Papa John layoffs….Good!!!

no real loss in my book, i am not a fan of theirs, or pizza in general.
Its rare that we even eat out, not that we cant afford to, but i'm kind
of old school, i'd prefer to have a home cooked meal over junk food
any day.

But in the end, health care cost a fortune, there is a lot more that
goes along with hiring a employee than their wages. On average
from what i have seen you can take the wages a employee is paid
and at least double it, to come to the cost of what a employer pays
just to have that person work for them. Sure it sucks for the people
who got laid off, but in the end, its his business, hire people, fire people,
sell the whole thing, or just shut it down and walk away, he has that
option to do what ever he feels is best for the company.

Is it right? thats up to each person to see it as they do, but it is the owners
decision, and should be, because one of these days it could be you making
the decision, would you want anyone telling you what you can and cant do
with a company you spent years building? Probably not.

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Originally posted by jimmyx
funny how they can give away 2 million pizzas, but cannot give simple health care to their employees...i'll pay 15 cents more per pizza, so their employees can have health care, but, obviously that's not the owner's point, he's just a greedy 1 percenter, and represents the groupthink of that class of people

edit on 13-11-2012 by jimmyx because: spell

Since when is it an employer's responsibility to pay for an employee's health care? Employee health care is a BENEFIT, the same as vacation, education and personal time. That's it plain and simple.

since it's "we the people" of this country that control how a business is to be run...."we the people" allow you to make a profit, "we the people" set the rules and regulations that allow you to exist as a corporation or company. you follow the laws that are agreed upon by the citizens of this country. you do not tell "we the people" what "benefit" you will provide. america is democratic republic, not a plutocracy.

The points are being miss the here,
Who cares if this guy makes 15 or 60 million a year, what a person makes is own business it should not be public info. Maybe he got a lot more going on then you even know. The points are we all by into any hype we hear, and never care about what the reality of how the world works. Most people never look behind the curtains.
Anybody mad or boycotting papa john's...that's just beginning you'll have a lot more companies to boycott in the upcoming year as Obamacare kicks in.
I helped a friend run a construction business for years, before I got tired of the stress and quit. I did a lot cost estimating for jobs. People don't know or realize their own cost. Take a guy making 18 an hour. By the time you factor in taxes, workman’s comp, insurance (not on the person but for the company), personal insurance, non-billable people, and company over head we would have to bill out around 30 dollars an hour per a person to make a 2 dollar profit. We were doing good to make about a 20% profit on a job. So a million dollar job would make 200,000 in profits, IF ALL WENT WELL. Seem like a lot unless you’re the guy borrowing money from the bank by putting your house up for collateral and you have a lot riding on a jobs success. It’s constant stress trying get work and pay people and keep your companies head above water. This is the reality of most mid-size companies and they are the ones that’s squeezed the hardest. Then they forced to close or squeezed back. Neither is good for us.

reply to post by jimmyx


Your the person that doesn't care how a TV remote works. You never owned or ran a bussiness, yet making comments about how one should be ran. Nothing is free you want healthcare, it cost money, someone gotta pay for it. You pass the cost to companies, they will pass the cost back to you in one form or another.

reply to post by Tbrooks76


Are you campaigning for healthcare reform? Because healthcare costs are up 500% since 1986, but overall wages are flat to 1981.

A world where fewer and fewer people are able to afford basic healthcare over time is a world that cannot continue to exist. By definition, it is eating itself for profit.

reply to post by rgzing


too bad the rest of people don't get it.

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
I think that if you are given the right to run a BIG business in this country

We have rights, we aren't given our rights, genius.

The rest of what you said was more gibberish. It's his business, his property, and he can hire or fire whomever he wants. That's what ownership means.

/TOA

I don't think many consider a limited liability corporate charter to be a natural right. His business is given special privileges by the people. Whether it's in the best interest of the people to force him to provide health insurance is another question.

Originally posted by hezro

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
I think that if you are given the right to run a BIG business in this country

We have rights, we aren't given our rights, genius.

The rest of what you said was more gibberish. It's his business, his property, and he can hire or fire whomever he wants. That's what ownership means.

/TOA

I don't think many consider a limited liability corporate charter to be a natural right. His business is given special privileges by the people. Whether it's in the best interest of the people to force him to provide health insurance is another question.

Also: It's a franchise. It's main product is advertising and design for the restaurants participating. These designs are subject to various copyright laws.
So technicaly he is profiting from a government granted monopoly (And I really don't intend to start every post in this thread with "Also:", it just keeps happening)

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by Tbrooks76

 

Are you campaigning for healthcare reform? Because healthcare costs are up 500% since 1986, but overall wages are flat to 1981.

A world where fewer and fewer people are able to afford basic healthcare over time is a world that cannot continue to exist. By definition, it is eating itself for profit.

kind of point here, we have been shooting ourselves in the foot, and the solution is to keep doing it.

healthcare...ha ha ha, that an example of what's wrong, there is more than just that. I would campaign for people reform. We should have to take a comprehension test to allow people to vote. I bet if people were asked to name the branches of the government, haft would have to google it, or turn to the TV and hope a reporter tell them.

Papa Johns can do whatever he wishes...geez folks. Have we forgotten this is the land of the free already? And...it's a pizza place. If someone's "career" dreams were dashed cause they are now going to get less than 30 hours a week slinging dough for pizza...well...maybe it's time to look into other skills.

Yes...that means you might need to take advantage of some of those socialist programs...you know...tuition to go to a tech school or a trade school. No, you will not ever get rich with one of those jobs...but here is a rub...you will never get rich working for someone else anyway.

Papa John's said before the election that Obamacare was going to raise the price of pizza by something like 10 to 15 cents....hmmm...that's not even a 10 percent increase. (But...considering their pizza is crap, any price increase would be painful). He's also got the commercial "giving away" 2 million pizzas...hell...life must not be all that bad.

I really don't care what small businesses do. It's their business...not mine. The workers for these places need to accept what is happening and move right now to change the equation and stop being a victim. The choice is actually in the hands of the workers. They can cry that they have lost their "full time" benefits, or they can take matters into their own hands and seek to better themselves.

If I had my way, people should be able to start their own pizza joint (or any other small business) with relative ease....drop the regulations and certifications and licenses and let people do their best. Over regulation is just another form of cronysim intended to reduce competition.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by JIMC5499

Originally posted by jimmyx
funny how they can give away 2 million pizzas, but cannot give simple health care to their employees...i'll pay 15 cents more per pizza, so their employees can have health care, but, obviously that's not the owner's point, he's just a greedy 1 percenter, and represents the groupthink of that class of people

edit on 13-11-2012 by jimmyx because: spell

Since when is it an employer's responsibility to pay for an employee's health care? Employee health care is a BENEFIT, the same as vacation, education and personal time. That's it plain and simple.

since it's "we the people" of this country that control how a business is to be run...."we the people" allow you to make a profit, "we the people" set the rules and regulations that allow you to exist as a corporation or company. you follow the laws that are agreed upon by the citizens of this country. you do not tell "we the people" what "benefit" you will provide. america is democratic republic, not a plutocracy.

Never a better description of free-market capitalism has been posted here on ATS. I'm glad to see you support it. You do have the "you do not tell the people what benefits you will provide" a bit off, as the business is owned by private individuals who absolutely will or will not provide benefits such as health insurance or time off as they see fit. But you're getting there.

Again, I'm glad to see a supporter of free-market capitalism, as we're few and far between. After all, people seem to hate freedom, which is what capitalism provides.

/TOA

you know the original post said very little about papa john’s despite the title.
This is good example of following the idiot box!!!

Most people are complaining about the pizza joint, yet did anybody say about rgzing post?
here a guy saying is company is going to do the same (rightful so rgzing), where his variable abuse. He saying the same thing as Papa John.... oh wait the idiot box only told you complain about the pizza joint

I wish I owned a TV station I would start a rumor that jumping of a bridge was the latest and greatest thing to do.

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth



I would love to agree with you that it is indeed the employee's responsibility to provide for themselves because it should be true. BUT how can they do so when they are not being paid a wage that will allow them to buy a home, let alone pay for health insurance?

Then it is up to the individual employee to make themselves more marketable, through education, and obtaining skills that are valuable to employers.

Who says they have to buy a home? Whats wrong with renting?

Government has no constitutional authorization to be in the social safety net business. Never has been a function, nor should it ever be. It erases all thoughts of individual responsibility. Why try to better yourself when you know you have the taxpayers to fall back on?

The only people who are "screwed by their employers" are those who allow themselves to be. Businesses do not exist to enrich the lives of their employees, they are in business to make money, and when employing people becomes to expensive and detrimental to the bottom line, costs must be cut. It's a very basic business concept and certainly isn't difficult to understand.

Originally posted by jimmyx


since it's "we the people" of this country that control how a business is to be run...."we the people" allow you to make a profit, "we the people" set the rules and regulations that allow you to exist as a corporation or company. you follow the laws that are agreed upon by the citizens of this country. you do not tell "we the people" what "benefit" you will provide. america is democratic republic, not a plutocracy.

Wrong. Not just wrong, but ridiculously wrong.

First, the U.S. is a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, not a democratic republic. We have this thing called the Constitution. Have you ever heard of it? Obviously you have never read it.

In this Constitution, it places limits on governmental powers and specifies the few and limited roles the government has in our country.

Your understanding of this nation, it's history, and the very principles it was founded upon, is 100% wrong. It goes to show how uninformed people are, yet that never stops them from chiming in with their opinion, no matter how laughable & incorrect it may be.

The problem is a lot deeper than most are admitting here. Everyone is all upset that Papa Johns doesn't want to provide health care for its employees. But why should they? Let me explain.

Health insurance in this country has evolved as an employee benefit. Why? because employees, by and large, are healthy people. They are well enough to work. Insurance companies love to insure people through their work because that population is a healthy population to insure. It costs less.

Employees have grown to expect health insurance as a benefit of employment. They like it because it is tax free, so even if your employer is paying $700 per month for your insurance, that's $700 tax free dollars you neither have to see, spend, or pay taxes on. This has grown tremendously over the last few decades. When I first started working full time I made $930 per month. The health premium was $50 per month, which my employer paid, 1/18th of my salary. Today the same job pays probably $4,000 per month, and the health premium is $700, more than 1/6th of the salary. Employers have been absorbing the increases year after year and now everytime an employer says, "Say, we can't do this any more," the coddled employees scream bloddy murder.

Ironically, this whole system has contributed to raising the cost. For moet of my working life I never ever saw a bill. I broke my arm (above the elbow, clear through) which had to have cost thousands of dollars, and to this day I don't know how much it cost. So employees, not knowing, used their medical benefits in a cavalier fashion. They'd go to the emergency room for a cut finger.which cost $1000, but they didn't care one way or another. Today at least, most plans will send you an "Explanation of Benefits" so you, the empliyee, at least has a clue.That kind of use makes premiums go up.

Now Obamacare has dictated that even if you work less than full time, your employer still MUST pay full health care benefits for you. There is a threshhold for size of business, which Papa John's exceeds. And businesses are beginning to say, "No, I don't want to participate in such a draconian, totalitarian system." so they are opting out. And people here, predictably, are saying the employer OWES the employee health benefits.

No, they don't. You should never have been obtaining health benefits through your employer in the first place. You should have been obtaining health care through the open market, where you shopped for it and knew what you were buying, just as you do auto insurance. Instead you opt out of responsibility by letting your employee carry you. I know, that's the system, but that's what is wrong with the system.

This whole issue has broad implications in the small business sector, which Papa Johns is not. Businesses are choosing not to expand because expansion would put them over the employee threshhold for proving full coverage, resulting in no new jobs being created. THAT'S what's happening here and it is a good reason why the stock market dropped several hundred points after Obama's re-election.

And one more thing. The issue is about the FRANCHISEES, not the Papa John Corpoation. You people pointing out Papa John's profit last year are missing the point completely. Franchisees operate as independent restaurants. They are small businesses. THESE are the people affected.

reply to post by schuyler


Great points
see in my ideal world, you have passed the voting comprehension test

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


You don't piss me off. If you ever get the opportunity to run a BIG business, by all means run it any way you want to.

Originally posted by TheAngryFarm

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth



I would love to agree with you that it is indeed the employee's responsibility to provide for themselves because it should be true. BUT how can they do so when they are not being paid a wage that will allow them to buy a home, let alone pay for health insurance?

Then it is up to the individual employee to make themselves more marketable, through education, and obtaining skills that are valuable to employers.

Who says they have to buy a home? Whats wrong with renting?

Government has no constitutional authorization to be in the social safety net business. Never has been a function, nor should it ever be. It erases all thoughts of individual responsibility. Why try to better yourself when you know you have the taxpayers to fall back on?

The only people who are "screwed by their employers" are those who allow themselves to be. Businesses do not exist to enrich the lives of their employees, they are in business to make money, and when employing people becomes to expensive and detrimental to the bottom line, costs must be cut. It's a very basic business concept and certainly isn't difficult to understand.

Once more, I would love nothing more than to agree with you but you just do not get it. Have you ever rented a home? For most places around here you can expect to pay a monthly rent that rivals that of an average mortgage payment. Most of you people who are pro big business are anti social programs. How do you expect the nobody Papa Johns employees to pay their health insurance when they can't afford to pay rent and gas just to be Papa's slave and still not need those government forms of assistance just to "survive"? Lets not even talk about eating because poor people don't deserve that privilege.

Have you been outside lately? Education don't mean squat these days, not for my generation. I know four people who all have degrees with minors that they all thought would make them stand out in the eyes of HR. LMFAO! They are all under 30.

A man with a BS in management with a minor in psychology (3.8 GPA).
He works at Walmart for near minimum wage and no benefits because while he has applied for many jobs he gets few interviews and they all tell him that he does not have management experience so they cannot consider him.

A man with a BS in computer science and a minor in business management (4.0 GPA).
He works at Taco Bell right now because few people are hiring and of the interviews he has landed, they all scream experience as well.

A man with a masters degree in the digital media field, he also grabbed a minor in business management when he was working on his BS (3.7 GPA).
Presently working at a local factory because of the same reason as the guy with he computer science degree.

A woman with a masters degree in Accounting, she picked up a minor in political science. (4.1 GPA) Yes I said 4.1 GPA, it is very possible.
She currently works 2 jobs, one at Books a Million and one at a booth in the mall...

Every one of the above people worked while in college and the guy with the computer science degree did 4 years in the Navy before going to college. He still works at the Taco Bell he was working at while in school and was given a promotion to a lower management position about a year after finishing school. He claims to make less than $20,000 a year right now. None of them see over $20,000 a year and they all have roommates and drive a used vehicle and none of them have a fancy cell phone or anything like that that we see so many spoiled teenage offspring of the "middle class" running around with these days.

In my opinion all four of them did their part to obtain the skill that should make them valuable to employers yet the employers still whine about them needing experience that they are not willing to provide to them. You can't get experience if you aren't given a chance to get experience.

You can call it whatever you want but I have just provided you with proof that not everybody is a lazy worthless scum-of-the-earth pos as you seem to be convinced.

I do not believe that the average American's should have to spend more taxes to keep each other up because businesses refuse to pay fair living wages while their top executives and owners make much more in a single year than any one person could ever need in a lifetime. Even if they drop a few of those millions they still have millions...

I'll give you that I probably don't understand basic business concepts because I've only taken 2 college economics courses that I made As in but you have got to accept that it is truly immature for someone to whine about potential loss of income when you would still be making A LOT more than any average American.

Businesses want valuable assets, employees are assets, the healthier an employee, the more valuable that asset. It should not be governments job to provide that asset for you.

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth

Once more, I would love nothing more than to agree with you but you just do not get it. Have you ever rented a home? For most places around here you can expect to pay a monthly rent that rivals that of an average mortgage payment.

I have always rented my primary residence. I own a few acres of land and a small 2 bedroom cottage that I use as a vacation place, and more importantly, a place to fall back to when/if things get very bad. I have always rented my primary house for numerous reasons: Its more economical (no taxes, no costly maintenance, etc etc), I am not beholden to a big bank through a mortgage, and there is also no emotional attachment to it so I can walk away from it whenever I feel like it. Home ownership isnt a right, it is something you earn.

Most of you people who are pro big business are anti social programs.

I am pro constitution and pro limited government. Safety nets arent a constitutionally authorized expenditure.

Education don't mean squat these days, not for my generation. I know four people who all have degrees with minors that they all thought would make them stand out in the eyes of HR.

A college degree doesnt mean someone is educated, it means they showed up to enough classes, and did the bare minimum to pass the class. I'm talking about marketable skills that are in demand.

Managers are a dime a dozen in our current job market. Those with mad IT skills are in demand, so much so, that there is stiff competition for every job opening. If you owned a technology company and had 2 applicants for an opening, would you take the one who worked in the field for 4 years gaining real world experience, or the one who spent 4 years in school learning about stuff the other guy has been actually doing?

I own a small business, and I have a regular job to keep the bills paid while I grow my own business. I've never spent a minute on a college campus, but what I did do was make sure I had the skills to keep my job and make my employer think twice about me if it ever came down to laying people off or firing employees to cut costs.

I do not believe that the average American's should have to spend more taxes to keep each other up because businesses refuse to pay fair living wages while their top executives and owners make much more in a single year than any one person could ever need in a lifetime.

Ahhhhh, the living wage myth lol. Businesses have no obligation to pay anything more than the federally and in some cases state mandated minimum wage. They pay more to attract the better talent, or because someone possesses skills that could be beneficial to the company. Papa Johns workers arent paid more because they arent worth more. It's as simple as that.

I'll give you that I probably don't understand basic business concepts because I've only taken 2 college economics courses that I made As in but you have got to accept that it is truly immature for someone to whine about potential loss of income when you would still be making A LOT more than any average American.

The amount doesnt matter, the fact is that income is that persons/businesses property. Having government take more of your property and redistributing it to others goes against the very ideals this nation was founded upon.

Whether its 10 bucks or 10 million, I dont want the government taking more from me to subsidize the lives of others.

Using the figures stated on page 1, it would cost Papa Johns anywhere from 12-20% of their profit. Any businesses that hopes to remain successful would not want to part with 12-20% of their profit.

Would you give away 20% of your paychecks to subsidize someone else?

reply to post by Anundeniabletruth


Your post is screaming as to what not to do.
Companies hire part time to avoid paying benefits, and yet our solution is ask them to pay out more benefits.
That’s Stupid! That’s going to make it even hard to find a full time position.
We are pushing companies away then start b—ching when companies and jobs go away.
That’s why your friends aren’t finding jobs. Plus the fact some of the jobs you list are really stupid choices. Computer science, what tom, dick, and harry didn’t get that degree in the 90’s its an overran market, and digital media….tons of jobs there. BS in management…what’s there left to manage? We became a nation of consumers, the only left to manage is McDonalds and Walmarts .
And instead of being industry friendly, we just keep asking them to pay more and more, and running them off to china. China is going be sitting pretty here in a little while.