by doug r
7 Weeks to Austerity Programs in the US...Who do you think wrote the "fiscal cliff" legislation?

Calling it the "fiscal cliff" and focusing on an arbitrary deadline is a distraction technique that forces people to look at what's really happening from the wrong perspective and therefore miss it entirely.

The deal with the banks is...."congress will pass laws implementing austerity programs to fully legitimize the process and the sheeple will be ever grateful in their sinking financial state that THE CLIFF (which the bankers created out of thin air for "the deal" through all their well known influence with our political class/oligarchy) was heroically avoided in the final hours by relentless, sleepless determination from our lawmakers to prove this great country can put aside deep fractiousness and come together when the going gets tough."

It may be minuscule to the GNP but not to the average American.
The ones that benefit greatly based on the GNP is not the average American but the top elite that hold the majority of this countries wealth.

The GNP is basically a measure of the goods and services produced by all citizens within a given year.
And the share of wealth from the GNP is definitely small for most Americans.

Let the ones that have taken over our government pay 100% in taxes.
Not out of my tax dollars!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

The amount of Money although being a large amount...spent on the U.S. Military is minuscule in comparison to the GNP of the United States. It is not enough to cause the economy to either dive or go up.

Good one
Hell has a big wide open mouth for those that prey upon others misery for their own gain.

Originally posted by Rapha
reply to post by doug r

 

They are laughing all the way to the bank

Soon they will be screaming all the way to hell.

Your reference to it being a rigged system reminded me of something Bush Senior said once.
He said in regards to the New World Order, which we are in, that we would be in a world where the rule of law and not the rule of the jungle would prevail.

It is this close minded arrogant attitude I don't understand, because he could not see that it his and the elite rules that they wish to impose on everyone, and to others, those rules he imposes are the rule of the jungle. "Survival of the rigged"

Originally posted by theMediator

There's nothing wrong with pointing that capitalism is wrong and that socialism is a fairer economic system for the majority. Theoretically, I believe this is true.
Our rigged capitalism could never ever bring world peace and happiness.

reply to post by ElohimJD


A generalization has its place especially when it matchers precisely the median. There is no problem in applying a generalization when it is clear intended as one and it is non offensive...

On the other hand you were not only offensive in the reply but based it in a possible assumption, I doubt that you can justify the claim by any previous posts I have made...

Originally posted by frazzle
Apparently there’s something I’m missing here. Who funds the capitalists and property owners if not money lenders? For that matter, who funds (capitalizes) communist governments?

I didn't say money lenders didn't finance capitalists? Communist governments? It depends what you mean by that?

I'm not too interested in "communist governments", only a communist economy. In a communist economy there is no financing needed as it is not a profit based economy, money is meaningless.

"Communist governments" are not actually communist, they have all been state-capitalist. The private ownership of the means of production by private members of the government. No better than capitalism.

You probably know British history a lot better than I do, but a whole succession of English monarchs got in over their heads (some of them literally) with lenders and goldsmiths who had capitalized them, going at least as far back as the 1200s and probably much earlier. New ships for the fleets and new crown jewels, building those grand cathedrals. Being a king or queen doesn’t come cheap, you know.

And again what is your point? Capitalising someone is not capitalism. Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. Money, capital, property, can exist outside of capitalism.

Since then and still today there is no such thing as a government or property owner in the western world that can be capitalized to any degree, or hire wage labor, without a lender lurking behind the entire enterprise. Likewise, it doesn't matter what you call a nation's form and style of governing, the lenders remain at the top of the heap and in full control of currency and commerce.

You have to stop thinking capital means capitalism. One is sums of money or assets put to productive use, the other is an economic system based on ownership of property.

The English peasants were "autonomous" and "lived off the land"? What a hoot. www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

I didn't say their lives were not hard and they were not oppressed and exploited by the land owners. What I mean by autonomous is they were generally free to use the land to make their living, even if they had to pay the land owner, the land owner could not deny them the use. Common land laws allowed that until the inclosure act that denied use of the land to the commoners and they were forced into jobs in the properties of the land owners.

What I said was they were exploited in that had to pay taxes and rent, but were not exploited for their labour, until after the inclosure laws starting in 1750.

Also your link is talking about the middles ages which ended around 1500, 250 years before the end of feudalism the period I am talking about.

A lot of those peasants sold themselves as HUMAN capital to wealthy plantation owners in the new world to serve as indentured servants for a number of years just to get out of the choking English system and have a chance for a future. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.

Again capital does not mean capitalism. Just like social does not mean socialism ( a lot of people think socialism means social programs). You can have capital in any economic system.

I wasn't trying to say things were better before capitalism, I was just explaining the history of it's beginnings.

reply to post by doug r


I fully agree with you (I could even post past contribution to other threads that I defend those same points). I have even gone further stating that a complete idealized capitalist system and a complete idealized communist system can not exist in competition (resources and people, in this respect no lesson can be learned from the cold war but how both sides acted to undermine the other and the consequences of that).

But what I stated is also a real concern, that the meaning of words and concepts especially political one have been eroded in the US...



Noam Chomsky on US Libertarian Party, discourse about how political dialog on the USA is nearly impossible by the corruption of terms. Focuses on libertarians in the USA, conservativism (he states to be one, but in the USA the term has a distinct meaning) and discusses superficially Adam Smith's free markets definition.

reply to post by doug r


Who is to be master. That's all.

Humpty Dumpty has a great fall. All the kings horses (tools / War machine) and all the king's men (Bankers, Scientists, economists...) Could not put Humpty Dumpty back to his place of glory again.

From Through the Looking Glass

`And only one for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

`I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I meant, "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"

`But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again.

`They've a temper, some of them -- particularly verbs, they're the proudest -- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs -- however, I can manage the whole of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'

Who is to be master. That's all!

reply to post by Panic2k11


Everyone should watch that vid.

Chomsky is a linguist, if anyone should know what words mean it's him.

If he was wrong it would discredit him entirely, he would never be able to teach linguistics again.

reply to post by jacobe001

I agree but as to the topic...Military Spending is not a sufficient amount of Money to create Large Fluctuations in the U.S. Economy.

What will cause Large Fluctuations? Change of Tax Codes and Laws!

As it stands now...a couple who have worked Hard all their lives and who have paid off their Home Mortgage and now desire to sell their Home and purchase a less expensive Condo in Florida will have to pay ridiculous amounts of Capital Gains upon the amount of Money in difference to the purchase and sale.

It is so ridiculous that the couple must buy property that is almost identical in nature and purpose to have even the ability to only be taxed on that differential. These are Mom and Pop hard working American Home Owners not some large Corp or Super Rich Venture Capitalist.

Capital Gains should be REDUCED DRAMATICALLY for the Middle Class. Also Taxes upon Business Owners who are sole proprietors such as the Self Employment Tax is a TRAVESTY! All employers are forced to match the amount of money paid into Social Security by an employee. An Employer must also pay for his own Social Security as well as the employer pays a SELF EMPLOYMENT TAX which is equal in amount to his Social Security. To make things worse a Small Business owner as a Self Proprietor must pay Work Mans Comp as well as well as Unemployment Tax...both of which he can NEVER RECEIVE!

These overtaxed Employers who provide over 80% of ALL JOBS in the United States are the source of Major Fluctuations that occur in the U.S. Economy. If Small Business cannot make ends meet due to Energy Costs, Over Taxation, Banks that will not lend them money for expansion as well as over zealous Regulations....the U.S. Economy will sputter to a halt as it did in the past decade.

Neither Party has helped the Largest Employer of all U.S. Citizens and to not due so now is Highly Irresponsible!
Split Infinity

Wow this must be a record, 4 pages of conspiracy theory and lack of education and understanding of the actual underlying problems. Wait, this can't be a conspiracy website can it? Let me explain it for those of you off your meds. When someone lobs a missle at you, you kill them back.... There understand now. Go back to your CSI or X-Factor or whatever it is you watch to get your information about political affairs. Or better yet, it's the reptile people.

"Danger McBacon....... ha ha ha.... you nailed that one.... You can watch ATS and the daily and weekly threads and also see all the chaos in society. This thread and that, all the 'most Grave' dilemma's fast approaching...... Everybody scurrying in Different directions. Sort of what the Government is designing in the population at large. Smoke and mirrors designed to hide what they are doing behind closed doors and to the detriment of the US in secret.

reply to post by ANOK


The point you seem to be missing is the source of capital. Money has no preference as to how its used or what its called, it’s just a tool and can be used to create any form of government or commerce.
Personally, I think the isms are a red herring to the nth degree, designed only to confuse people, and as mentioned a few times already by doug, they have morphed into a blend of the conceptions by which they’re called so they're generally good for nothing except to scare people into making bad decisions.

“No financing needed” is, for all intents and purposes, a pie in the sky concept that won’t work outside theory. Unless you are capable of truly living off the land there is nowhere on earth one can subsist for long without some form of currency and that currency will be created and denominated BY SOMEONE. There is no unclaimed place left on earth where one can live off the land. Even the rainforests where the last indigenous tribes have lived for centuries without any need for currency are being claimed by major oil companies and the tribes are being driven off their land. For resources, which equals money and control.

Even the “uncivilized” tribes of America had devised a form of currency, called wampum. Funny how that worked so well for them for thousands of years ~ until the Europeans came along and debauched that currency, too.

“New European metal drills augmented production of wampum, increasing the volume and availability, while fashioning a more refined and delicate bead.61 The English in Boston had discovered additional ways to channel larger quantities of wampum into their treasury. As bead makers became more dependent on European trade, they were more vulnerable to increasingly multifarious English rules and regulations and intimidated by fear of additional aggression toward them by the English.62 For various offences of English law, a fine of wampum would be paid. In this way large sums of wampum would be gained without a reciprocal benefit for the Indians.

www.hartford-hwp.com...

As for who owned the land in England during the period you’re talking about or any other historical period after the various tribes had been contained into the lord/serf model of commerce and government, how much was not owned by barons and feudal lords where your autonomous people supposedly lived? You can’t have it both ways, either these people were exploited by the “land owners” or they weren’t. I would suggest the historical novel, “Pillars of the Earth” by Ken Follet for a walkthrough of life for English peasantry to get an idea of just how free they were to make their own way without currency. They still aren’t and they can’t.

reply to post by the Mediator


If you compare Socialism to the Agenda 21 so called socialism you see that it really is not socialism but Feudalism which the NWO favors . Prescott Bush , the elder George Bush's daddy tried to form a coup against Roosevelt to make the USA a Fascist Government . I don't think the NWO government will benefit the majority .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by the Mediator

 

If you compare Socialism to the Agenda 21 so called socialism you see that it really is not socialism but Feudalism which the NWO favors . Prescott Bush , the elder George Bush's daddy tried to form a coup against Roosevelt to make the USA a Fascist Government . I don't think the NWO government will benefit the majority .

The individuals working to create a NWO are in fact a very small group of the population that have names and addresses like the rest of us. In fact, members of this elite group, namely the Rockefeller’s, Rothschild’s and Morgan’s have been known about for years.

The only way to stop a NWO is the “unlawful”, but, necessary incarceration of these families for crimes against humanity.
What government or army or police force would dare this feat knowing that the world’s armies are funded and intern controlled by these families and knowing that world wars have been fought, brother and against brother with both sides being funded by the same families.

An army that marches behind a banner of humanity and not under the influence of profit and power.