Iran vs USA History Video- Russia Today Reads ATS?

reply to post by NightFlight

So now it boils down to who threatened whom first?

Logically, existential threats from Iran's theocratic regime precedes Israel's threats to destroy their nuclear facilities.

Note the difference in the severity of the threat. Iran has been threatening Israel since the Iranian revolution. But since Ahmadinejad came into office, these treats have become constant, and are always of 'the zionist regime will be eliminated', which, since Zionist means Jewish, amounts to a threat against the very existence of the state of Israel.

And this is coming from a theocratic, authoritarian regime, against a liberal democracy.

Israel conversely only threatens to bomb it's nuclear facilities if they will not desist. Israel knows Iran's nuclear facilities are part and parcel to their larger aganda against Israel's existence.

Therefore, the threats are two different levels; one is a malevolent threat against another states existence, while the latter is a threat against the nuclear program of the state who makes the malevolent threats.

reply to post by dontreally

since Zionist means Jewish

Your logic is severely flawed. Not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are Jews but you already know this but you cannot resist a chance to spread your false anti Iran propaganda. It's Israel that threatens Iran on a weekly basis while Iran's rhetoric against Israel is of a defensive nature.

You have a bad habit of derailing threads with your religious extremism and you have been exposed as the peddler of false propaganda that you are.

The overthrow of Iran's Prime Minister was orchestrated by some good ol' boys named Kermit Roosevelt Jr. and Norman Schwarzkopf Snr.

Hmmm those names seem familiar to me you may think. Well they should...

Kermit Roosevelt Jr. was the grandson of former U.S President Theodore Roosevelt, while Norman Schwarzkopf was the father of General H. Norman Schwarzkopf who later became the commander of coalition forces during the Gulf War.

Schwarzkopf senior was under the auspices of the CIA and helped to train what later became SAVAK, the Iranian secret police.

That RT video should be watched more widely.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Not all Jews are Zionists

This is from google definitions:
Zionism: A movement for (originally) the reestablishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in Israel. Link

So what 'propaganda' am I spreading? The knowledge that Zionist regime means Israel as a Jewish state? If Iran wants the destruction of the 'zionist regime', that amounts to destruction of Israel - in name, culture, government, etc.

I don't give a flying # whether American Jews are for a Jewish state. Most Israelis are; it is against the UN charter to threaten another states national existence.

It's Israel that threatens Iran on a weekly basis while Iran's rhetoric against Israel is of a defensive nature.

Could you please go away? Do you not have any moral fiber left in you, or has it been expunged from your being through inveterate lying?

Israels threats are limited to Iran's nuclear programs. Irans threats - from a totalitarian, fundamentalist regime - are existential threats against Israelis existence.

religious extremism

What? Where did I mention anything about my religious beliefs in this thread?

The younger generations of Iran want a regime change. They keep getting stuck with elections where the current nonsense remains the same...rife corruption making our own western mafia groups seem like boy scouts

Iran's official news agency, announced that with two-thirds of the votes counted, Ahmadinejad had won the election with 62% of the votes cast, and that Mir-Hossein Mousavi had received 34% of the votes cast.There were large irregularities in the results and people were surprised by them, which resulted in protests gathering millions of Iranians in every Iranian city and around the world.

Many Iranian figures directly supported the protests and declared the votes were fraudulent. Among them, many film directors like Jafar Panahi (who was consequently banned from making movies for 20 years and condemned to 6 years imprisonment), Mohammad Rasoulof (also condemned to 6 years imprisonment), actors and actresses like Pegah Ahangarani (who was consequently imprisoned). Ramin Parchami (who was consequently condemned to one year imprisonment), sportsmen like the whole Iran national football team who wore green wristbands in their game against South Korea to support the movement

I don't mind it when people sort of kick the heels of the US and the west in general about how we are poking our nose too much into the middle east, and overstating threats..
But the sickening thing these idiots are doing is not just being anti-intervention, but they are being pro-corrupt goverrnment, they are a mouthpiece of the regime, cheerleaders of the ones whom are imprisoning their own for years on end because they made the mistake of speaking.

There can be no rational discussion with them (the journalist for instance). They are dirty and ugly, they stand for the abusers and entrench totalitarianism.
You won't hear them demand iran hold free and fair elections monitored by the international community, and whenever the youth come together to fight against their own government, you got these "people" coming forth demanding its the cia, that the youth are 100% either israeli or american agents, etc...

Many are brainwashed into the severe propaganda coming from the iranian theocracy, to the point of even cheering that they have censored and shut off internet access for the people...because..you know..israel.

Wrong side of history.

Not saying America or the west in general is great...I am speaking about the overt cheering of the dictatorship verses siding with the people themselves.

So ya...Go to Iran then...go wander around the neighborhood and get to know the people there. (I have known some iranians). Maybe these dizzy lunatics will eventually realize they are being little more than mouthpieces for the regime verses the voice of the people.

reply to post by dontreally

It's entirely propagandistic. And they will manipulate/exaggerate any information to help purvey that idea.

True for both sides. Difference is RT is doing it about us. Showing a side we don't hear from US. And showing things that don't get shown here like footage of the ongoing protests in EU, Arab Spring, banking, i.e., the Paper Misers.

The Western media carefully omits that from the daily infotainment. I got to go to a foreign news channel to get that? Shame on US. Of course they over exaggerate, and aggrandize, but hey at least they show an opposing view.

Would you omit the opposing view?

reply to post by dontreally

I swear to God your honor, he was going to hit me so I hit him back first.

Is that your threat logic of why we have to bomb Iran?

reply to post by dontreally

Israels threats are limited to Iran's nuclear programs.

Threatening to destroy a nuclear reactor? Thats the stupidest thing I ever heard. Nobody is going to destroy Iran's reactor.

Oh, good idea . Lets cause a meltdown in the region and contaminate everything and everyone.

Derp, Okay. It'lll be fun.

That plant is an asset. To the victors will go that spoil too. Aren't you tired of pulling the WMD card yet?

reply to post by dontreally


You and your kind make me sick.

You do not speak for me or my people. As a Jew I find your hatred towards Muslims repulsive and the spin that you ad to the hatred that you spew is very dangerous. I moved away from Israel many years ago and do not plan on returning until they get the Zionist extremists the heck out of there, hopefully via the Hague as they deserve to be tried for war crimes and punished to the fullest extent. I can tell that you are not a Jew by your inaccurate interpretations that you constantly spam the forums with and to be quite honest I am surprised you have not yet been banned since you are certainly here to fulfill an agenda.

Don't get all bent out of shape because state sponsored outlets such as RT and Press TV speak more truth than your beloved western media sources that you so blindly defend. Just accept it, Israel is an Apartheid state that practices genocide, believe me I have seen it first hand. You arm chair soldiers are what is wrong with the world today as you support these blood thirsty criminals and allow them to continue their crimes against humanity while you cheer from the sidelines ignorantly refusing to grasp the full context of the situation...it's very sad.

You keep saying how great Israel is and how holier than thou they are when it comes to the ME policy, well let me tell you my friend, you are either purposely lying or you are incredibly naive.

Here is an old clip before the illegitimate state of Israel was formed:



They lived in harmony until the Zionists came, but it's pointless to even mention this to you as you are too stubborn to even admit what Zionism is.

Shalom.

reply to post by intrptr

I swear to God your honor, he was going to hit me so I hit him back first.

So there's no basis for taking precautionary measures against an enemy who's seeking nuclear weapons?

You cannot compare this to a simple court case. You can call the police if you think someone is planning to hurt you. In international affairs, you approach the international arbitrator - the UN; but if they do nothing, you're morally required to do what you need to protect yourself.

reply to post by intrptr

Threatening to destroy a nuclear reactor?

The facilities are underground, which will serve to contain most of the fallout.

Israel attacked Iraq's Osirak facility, did that lead to a nuclear fallout nightmare? No, and those facilities were above ground.

reply to post by dontreally


Was replying to your response with quotes of years earlier Israeli threats to Pakistan over their nukes but ran across this, Mossad is in India trying to get the Indians to neutralize Pakistan's nuclear capability because of Pakistan's "instability".

pakobserver.net...

MOSSAD, or The Institute for Intelligence and Special Operations has a declared official policy among other acts of covert intelligence gathering beyond Israel’s borders; preventing the development and procurement of non-conventional weapons by hostile countries; preventing terrorist acts against Israeli targets abroad; developing and maintaining special diplomatic and other covert relations as well as planning and carrying out special operations beyond Israel’s borders.

That crazy Israel - willing to start anything - anywhere.

reply to post by Rabbi4Peace


Your ridiculous avatar suggests to me that you're neither Jewish, nor a Rabbi.

You do not speak for me or my people.

Fortunately, you don't speak for "your" people either.

I moved away from Israel many years ago and do not plan on returning until they get the Zionist extremists the heck out of there,

Zionist extremists? Let me guess, both the labor and likud, are 'zionist extremists' to you? What a ridiculous whitewashing of the very real differences.

If Israel is ever overrun by Muslims, and If I ever had the power, I would force you to move back. Just to see you eat your words, because apparently - according to your understanding of things - its not exploitative or unfair living under Muslims. Do you think the Shari'a will nix the Jizya for non-Muslims, i.e. You and your fellow Jews?

If Israel ever changed, its name would change, it's culture would change, and every Jew who wasn't religious would move to America, Canada or Australia, lest they be ok with the draconian restrictions on the freedoms a liberal democracy provides.

I can tell that you are not a Jew by your inaccurate interpretations that you constantly spam the forums with and to be quite honest I am surprised you have not yet been banned since you are certainly here to fulfill an agenda.

And what, pray tell, are you talking about?

RT and Press TV speak more truth than your beloved western media sources that you so blindly defend

I will always prefer a free media that operates independently from government to a state sponsored socialist media. Anyone who understands why that is, will agree with me.

. Just accept it, Israel is an Apartheid state that practices genocide, believe me I have seen it first hand.

And you're lying.

I have to give it up to corruptionexposed. He is nowhere near as obnoxious as you are.

Zionists came, but it's pointless to even mention this to you as you are too stubborn to even admit what Zionism is.

I gave you the definition of Zionism. It's a nationalist movement for a Jewish state in Israel. I don't even understand how you can challenge this.

I was amazed when US presidents said that Iran was a threat for America repeatedly. Us politicians think they are after the benefits of USA's allies ! but I say they are themselves USA's enemies !!!

reply to post by dontreally

So there's no basis for taking precautionary measures against an enemy who's seeking nuclear weapons?

But you're not advocating "precautionary measures". You promote nothing short of "Regime Change", i.e., change from "their" government to "ours".

You cannot compare this to a simple court case.

I'm not. You are.

You can call the police if you think someone is planning to hurt you. In international affairs, you approach the international arbitrator - the UN; but if they do nothing, you're morally required to do what you need to protect yourself.

The Un is not the "police". And trust me, they don't advocate invading nations to wage aggressive war. If you don't get satisfaction from a court decision does that give you the right to kick in your neighbors door and start shooting?

Originally posted by dontreally

If Israel is ever overrun by Muslims, and If I ever had the power, I would force you to move back. Just to see you eat your words, because apparently - according to your understanding of things - its not exploitative or unfair living under Muslims. Do you think the Shari'a will nix the Jizya for non-Muslims, i.e. You and your fellow Jews?

If Israel ever changed, its name would change, it's culture would change, and every Jew who wasn't religious would move to America, Canada or Australia, lest they be ok with the draconian restrictions on the freedoms a liberal democracy provides.

first of all no body in this world can understand and sympathize with those that want a religious government of their own but muslims !
this is true that many of muslims themselves have not religious and legitimate governments but Israel is really weired ! nobody in this world would believe that they know how to write Torah !!! middle easterns and especially Arabs are famous because of their hospitality. they welcomed some jews immigrants (extra to those that had been living in Palestine already) but this led to genocides against the residents for the stupid idea of Greater Israel
the corrupted Israel leaders do not want a country named Israel, not the all middle east !, but the all world, even they want to be God !!! and if they could they would persuade people to worship the "Golden Calf"
Israel is a project. it is not will of religious jews to be under a jew government !!!!

reply to post by intrptr

But you're not advocating "precautionary measures". You promote nothing short of "Regime Change", i.e., change from "their" government to "ours".

As saturnFX noted, the younger generations in Iran want regime change. But one of the peculiarities of a planned government like that in Iran, is that the government will never really allow themselves to be kicked out of government through free elections. Hence, 'regime change' will have to happen, whether you like it or not.

And since Iran is pursuing a suicidal agenda of seeking nuclear weapons despite international condemnation, they're only adding fuel to the need to help facilitate a regime change in that country.

What is with this cultural relativism, as if the fanaticism of Sayd Qutb, Ayatollah Khomeini, and the Iranian revolution, isn't a bad thing? As if women aren't suffering in Iran? If they were perhaps tolerant of the existence of a Jewish state, there wouldn't be so much difficulty, and Iran would be showing other's that there is nothing essentially problematical about the way they go about things. But they're not. They've adopted an essentially Sunni form of governance; they force women to wear Hijabs, they disallow them from walking in public after sundown without a male chaperone; and many other, anal details that govern the daily lives of Muslims.

Iran is creating a problem for the world, not Israel. Peace could be made with the Palestinians if Iran weren't propping up Hamas and Hezbollah with financial incentives.

If you don't get satisfaction from a court decision does that give you the right to kick in your neighbors door and start shooting?

If you didn't like my statement 'you cannot compare this to a court case', than stop using these sorts of examples as if they could be meaningfully related to international issues.

If Iran gets a nuclear bomb, were in a different territory. When Iran threatens Israels existence, Israel is sort of being pushed into a corner. They either do nothing, and so risk the possibility of a nuclear attack sometime in the future, or they do something about Iran's pursuit of a nuclear bomb.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by intrptr

 

Threatening to destroy a nuclear reactor?

The facilities are underground, which will serve to contain most of the fallout.

Israel attacked Iraq's Osirak facility, did that lead to a nuclear fallout nightmare? No, and those facilities were above ground.

There is no comparison to the last time. The reactor in Iraq was not fueled at the time.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Irans reactor is not underground, by the way.

www.bloomberg.com...

reply to post by maes2


How did that post get so many stars?

I can barely make out what you're saying.

You need to work on your english.

reply to post by votan


Who taught you history? The janitor?

In the USSR it didn't matter if you were rich or poor, unless you were in the ring of power at the top you would get the same punishment and even if you were in the ring of power somebody with a higher position than you would punish you. What you were describing is more like democracy.


BTW can we stop it with this communist paranoia? Its getting stupid.