Is the USA Now Under God's Judgement?

reply to post by buster2010


God or not, I hate it when people arrogantly put down religion and present even less evidence than those they are mocking.

In fact, I hope there's a God just so he can wipe that smug look off adamant, know-it-all, athiests faces

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
So, the extermination of the Native Americans and enslavement of Africans were a ok in god's eyes?

It's so easy to spot people that have never read the old testament

I think you have God mistaken for a kind loving ruler.

reply to post by DarthMuerte



Or maybe it is just karma for the native Americans?

Gods punishment doesn't make sense why would god punish everyone for the actions of a few? Less then 10 percent are homosexuals it's been pretty much that way through out history? Why are 300+ million people being punished for abortion when less then half a percent of the population has them?

Also since you seem to be coming from a Christian perspective the Bible teaches that life begins with the first breath not conception so the premise that abortion is murder as a christian doctrine is not true...

Don't get me wrong I am not an advocate for abortion however I do not believe a women should be forced to carry the child of her rapist to add insult to injury, neither do I believe government has any business telling women what to do period concerning abortion.

I agree we are being punished but not by god but by our own stupidity for allowing idiots into positions of authority and then obeying them and allowing them to gather power we did not delegate to them. Its called cause and effect do something stupid and you will suffer the consequences...

I believe in god or a higher intelligence but not like you do I am even a follower of Christ however I am not a christian. The Christian moniker signifies a cult of dogmatic beliefs that has little if anything to do with the teachings of Christ. Some who call themselves Christians may be followers of Christ but in my experience few are. Most of them fail miserably the first couple major tenants of following Christ which is not to judge others unless you want to be judged in the same manner you gave it out and treat others as you would want to be treated... None of us lives those 100% but so called Christians are some of the worst offenders of those I have ever seen while pretending to be pious do gooders for God...

Anyways I digress I got off track there a little but again "this is Gods Judgment" just does not make any sense why doesn't god just punish the small percentage that commit these supposed sins and leave the rest of us alone? Are you saying he is no smarter then the idiots who run businesses here on earth and punish the employees of their entire company with idiotic rules because one mush head did something stupid?

Originally posted by Beavers
In fact, I hope there's a God just so he can wipe that smug look off adamant, know-it-all, athiests faces

You better hope it's not the christian god.

Also, what evidence is Buster supposed to present? The non-existence of a god? Do you believe in Santa Claus? If not, can you prove to me his non-existence?

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

God had no problem popping up anywhere and everywhere like a demented jack-in-a-box in the past/OT.

Really ! How do you know this ? We haven't had a relationship with the Heavenly Father since Adam proved us all cowards by pointing his finger at his own wife, proclaiming she was the one what did it. She caused me to eat the fruit there of that you.....told ...... me....not to..... eat.

Originally posted by randyvs
Really ! How do you know this ? We haven't had a relationship with the Heavenly Father since Adam proved us all cowards by pointing his finger at his own wife, proclaiming she was the one what did it. She caused me toi eat the fruit there of that you.....told ...... me....not to..... eat.

So Abraham didn't have a relationship with god? Moses? Any of the other prophets and judges that heard directly from him? Or the Israelites who saw his mighty works many times?

And if that is the case, why do you believe the bible if none of these people actually had some kind of relationship with this god?

reply to post by Hydroman

and I'm not trying to be rude here, but was that your proof?

hello, don't worry, i know you're not being rude,

its difficult to explain and there is a lot more to tell but i wouldn't know where to start, but for me it was as if something/someone was chipping away at the false reality i'd grown up in, something inside me was forcing me out of my comfort zone for a reason and i believe it was God getting me ready for coming events, and it happened for me at just the right time, i've been through a couple of rough patches recently, and without God opening my eyes to every aspect of manipulation in the world i wouldn't have being able to understand why they were happening, i would have thought i was a failure as a woman and i would have always blamed myself and wondered why me? i hope that makes sense

i know i still haven't answered your question, but the whole world, every living creature, good and bad is my proof,

reply to post by hawkiye
Then you fail to understand why Sodom and Gomorrah were judged. It wasn't just the existence of the sodomites there was the tolerance by the greater population of their lifestyle. That was when they roused the Lord's ire. That is where we are now imo. Though some of us do not accept or tolerate their lifestyle, the multitude now seem to.

Originally posted by Minnie1985
i know i still haven't answered your question, but the whole world, every living creature, good and bad is my proof,

To me, what you're saying is that you don't know any other way how those things could be here, therefore a god must have done it. That's called an argument from ignorance. I'm not saying you are ignorant, but that is actually what the argument is called.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

God had no problem popping up anywhere and everywhere like a demented jack-in-a-box in the past/OT.

Really ! How do you know this ? We haven't had a relationship with the Heavenly Father since Adam proved us all cowards by pointing his finger at his own wife, proclaiming she was the one what did it. She caused me to eat the fruit there of that you.....told ...... me....not to..... eat.

edit on 17-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Like Hydroman was saying... what about all those people in the OT who said they spoke or saw God and God told them x,y, and z? I'm pretty sure the last talking burning bush was the one Moses saw, allegedly.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog

 

God had no problem popping up anywhere and everywhere like a demented jack-in-a-box in the past/OT.

Really ! How do you know this ? We haven't had a relationship with the Heavenly Father since Adam proved us all cowards by pointing his finger at his own wife, proclaiming she was the one what did it. She caused me toi eat the fruit there of that you.....told ...... me....not to..... eat.

I THINK you mean that we have not been able to have a "face to face" relationship with God since Adam sinned. God cannot abide the presence of sin. Adam was sinless prior to his fall. He could stand face to face with the creator. Since then, no one else could. His holiness would blast the sinful out of existence. Thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus, we will be able to come before the Lord when all is done.

reply to post by Hydroman

And if that is the case, why do you believe the bible if none of these people actually had some kind of relationship with this god

Notice I said we as in mankind. Collectively ! Individually there can of course be a relationship. That doesn't mean
God himself has to be present here on earth at anytime.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Then you fail to understand why Sodom and Gomorrah were judged. It wasn't just the existence of the sodomites there was the tolerance by the greater population of their lifestyle. That was when they roused the Lord's ire. That is where we are now imo. Though some of us do not accept or tolerate their lifestyle, the multitude now seem to.

I think you need to re-read the story. God promised if there were any righteous left he would not destroy them nowhere does it mention that the population was tolerating it so they all deserved to be destroyed this is more dogma. IOW they were all given over to the so called sin. Just a bit different then 10% being sinful out of billions...

And again Christ teaches not to judge others leave it up to god so this contradicts that we are responsible for the so called sins of others now doesn't it.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
God cannot abide the presence of sin. Adam was sinless prior to his fall. He could stand face to face with the creator. Since then, no one else could. His holiness would blast the sinful out of existence. Thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus, we will be able to come before the Lord when all is done.

Read the book of Job. Tell me how Satan, the father of sin, is able to have a face to face conversation with god, if god cannot abide sin....?

Originally posted by randyvs
Notice I said we as in mankind. Collectively ! Individually there can of course be a relationship. That doesn't mean
God himself has to be present here on earth at anytime.

Tell me about this relationship. What do you mean by that?

Originally posted by Hydroman
So Abraham didn't have a relationship with god? Moses? Any of the other prophets and judges that heard directly from him? Or the Israelites who saw his mighty works many times?

Not face to face, no. Remember that Moses wanted to see the Lord and the Lord said he could not. He sheltered Moses in the cleft of a rock and covered him so that he would not be destroyed. Yet Moses still shined just from indirect exposure to the glory of God.

Originally posted by HydromanAnd if that is the case, why do you believe the bible if none of these people actually had some kind of relationship with this god?

They did have a relationship with God. They heard from him, but they did not see him. They saw "The Angel of the Lord" which many believe was Jesus, they saw other Angels. They heard him speak and had dreams and visions. They did not see the face of GOD.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
God cannot abide the presence of sin. Adam was sinless prior to his fall. He could stand face to face with the creator. Since then, no one else could. His holiness would blast the sinful out of existence. Thanks to the sacrifice of Jesus, we will be able to come before the Lord when all is done.

Read the book of Job. Tell me how Satan, the father of sin, is able to have a face to face conversation with god, if god cannot abide sin....?

Satan/Lucifer was the covering angel. It was his purpose to protect others from the holiness of God. Satan was later removed/will be removed from heaven. Until then, he is still an angelic being, not a human.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Not face to face, no. Remember that Moses wanted to see the Lord and the Lord said he could not. He sheltered Moses in the cleft of a rock and covered him so that he would not be destroyed. Yet Moses still shined just from indirect exposure to the glory of God.

Then that is some form of relationship. Explain to me why god couldn't show his face to Moses. Was god not capable of toning down his glory so that Moses could look at him? Isn't he all-powerful? Or was he just too lazy to do it?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
They did have a relationship with God. They heard from him, but they did not see him. They saw "The Angel of the Lord" which many believe was Jesus, they saw other Angels. They heard him speak and had dreams and visions. They did not see the face of GOD.

Cool, now why don't we have that today?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
Satan/Lucifer was the covering angel. It was his purpose to protect others from the holiness of God. Satan was later removed/will be removed from heaven. Until then, he is still an angelic being, not a human.

The point is that he was full of sin, standing in the presence of god, which you said isn't possible. P.S. When we are dead and no longer in the flesh, why can't we be in god's presence, even though we are sinners, but no longer human?

Originally posted by hawkiye

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Then you fail to understand why Sodom and Gomorrah were judged. It wasn't just the existence of the sodomites there was the tolerance by the greater population of their lifestyle. That was when they roused the Lord's ire. That is where we are now imo. Though some of us do not accept or tolerate their lifestyle, the multitude now seem to.

I think you need to re-read the story. God promised if there were any righteous left he would not destroy them nowhere does it mention that the population was tolerating it so they all deserved to be destroyed this is more dogma. IOW they were all given over to the so called sin. Just a bit different then 10% being sinful out of billions...

And again Christ teaches not to judge others leave it up to god so this contradicts that we are responsible for the so called sins of others now doesn't it.

edit on 17-11-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

You need to reread my post. The majority of the population offended the Lord by tolerating their aberrant lifestyle. The same thing is happening here in the USA now. God may be waiting for that "tipping point" where there are no longer enough righteous people left here to justify sparing us the judgement this country has rightly earned. Or, we may have already passed that point. I am not sure, thus my question and this thread.