Do States Actually Have The Right To Secede? - Ben Swann -

reply to post by Cuervo


Thanks for the lesson. That was something I did not know.

Crap! Now I'm going to have to go to law school.

I am still waiting for someone to bring up Texas vs. White on the legal side of things.

Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party.

So Texas went to the Supreme Court and they said,

In accepting original jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null"

"The court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to unilaterally secede from the United States", maybe I am taking this out of context and am not fully understanding the wording.

Sounds to me like the United States Supreme Court said the Constitution did not give Texas the right to secede the Union.

the states need to get rid of D.C.. its the federal government that is the problem, its supposed to be a representation of the states who are a representation of the people. but now it represents itself, and cares not what damage it does to the states of the union.. I like to think of D.C. as Americas Israel.

Originally posted by Praetorius

Originally posted by jacksmoke

Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave

With Texas having an economy surpassing most of the nations in the world, I'll have to disagree with you on this.

That's just silly.

Wrong you are. California has the world's eight largest economy and Texas is ranked fourteenth. Plus Texas gets way more money from the federal government than it actually pays out. States like California, NY, etc (you know those blue states) pay more out than they get back; so technically their monies go to support Texas and lots of those red states. States like Texas sure like other people's money.

A lot of people on here are thinking too much about 'this and that CAN'T happen today!" just because they have lived in a country where they have felt comfortable and the government was in control.
This warm, fuzzy feeling can change in a matter of days!
Revolution and discontent can make strange bedfellows. What did Obama mean on an open microphone when he said to the president of Russia "well after the 2012 election I will have a lot more flexibility!" what kind of plot were they hatching?
Some people also assume the military would naturally side with the US government, this was not the case in the 1st secession, as most (who have read history books know) Robert E. Lee was given the chance to lead the Union Army and after a night of walking the floor decided to join the Confederacy. Jefferson Davis told his wife when he was asked to be the new President was the most depressing day of his life, a lot of people don't know he voted to NOT succeed!
Most of the National Guard units would most likely support their state (as did some of the Federal army units in Southern states). Finally there are many military soldiers and leaders that feel they are 'soldiers of the people' and many would side with the secessionists. Not all but many soldiers that have faced an enemy I have found, finds religion and becomes a lot less liberal! I know this first-hand.
I think there would be a lot less of these people making dumb, broad statements about this being impossible should take a few hours and dust off the history books, remember the cliche "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it!"

The government draws its power from the people. It is not an entity in and of itself. If these people don't have the right to secede if they want, then they are, at best, indentured servants.

That said, I do not believe that the states have a right to secede unless it is passed by a popular vote.

Edit: I don't really care what the Supreme Court says. They are merely another branch of government that draws their power from us. What the people want supersedes any decision that they may make.

The will of the people comes before any and all government bureaucracy. Period.

Originally posted by jacksmoke

Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave

edit on 13-11-2012 by jacksmoke because: (no reason given)

Look again

We the People

Someone put California on the list.

With so many states petitioning how bout we all just petition to kick D.C. OUT of the U.S. and we can stay as is?

We are just talking about secession hypothetically, right? We're not pointing to these absurd petitions as any indication of the sentiment of the majority of the people who live in these states, right?

Just as an example I looked at Massachusetts, which just got added, and I counted 87 signatures from other states, 25 from unnamed states and only 15 from Massachusetts. I stopped counting at that point. I haven't checked how many of the signatures are duplicates between the petitions but I expect it's a high majority.

Just want to make sure we're all clear that these petitions are not serious. If people are serious they should be petitioning their individual state governments. Several state representatives (Texas and NC) have already declared they have no intention of supporting the secession idea, so these petition signers would have to start a revolution within their respective states first. And given most people are not on the side of secession... Well maybe Texas and possibly Louisiana are motivated enough to want to do that but not the rest of the country... I mean that would be taking time away from American Idol!

So it's interesting to think about hypothetically but it's not anything that is going to happen based on what I'm seeing, and certainly would take a hell of a lot more time and effort from people than dashing off an e-signature on a website. All talk, no substance.

Originally posted by jacksmoke

Texas might have the financial capacity to support itself, but not at its current level. The only state that could is California and they arent gonna leave

edit on 13-11-2012 by jacksmoke because: (no reason given)

We absolutely have a good enough economy to support ourselves.
Yes, we are second to Cali in GDP but our economy is stronger, Cali is almost bankrupt right now.

reply to post by baddmove


Yes, yes! The United States of Texas.

reply to post by straddlebug


That would be The Republic of Texas

Originally posted by baddmove
It would look like this if they could...

Wisconsin would be orange.

"Go Home Flatlanders!" is the battle cry I remember.

I liked your idea of all the states kicking DC out (after all, it is not a state!) LOL!
We pretty much know no states are serious enough to go to war (maybe) but if nothing else this sends a message to the government that WE THE PEOPLE are not happy!
Maybe Obama's legacy: "Split the country"?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by jacksmoke

 

California? Ummmmm. Aren't they in massive debt?

And its not gonna get any better. I wish the initiative to split cali up into 2 states would have went somewhere a few years ago but alas, not enough support from the sheeple.

Moonbeam ran this state into the ground 20yrs ago but no one remembered that apparently cuz they elected him into office...AGAIN!! Dam attention span of gnats.

My .02¢

Silver

reply to post by Circumstance


Check out this link about revenue / spending by state

en.wikipedia.org...

Looks like cali, texas and ny at the very least could easily survive without the federal government's help. They generate more revenue than they receive I mean, so theoretically should be possible.

I don't think they'd succeed with their current attempt to secede. But if something were to happen that were at the level to cause the country to break down (WWIII or a big enough meteorite), I'd predict at least a 5-way split. The regional cultures are just that different such that if the central authority were gone it's likely they wouldn't put up with various "crap" from others for terribly long. (Trade and some common defense agreement may remain or be re-established, but it's likely not going to be the way it is now. It means there will be places to go which give you real options if you don't like certain laws. And new governments forming may be more responsive and responsible than the current bureaucratically bloated one.)

Even considering these signatures might mean something doesnt the state government have to make moves like this? My next door neighbor shouldnt be able to make a decision like that for the whole state. I doubt these petitions will amount to anything as even 25,000 signatures does not even tickel the population of Texas. This is a silly trend at the moment and some people are buying into it and think they can affect anything.

One would hope that the disolution of a country could not be accomplished by an e-signature.
You are seeing the kiddies throwing tantrums thats all. Next week they will hold their breath until they turn blue. The week after that they throw themselves to the floor and kick and scream. Eventually they will get over this and hey theres another election just around the corner ya know !