Al Gore Gives Us About 90 More Years

Originally posted by jam321
I'm sitting in the clueless section. On one hand I can see how we are polluting our environment and on the other hand I can see where Mother nature is just doing her thing.

Measured responses are not allowed! You must be extreme in your position! How dare you understand that the goals of finding a better path, while tempered with the knowledge that our current situation is the "best", given the resources and technology available.

I would think that many who have not bought into the Al Gore theories hold a steady path of stewardship, but desire the next "big thing" in terms of energy production and consumption. I for one would love more nuclear power, but that is blasphemous to extremist. I would also like us to continue to utilize the known energy sources until such comes along.....blasphemous again. I would like use to be good stewards and in areas where we can cut back, do so; guess again....blasphemous! A level headed approach, regardless of the path we take will be decried in some manner or the next.

The climate is changing. I dont think it will be stopped.

The point is well made that its not a threat to the planet. Its probably not a threat to human species existence. (There are lots of us and we are spread widely).

What it is however is a threat to our current human civilisation.

We should be doing 3 things:

- Hardening national infrastructure. Shortening logistics tails for essential products. Ensuring water, food, power needs of the nation can be met indigenously.
- A wartime effort level of investment in clean energy research, aiming for true energy independence.
- Contingency planning for how we cope with the mass migrations and the wars that will occur when the people in poorer nations find their country which was once borderline habitable is now uninhabitable.

Its happening, whether its our fault or not is moot. Prepare to cope.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Al Gore and man made climate change have been dragged through the mud by every fossil fuel lobbyist and right wing "free market" think tank on the planet, and yet the evidence continues to mount and mount that this problem is in fact much worse than even the so-called "alarmists" had predicted.

While the usual disinformers have continued to obfuscate and politicize the science at every opportunity, actual climate scientists have been quietly and gravely re-calculating their previous assessments in the face of emerging new wild cards like permafrost melt and extreme weather.


If you want a good synopsis of what the latest diagnosis looks like, I recommend watching this 15 minute TED talk:





In short it goes like this:

- The initial goal was to limit man made warming to under 2 C.
- After 2 C, effects of global warming become dangerous and possibly irreversible.
- Some of the effects we expected after 2 C have already begun happening now.
- Since we've done virtually nothing to limit emissions thus far, we are currently more on track for a warming around 6 C by 2100.
- At 6 C (which is already insanely bad for human civilization), the likelihood of natural positive feedbacks becoming self-propelling "runaway" systems of their own is almost an absolute certainty. This has the potential to raise our global average temperature up to as high as 12 C.
- At 12 C, half of the worlds arable and livable land would be a completely uninhabitable climate wasteland, where average temperatures would be upwards of 75 degrees Celsius (170 F).

As for the question of whether this is all actually man made or just some natural cycle - this has already been brought up on ATS ad nauseum, but people really need to realize that "man made" climate change is not some wild baseless Liberal propaganda invented by Al Gore.

Radiative forcing due to Greenhouse Gases is a proven FACT. It was proven over 150 years ago. Global warming due to rising CO2 was first calculated and predicted over 100 years ago:

The Discovery of Global Warming

Meanwhile the physics are so basic and fundamental on this that 9 year olds easily demonstrate them in their science fair projects:





The fact is we absolutely 100% know greenhouse gases trap heat. We even know how much. And so we know this is having an effect on our climate - the only real question is how sensitive our climate is to that effect.

And all the evidence continues to grow that it's actually much more than we first thought.

reply to post by freedomSlave

Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by solarstorm
I'm really surprised you didn't consider the volatile behaviour of the Sun and how it plays into all this.

I agree and mars is also heating up as well I thought this was well known by now but I guess not. However I am sure al isn't ready to step off the multi billion industry he has help build up and say he was wrong or lying .

source national geographic 2007

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said. By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.

This link has been debunked so many times on ATS. The article pretty much debunks itself on the 2nd page:

The conventional theory is that climate changes on Mars can be explained primarily by small alterations in the planet's orbit and tilt, not by changes in the sun.

"Wobbles in the orbit of Mars are the main cause of its climate change in the current era," Oxford's Wilson explained.

National Geographic even mentions that the views of this one scientist are completely at odds with the rest, and that:

"the idea just isn't supported by the theory or by the observations."

Then they actually link to another one of their own articles that debunks this one:

Don't Blame Sun for Global Warming, Study Says



I understand everyone has a right to be skeptical of a subject as complicated and important as this, but the thing is anyone who wants to be a true skeptic here has to think critically and be careful not to just read the headlines, or cherry-pick data that supports only their initial pre-dispostions. That's how climate skeptics become "deniers".

There is so much propaganda about this on the internet, it's probably the single most abused topic out there as far as misinformation (and disinformation) go.

Every single "skeptic" talking point I have ever come across has turned out to be egregiously misrepresented, if not outright false, when you take the time to look at the full story:

Global Warming & Climate Change Myths

Al Gore's Carbon Credit Trading scam must be coming up short on cash this month. He's using faux-science and scare tactics to try to get more $$$ out of people and out of the governments. The dude is HEAVILY invested in 'green'. His portfolio must be down ....

Media Ignores Al Gores's Financial Ties To Global Warming

Depressing video. If thats correct we may as well write the obituary of our civilisation right now.

Certain doom for the majority.

I guess Algore is thinking we are doing a great job.

Back in 2006 he said we only had 10 years left.

Major adjustment from Algore.

www.rushlimbaugh.com...

Now, the last time I heard some liberal talk about "ten years" it was 1988, Ted Danson. We had ten years to save the oceans; we were all going to pay the consequences, which would result in our death. Now Al Gore says we've got ten years. Ten years left to save the planet from a scorching. Okay, we're going to start counting. This is January 27th, 2006. We will begin the count, ladies and gentlemen. This is just... You have to love these people -- from afar, and from a purely observational point of view.

Rush is right...as usual.

"C. I see nothing wrong with leaving our children and grandchildren clean water and fresh air. People hate the idea of borrowing on your children's futures with debt but seem to look the other way when we are polluting the world they will inherit from us."

and that's just the key, isn't it: can't change that? Can't change anything! People only see what they want to see because to implicate themselves is simply too much for them to cope with and would be downright inconvenient.

There isn't just a climate change here either, a massive societal swing is taking place; morals and respect are virtually things of the past, self is the only thing that matters, indulgence and possession reign supreme. People are disengaged with society and that will have just as disastrous an effect as climate catastrophe - put the two together and it's no prophesy to suggest that the planet is doomed. It will take a miracle to change these facts.

reply to post by justwokeup


It sure ain't pretty.


But at the same time, we can't be defeatists about it. Whatever the consequences - our generation is going to be judged by history as likely the most crucial in all of the human race.

We can either go down as self-involved, lazy, delusional, ignorant losers who # 'ed everybody in line behind us - or we can at least go down swinging, with some shred of redemption for the fact we did what we could, made whatever sacrifices necessary to salvage a better future for those that will really have to deal with the consequences of this.


Right now it looks like our legacy will certainly fall under option #1 - and that probably depresses me more than anything in this mess...

reply to post by solidguy


In 2006 Al Gore was saying we have ten years left to reverse course to prevent consequences further down the road (i.e. circa 2100).

It's now 2012 and in the video I posted above David Roberts says we have about 5-10 years. So the narrative has hardly changed.



Seriously - anyone who is actually on the fence about this issue, just step back and look at the debate for what it really is:

On the one side you have the world's leading scientists. On the other you have Rush Limbaugh. You decide.

I just wanted to thank everybody for contributing their points of views and information. So far it's as I suspected, that many have varying information and opinions.

reply to post by SLAYER69


The proof of the pudding is in the eating...

If many people just can't, or even won't believe the science - or if they insist on calling scientists liars or connivers, I imagine the next ten years might get their attention

Kinda makes all the political and religious squabbling seem even more ridiculous than it does ordinarily

At this point - I'm not sure that all this debating, arguing and fighting isn't just rearranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic

Originally posted by mc_squared
reply to post by solidguy

 

In 2006 Al Gore was saying we have ten years left to reverse course to prevent consequences further down the road (i.e. circa 2100).

It's now 2012 and in the video I posted above David Roberts says we have about 5-10 years. So the narrative has hardly changed.



Seriously - anyone who is actually on the fence about this issue, just step back and look at the debate for what it really is:

On the one side you have the world's leading scientists. On the other you have Rush Limbaugh. You decide.

I Haven't followed Global warming for years because I do feel Al Gore is a Scam artist. (Not saying all Global warming supporters are though) He Buys Carbon credits from HIMSELF. Then tells America to do the same.

But I thought the majority of scientists and Meterologist Dismiss Al Gores theories on global warming and it's cause.

This was the Case back in 2006. Global Warming was beat up on so much infact that they renamed it to "Climate Change".

Its got me thinking. Assuming we do our usual and don't act when its still relatively easy, it makes you wonder if we will end up trying to terraform the earth to maintain/restore it to habitable conditions,

This reaction makes graphite and water from combining C02 with hydrogen.

en.wikipedia.org...

It requires iron (which is plentiful) and energy. As always, better energy production methods are the key.

Ok but second page of that aritcle from national geographic says

Sun Not Off the Hook for Warming The authors and other experts are quick to point out that more complicated solar mechanisms could possibly be driving climate change in ways we don't yet understand.

There are scientist on both sides of the fence . . Fear is also a great motivator to keep many scientist in line .

Also there is billions of dollars people pay that get conned into thinking buying green will help . If they were wrong do you think there will be pressure from any governing body to stop this practice of a billion dollar industry?

Originally posted by freedomSlave
Also there is billions of dollars people pay that get conned into thinking buying green will help . If they were wrong do you think there will be pressure from any governing body to stop this practice of a billion dollar industry?

AND....

Trillion dollar industry to keep things as they are....

The planet goes through violent cycles...it always has and it always will. Does that mean we ignore it? Or....should we make plans to confront things head to head.

If you do any reading at all into paleo-climatological data...you will see we have been a blessed species for the last 50,000 years or so. The earth is generally a terribly violent place...and ever since Toba blew about 70,000 years ago...we have been pretty lucky. This "calm" is what has allowed our species to flourish and grow. It is...however...just a part of a gigantic cycle.

Is man contributing to the acceleration of this phenomena? Maybe...but irrelevant...the world changes and has always changed. We have gone from temperate climates in Antarctica (where trees and temperate forest grew) to snowball earth...it will always be this way.

People really need to look into the major solar cycles that we are just now learning about. They are called "the grand maximum" and the "Maunder minimum". We very well might be entering one of these multi-century cycles of reduced solar activity...aka...the Maunder Minimum. This attributed to what is called the "little ice age" and "the year without a summer". There was a volcanic eruption in there that spewed aerosols and allowed for further cooling...but make no mistake about it...this old rock has had extreme patterns before us and will have many during and after us.

If we learn nothing else, we need to learn to look at cycles and plan accordingly. IF the midwest droughts are going to be a repeating pattern...we need to plan for that by building reservoirs and water retention facilities...with a means of distribution. If extreme storm along the coasts are going to be the new norm...we ned to stop being stupid....plan accordingly. Stop blowing good money to rebuild your summer home 5 times in a row....that pisses me off more than anything...use you brain.

I do not support the stupidity of others. If mother nature raped your summer beach house once...I can accept that. if you rebuild on that footprint and it happens again...you are a moron. Take your money and build elsewhere....I can be cool with helping someone once...i can almost say..."Ok...we can do this twice"...but if it happens a third time...your losses are yours...I refuse to pay for stupidity.

The first thing we need to do is remove Politics from science.

They want carbon tax and financial manipulation for global control. Not for the good of the planet.

It was "Global Warming" until they couldn't make that stick. Then it was climate change.

Hell, any caveman watching a glacier melt 10,000 years ago could tell you that climate is changing.

We need to get political extremes out of the picture and get a DIRECTION.

Adapt to the environment in the most efficient and economic way possible. Make measured changes over time using a plan that isn't designed to crash industries and destitute populations.

Get billionaire Gore, big oil and green energy debacles like Solyndra out of the way.

We can utilize green energy but maybe we should try doing it as a common sense exercise instead of a "screw you" crusade.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by freedomSlave
Also there is billions of dollars people pay that get conned into thinking buying green will help . If they were wrong do you think there will be pressure from any governing body to stop this practice of a billion dollar industry?

AND....

Trillion dollar industry to keep things as they are....

Exactly

Look at all the expanding they are doing in the oil sands in Alberta







I find this one rather disgusting with scale of it all .

If they could use half of that to research and develop couldn't we as a race on this planet come up with something better than fossil fuel in well over 100 years of the combustion engine and refining . Until people start parking their cars nothing will change . We are far to dependent on oil probably the greatest down fall of man kind .

My Archaeology prof. only gives us roughly 150 years depending on the scenario.

Scenario 1: We become trans human as we create smaller and smaller processors at cheaper cost. Allowing us to become one with our tools and hopefully blast off into space. (or as he likely sees it, kill each other off enough so that only roughly one billion people inhabit the earth.)
Scenario 2: We don't adapt quickly enough to our changing planet and we die. Or we kill each other off in thermonuclear wars.
Scenario 3: We learn to work together for the good of our species, we learn to sail the seas of space and expand. However, he has stated that this likely will not work as our species never has been good at getting along with there neighbors.

I side somewhere in between scenario 1 and 2. With how anti-communal we are becoming, it does not take much to the see a negative and definite end to our species. Which isn't a big thing, the Earth is relatively young and would rebound quickly in geologic time.