Dr. Semir Osmanagich Regarding Pyramids Found All Over the World

Originally posted by Pilot
When people give up their lives for political reasons it's usually because they have been lied to.

Bravo.

Thanks to alternative history, I understand that now.

There are 100,000 pyramids in Mesoamerica: Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Belize.

The following is from the book Pyramids Around the World by Dr. Semir Osmanagich, published 2012 by The New Era Times Press, Chapter 13 "The Mysterious Pyramids of Mayan Civilization," regarding Mexico:

Inside the pyramid of Kukulkan is a system of corridors that lead to temples that were built earlier. In one room there is a statue of a jaguar. The body is made of red stone. His eyes are made of green jade (nephrite). The explanation for the origin of these semi-precious stones creates a problem. In fact, there are no deposits of nephrite in Mexico. The closest deposits are …in China (?!). The official history does not recognize the existence of contacts between China and Mexico a few thousand years ago. But there is no doubt that there was a communication of these continents much further into the past.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

There are 100,000 pyramids in Mesoamerica: Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Belize.

The following is from the book Pyramids Around the World by Dr. Semir Osmanagich, published 2012 by The New Era Times Press, Chapter 13 "The Mysterious Pyramids of Mayan Civilization," regarding Mexico:

Inside the pyramid of Kukulkan is a system of corridors that lead to temples that were built earlier. In one room there is a statue of a jaguar. The body is made of red stone. His eyes are made of green jade (nephrite). The explanation for the origin of these semi-precious stones creates a problem. In fact, there are no deposits of nephrite in Mexico....

A moment spent to check would have revealed to you that you've been lied to here.

Nephrite is found in Turkestan, Myanmar, Siberia (dark green rocks with black spots), Russia, China, New Zealand, Australia (black stones), USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Taiwan, Zimbabwe (dark green), Italy, Poland, Germany and Switzerland.

Source
Don't like wiki? Okay:

General Information

Source: Canada, United States, Mexico, and Australia are major world producers. Other sources world-wide.

Chemical: Ca2(MgFe)5(Si4O11)2 a calcium magnesium, iron silicate.

Formation: Igneous rocks

Source
Or:

Nephrite (Jade)

Hardness
6 - 6.5

Occurrence
Alaska, Mexico, New Zealand, Siberia, and Turkestan

Nephrite Jade

Of course, that assumes that you have some curiosity on the subject, and apparently you do not.

It's likely that you either don't know, or don't care to remember, that Osmie was caught red-handed lying about his little Bosnian operation not long after he announced his bogus "find" to the world.

He claimed that several scientists (he listed them by name) were associated with the dig and, to a man, they later all came out and said they'd never even heard of him.

Funny you should mention Robert Schoch. When Schoch went to investigate, he first did a short inspection of one of the tunnels. The next day he went back to the same tunnel but now, miraculously, some "glyph" was carved on a wall that wasn't there the day before.

After Schoch left, Osmie published a lie about what Schoch said and found on his inspection and again was called on it by Schoch when he found out.

Obviously, you didn't want to know about this, given the way you ignore every, single logical objection to the idiocy in Bosnia. But I thought others here just might want to know what kind of disinformation you've chosen to spread, trying to pass it off as if it were factual.

Harte

Originally posted by Mary Rose

There are 100,000 pyramids in Mesoamerica: Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Belize.

The following is from the book Pyramids Around the World by Dr. Semir Osmanagich, published 2012 by The New Era Times Press, Chapter 13 "The Mysterious Pyramids of Mayan Civilization," regarding Mexico:

This same material is also in his book The World of the Maya, as Harte noted above.....one question how come he says 'red stone' but 'knowns' the eyes are nephrite? How did he do that?

Link to osmie's book

Seems he did some copy and paste of material - his own of course but to put the same material into another book??

Since you are quoting from his books here's one, he writes and then answers himself:

Does this suggest that the Maya ended up in an alternative dimension when they mysteriously disappeared in the 10th century?

Yes.

Well other than the fact the Maya are still there its a GREAT theory, lol. I think he should go back to Mexico and Guatamala and tell all the Mayan tribes living in the area that they really aren't there...

kennes,

I am reading an article entitled "The Harmonic Conquest of Space" by Bruce Cathie. It dates from 1994 and originally appeared in Nexus Magazine. I have never heard of this person before or the research this article explains. But it sounds similar to your work and I'm wondering whether there could be a connection?

A short excerpt:

I had a hunch that this could be the point I was looking for, upon which to orientate a world grid—if in fact one existed. I spent some time constructing grid patterns on a plastic ball until I found a system which could be transferred onto the world surface and aligned with the aerial-type object and the section of the grid discovered over New Zealand. I found that the patterns matched, and felt sure then that a global system was almost a certainty.

I got the idea to google the person's name from a book that I have entitled The Pyramids and the Pentagon: The Government's Top Secret Pursuit of Mystical Relics, Ancient Astronauts, and Lost Civilizations by Nick Redfern.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I am reading an article entitled "The Harmonic Conquest of Space" by Bruce Cathie.

I see now that this is a book published August 1, 1998 by Adventures Unlimited Press.

The image on Amazon:

Originally posted by Pilot

When people give up their lives for political reasons it's usually because they have been lied to. Competing theories in archaeology and the politics surrounding them is interesting to lay people but I don't see the harm in indulging "fringe" (that word you love to throw around) theories. You just always have to be right.

No I'm wrong all the time, ask my wife. Sure you can 'indulge' in fringe, I certainly do but in Osmie's case his actions are having a real world effect. But you didn't address the point, why would archaeologists world wide buy into a world wide conspiracy to hide stuff ? Considering I've never met an Archaeologist who has come across this type of conspiracy, one wonders how it operates and if it did exist why they wouldn't just expose it? One wonders eh?

I come here specifically for fringe topics, if I wanted mainstream crap I'd go look at Nat Geo.

Go to the other websites that ban disagreement, easy. At ATS the motto is 'deny ignorance' not accept it without a murmur

Here at ATS you can go to

Metaphysics

Why do you always spoil every AC thread with your puffed up self-regard?

You mean placing evidence out that contradicts the nonsense put out as 'truth' by others? Yep guilty as charged

You bore me.

Ah to bad, I find you hilarious!

You and your pals could make threads that are interesting yourselves instead of attacking the fringe. The fringe is the fringe, harmless, like unicorns and rainbows, why can't we wildly speculate without the thought police cluttering the cue?

Again this fringe has real world implications. Osmie is destroying actual archaeological sites, wasting money and putting out BAD science, why should anyone want to allow him to continue to lie? Mary seems to think this is all real - don't you Mary?

Why?

Noted above

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Mary Rose

There are 100,000 pyramids in Mesoamerica: Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, and Belize.

The following is from the book Pyramids Around the World by Dr. Semir Osmanagich, published 2012 by The New Era Times Press, Chapter 13 "The Mysterious Pyramids of Mayan Civilization," regarding Mexico:

Inside the pyramid of Kukulkan is a system of corridors that lead to temples that were built earlier. In one room there is a statue of a jaguar. The body is made of red stone. His eyes are made of green jade (nephrite). The explanation for the origin of these semi-precious stones creates a problem. In fact, there are no deposits of nephrite in Mexico....

A moment spent to check would have revealed to you that you've been lied to here.

Nephrite is found in Turkestan, Myanmar, Siberia (dark green rocks with black spots), Russia, China, New Zealand, Australia (black stones), USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Taiwan, Zimbabwe (dark green), Italy, Poland, Germany and Switzerland.

Source
Don't like wiki? Okay:

General Information

Source: Canada, United States, Mexico, and Australia are major world producers. Other sources world-wide.

Chemical: Ca2(MgFe)5(Si4O11)2 a calcium magnesium, iron silicate.

Formation: Igneous rocks

Source
Or:

Nephrite (Jade)

Hardness
6 - 6.5

Occurrence
Alaska, Mexico, New Zealand, Siberia, and Turkestan

Nephrite Jade

Of course, that assumes that you have some curiosity on the subject, and apparently you do not.

It's likely that you either don't know, or don't care to remember, that Osmie was caught red-handed lying about his little Bosnian operation not long after he announced his bogus "find" to the world.

He claimed that several scientists (he listed them by name) were associated with the dig and, to a man, they later all came out and said they'd never even heard of him.

Funny you should mention Robert Schoch. When Schoch went to investigate, he first did a short inspection of one of the tunnels. The next day he went back to the same tunnel but now, miraculously, some "glyph" was carved on a wall that wasn't there the day before.

After Schoch left, Osmie published a lie about what Schoch said and found on his inspection and again was called on it by Schoch when he found out.

Obviously, you didn't want to know about this, given the way you ignore every, single logical objection to the idiocy in Bosnia. But I thought others here just might want to know what kind of disinformation you've chosen to spread, trying to pass it off as if it were factual.

Harte

edit on 12/4/2012 by Harte because: (no reason given)

Wiki is not the place forr this kinbd of answer.

Let's just suppose that the jade was from China and that alternative sources of jade are not it. Gemologists have no trouble ascertaining the origins of crystals. They vary greatly depending on the region and the mine. The way they are formed depends on specific geological conditions. Green Jade, of course is no exception. I know for a fact that half the countries you listed do not produce any green jade at all (just don't know about the other half). What they dig up is not marketed the same because it is too poor of quality. China is famous for it's green jade. South America is reputable for a number of gems but not jade.

That is why the discovery was a genuine rarity. Jade in ancient times was favored by the Chinese. Here is an ancient finding ... of jade.

You're really clutching at straws

reply to post by Hanslune


I take back part of what I said, you don't REALLY bore me.

You asked the question why would archaeologists world wide hide something... I never said they did. I know a little of how it works, competing theories go through review processes, etc. One theory may dominate for decades before it is reevaluated and either discarded or amended. Generally speaking. These fringe theories are just theories. Just like mainstream academic THEORIES. Since it is all theoretical anyway, and certainty in any soft science ought to be avoided, what is the real harm? If a fool and his money are soon parted, what do you care? I have no opinion about the Bosnian pyramid BTW. If the truth impossible to know, how can you defend or attack any theory? Why grasp for a conclusion?

Why?

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Wiki is not the place forr this kinbd of answer.

Only a problem if you decided to ignore the other sources.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say, that you are ignoring the other sources!

Originally posted by bowtomonkeyLet's just suppose that the jade was from China and that alternative sources of jade are not it. Gemologists have no trouble ascertaining the origins of crystals. They vary greatly depending on the region and the mine. The way they are formed depends on specific geological conditions. Green Jade, of course is no exception. I know for a fact that half the countries you listed do not produce any green jade at all (just don't know about the other half). What they dig up is not marketed the same because it is too poor of quality. China is famous for it's green jade. South America is reputable for a number of gems but not jade.

That is why the discovery was a genuine rarity. Jade in ancient times was favored by the Chinese. Here is an ancient finding ... of jade.

Beyond ignoring the sources I gave, you're even ignoring what Mary posted - the quote from Osmie in which he stated:

In fact, there are no deposits of nephrite in Mexico....

Now, I wouldn't expect the average person to know what nephrite is, but it is a type of jade. And it's green, and it's mined in every country I listed. But it's not the type you refer to, which is called jadeite.

While knowledge of the various jades isn't to be expected from the general public, information on the internet about it is easily available so it is expected that, before a poster puts foot in mouth, that poster would at least fact-check his own ignorant ramblings.

Originally posted by bowtomonkeyYou're really clutching at straws

Really? Who's "clutching" here? Is it me, who provided factual information that flies in the face of a bogus claim made by an ex-sheet metal salesman from Texas that pretends to know something about a past that never existed, or is it you, who posts comments like that before even understanding the point you are attacking?

Osmie lied about nephrite in Mexico. That is what I stated. That is what I've shown right here in this thread to be the case.

Here. Maybe you'll like this. You might be able to squeeze a little wiggle room out of it for the liar that is leading you (and many other uneducated people) around by the nose:

Knowledge of the source or sources of Mesoamerican jade was lost following the upheavals of the European conquest and remained a mystery as late as the 1950s. Since jade artifacts are distributed widely in Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean, for a century or more people have searched for sources over a large area, even speculating that the raw material originated in Asia. Finally, in 1952 a sample rock found near the small town of Manzanal, Guatemala, in the central valley of the Rio Motagua, was identified as jade. Further investigation revealed a nine-mile-long zone on the north side of the valley, paralleling the highway leading to the Atlantic coast, that was mined for jade in prehistoric times and can still yield commercially useful amounts.

Source: link

It's been found that not all Mayan jade (nephrite) came from that prehistoric mine.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

Wiki is not the place forr this kinbd of answer.

Only a problem if you decided to ignore the other sources.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say, that you are ignoring the other sources!

Originally posted by bowtomonkeyLet's just suppose that the jade was from China and that alternative sources of jade are not it. Gemologists have no trouble ascertaining the origins of crystals. They vary greatly depending on the region and the mine. The way they are formed depends on specific geological conditions. Green Jade, of course is no exception. I know for a fact that half the countries you listed do not produce any green jade at all (just don't know about the other half). What they dig up is not marketed the same because it is too poor of quality. China is famous for it's green jade. South America is reputable for a number of gems but not jade.

That is why the discovery was a genuine rarity. Jade in ancient times was favored by the Chinese. Here is an ancient finding ... of jade.

Beyond ignoring the sources I gave, you're even ignoring what Mary posted - the quote from Osmie in which he stated:

In fact, there are no deposits of nephrite in Mexico....

Now, I wouldn't expect the average person to know what nephrite is, but it is a type of jade. And it's green, and it's mined in every country I listed. But it's not the type you refer to, which is called jadeite.

While knowledge of the various jades isn't to be expected from the general public, information on the internet about it is easily available so it is expected that, before a poster puts foot in mouth, that poster would at least fact-check his own ignorant ramblings.

Originally posted by bowtomonkeyYou're really clutching at straws

Really? Who's "clutching" here? Is it me, who provided factual information that flies in the face of a bogus claim made by an ex-sheet metal salesman from Texas that pretends to know something about a past that never existed, or is it you, who posts comments like that before even understanding the point you are attacking?

Osmie lied about nephrite in Mexico. That is what I stated. That is what I've shown right here in this thread to be the case.

Here. Maybe you'll like this. You might be able to squeeze a little wiggle room out of it for the liar that is leading you (and many other uneducated people) around by the nose:

Knowledge of the source or sources of Mesoamerican jade was lost following the upheavals of the European conquest and remained a mystery as late as the 1950s. Since jade artifacts are distributed widely in Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean, for a century or more people have searched for sources over a large area, even speculating that the raw material originated in Asia. Finally, in 1952 a sample rock found near the small town of Manzanal, Guatemala, in the central valley of the Rio Motagua, was identified as jade. Further investigation revealed a nine-mile-long zone on the north side of the valley, paralleling the highway leading to the Atlantic coast, that was mined for jade in prehistoric times and can still yield commercially useful amounts.

Source: link

It's been found that not all Mayan jade (nephrite) came from that prehistoric mine.

Harte

edit on 12/5/2012 by Harte because: (no reason given)

I think you have given yourself a lot of license with your "facts". Most of the countries you've added as examples do not produce green jade. You may like to call it nephrite but this is an inaccurate term.

The only supporting evidence that you have given is

nine-mile-long zone on the north side of the valley, paralleling the highway leading to the Atlantic coast, that was mined for jade in prehistoric times and can still yield commercially useful amounts.

"can still yield commercially useful amounts of "jade" This is what I call clutching at straws, but I give 8/10 for making a long winded post with spurious quotes and misleading evidence, plus what I now see as your usual bragging in the name of science, which, all in all, makes it seem more authoritative than it is.

The expectation that the "green jade" (a highly recognizable and rare gem variety) being of Chinese origin is reasonable. I don't think your proof counters the claims made. In fact your sources reveal that it has long been assumed that jade in Sth America is from Asia.

The image on Amazon:

The Book Description on Amazon:

Bruce Cathie's first book, Harmonic 33, was first published in 1968 when he was a commercial pilot in New Zealand. Since then Captain Bruce Cathie has been the premier investigator into the amazing potential of the infinite energy that surrounds our planet every microsecond. The Harmonic Conquest of Space contains all new material and further explores the concept that the earth is criss-crossed by an electromagnetic grid system that can be used for anti-gravity, free energy, levitation and more. Chapters include: Mathematics of the World Grid; the Harmonics of Hiroshima and Nagasaki; Harmonic Transmission and Receiving; the Link Between Human Brain Waves; the Cavity Resonance between the Earth; the Ionosphere and Gravity; Edgar Cayce - the Harmonics of the Subconscious; Stonehenge; the Harmonics of the Moon; the Pyramids of Mars; Nikola Tesla's Electric Car; the Robert Adams Pulsed Electric Motor Generator; Harmonic Clues to the Unified Field; and more. Also included in the book are tables showing the harmonic relations between the Earth's magnetic field, the speed of light, and anti-gravity/gravity acceleration at different points on the Earth's surface.

Bruce Cathie's work points in the same direction as the cutting-edge scientific research going on to explain the mysteries surrounding pyramids found all over the world.

An interview of Bruce Cathie:

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

I think you have given yourself a lot of license with your "facts". Most of the countries you've added as examples do not produce green jade.

You saying you need more pictures of green nephrite?

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
You may like to call it nephrite but this is an inaccurate term.

Perhaps not you, but surely others have noticed (because I linked some of them) that gemology websites all over the internet use the term nephrite for that particular type of jade, as did Osmie in Mary's quote.

I claimed that nephrite has been found in Mexico and other places. I provided information to back up my statement. You, on the other hand, wave a hand and state that I'm wrong, and provide nothing but your "feeling" to back up yiour statement.

Now THAT'S "clutching at straws."

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
The expectation that the "green jade" (a highly recognizable and rare gem variety) being of Chinese origin is reasonable. I don't think your proof counters the claims made.

"You don't think...?" Yes you do, you just don't think correctly. Again, you're talking here about gem quality jadeite. Gem quality jadeite comes almost exclusively from Burma (Myanmar), as I understand it. However, jadeite has been found in other areas, including Mexico, but just not the high quality stuff.

There's a map on this page that will show that you simply don't have any idea what it is you're talking about.

But jadeite is beside the point, as Osmie claimed that the Mayan nephrite couldn't have come from the area. Nephrite is not jadeite.

Originally posted by bowtomonkey
The expectation that the "green jade" (a highly recognizable and rare gem variety) being of Chinese origin is reasonable. I don't think your proof counters the claims made. In fact your sources reveal that it has long been assumed that jade in Sth America is from Asia.

Apparently, you missed the part in my link that stated that some researchers, back in the 1950's, suggested that it may have come from Asia. Nobody on Earth (but you and Osmie) "assumes" such a thing, nor has any knowledgeable person ever "assumed" such a thing. Speculated, yes. "Assumed," no.

Harte

reply to post by Pilot


Why not?

Generally speaking. These fringe theories are just theories. Just like mainstream academic THEORIES. Since it is all theoretical anyway, and certainty in any soft science ought to be avoided, what is the real harm? If a fool and his money are soon parted, what do you care? I have no opinion about the Bosnian pyramid BTW. If the truth impossible to know, how can you defend or attack any theory? Why grasp for a conclusion?

Archaeology is a semi-soft science, it has hard facts but many of the conclusions are 'soft'. As noted before some theories are more equal that others. I do have an opinion of the Bosnian hills, based on the evidence they are not pyramids. For this question you can look at the hard science of geology and it quickly disperses the idea of a man made pyramid....which is why in the 2012 report Osmie is going from man built to man modified, which requires a much lesser degree of evidence to prove and going all out with new age stuff

reply to post by Harte




By the way this is what Osmie is talking about I thought the lurkers would like to see it

reply to post by Hanslune


Thank you for your response. It is not in my nature to attempt to sway anyone to my way of thinking, I prefer to try to understand why people believe what they believe and measure that against my own understanding of a particular subject. I can't think of any area of study or experience that I feel that I am an expert. I make an effort not to come to conclusions because often my conclusions have changed with further investigation. I have a feeling that will always be the case and will not waste effort defending a position. Wishy washy? Busted. There is freedom in it, not coming to conclusions. The world stays wide open. Maybe the only position worth defending is no position at all.

You keep the discussions lively, I'll say that for you.

reply to post by Pilot


I've always found the best way to procede is to place one theory'as the 'main contender' - then try to knock it down or replace it with another - instead of having a host of conflicting theories with none being paramount- unless it is, as you say, in an area I have no expertise in then I leave it as seething mass of contradiction!

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Harte

 

By the way this is what Osmie is talking about I thought the lurkers would like to see it

That's the Jaguar Throne, right?

Osmie said "statue," so I wasn't sure.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I presume that is what he is talking about like most Maya pyramids it was built over an earlier version, to get to the temple with throne you had to go down stairs, I remember the throne but not a statue but that was in the summer of '74, my initial thought was that I had seen it in a museum......

Originally posted by Pilot
It is not in my nature to attempt to sway anyone to my way of thinking, I prefer to try to understand why people believe what they believe and measure that against my own understanding of a particular subject.

I don't think any of us should try to sway anyone, because all that does is make the other person dig in their heels.