A Possible Solution To Finally Put Roswell To Rest Sans UFO/Aliens

I do not even consider that a UFO crashed near Roswell and that bodies were recovered. I do not give any credence to anything written about Roswell by authors Charles Berlitz, William Moore, Stanton Friedman, Kevin Randle, Don Schmitt, Don Berliner, or by any author who promotes what is really a myth. Nothing that they wrote, pro-UFO crash/aliens, is supported by historic facts. My opinion runs counter to the accepted norm because I am not a believer and it is so much easier to accept the original reports than rely on manufactured lies perpetuated by greedy authors who have contempt for the truth. Even when they realize that what they've written is erroneous they don't have the decency to admit but try to work it so that what they present contains sanitized "truth". They continue to get away with their "patented" lies because the public does not want to accept that what was found had a simple explanation. If it hadn't been for overzealous public information officer 1st Lieutenant Walter G. Haut, who issued the erroneous press release, Roswell would have remained just another name on maps. But he paid a price for his big mouth!

What the Roswell UFO Crash syndrome means is best charaterized by the phrase "retrospective falsification", coined by D.H. Rawcliffe, which means that an extraordinary story is told, then retold with embellishments and remodeled with favorable points emphasized while unfavorable ones are dropped. False witnesses put in their two cents.

Since I wasn't there when it happened and since I did not do any research to form my opinion I don't mind telling you that I rely on the work of a few researchers who dug deeper than the above authors and who are responsible for exposing the hidden truth. The researchers are Robert G. Todd, Karl Pflock, Kal K. Korff, Philip J. Klass. The revelations found in their books, even with occasional errors, are superior to anything written by the above and other pro-UFO authors.

There is a way for the Roswell UFO crash myth to be deflated but it requires a dedicated effort to achieve it. The question is: "Who would want to join such a venture and is the effort worth it?" Except for individuals such as myself who is sick and tired of dealing with the gullible believers who ignore history and feel that it is more hip to accept lies rather than the truth, my solution will make sense but I'm afraid that it won't become a reality because the effort needed to bring it to fruition requires a dedication that few, if any, will want to engage in.

My solution is found in the book by Philip Klass titled: THE REAL ROSWELL CRASHED-SAUCER COVERUP and I will quote below the significant text that gave me the idea on how to prove that what "crashed" near Roswell was not a UFO.

From pages 120-122 between brackets [ ]:
[During the 1979 interview, Marcel recalled that "the fragments were strewn all over an area about three-quarters of a mile long and several hundred feet wide." A long, narrow field of debris is what would be expected when one or several of the twenty-three weather balloons in the NYU Flight #4 sprang a leak or exploded at high altitude, causing the 600-foot-long balloon train to descend. Based on debris recovered from other NYU balloon flights, Prof. Moore offered the following logical scenario in his letter of September 25, 1995, to me:

The standard weather balloons used in this flight did not "crash." Instead they probably descended slowly to Earth after some of the neoprene balloons lifting the train burst as a result of prolonged exposure to sunlight. When the bottom part of the balloon train touched the ground, the upper portion of the train was [still] held aloft by the remaining balloons which were probably blown downwind by the breezes at the surface. A landing like this usually caused the equipment at the bottom of the train [including the radar targets] to be dragged through the underbrush and to be ripped off when any of it snagged in the shrubbery.

Often, after the equipment was ripped off as a result of wind forces, the upper part of the train had enough lift that it would rise again and float downwind until another balloon burst from degradation in the sunlight, whereupon the descent, dragging and equipment-shedding sequence would be repeated....

From Brazel's description of the debris, it appears to me that he found only a portion of the equipment carried on that flight: he picked up broken pieces of several radar targets and fragments of burst balloons. Absent from hs description was any mention of the sonobuoy microphone, the pressure switches [used to maintain constant altitude], the boxes of batteries and the tubes holding the ballast; these probably were broken away from the flight train in an earlier touchdown before the target remnants were deposited on the Foster [Brazel] Ranch....

This is an added irony of the Roswell Incident. If only one of these other objects had been found by Brazel, Marcel, or Cavitt, it would clearly have identified the debris as being the remnants from something that had been manufactured in the United States. If, as has been erroneously claimed by some "witnesses," the RAAF had launched a massive search effort of the surrounding area, one of these devices, or its remnants, might have been found to correctly identify the "flying disc."

In Marcel's May 1979 interview, he recalled that the long path of debris stretched in a northeast-southwest direction, and that from the concentration of debris, the object appeared to have been moving from northeast to southwest. More probably, considering that NYU Flight #4 had been launched from Alamogordo, which is southwest of the Brazel ranch, the balloon train was moving in the opposite direction. But Marcel's and Cavitt's primary objective on July 8, 1947, had been to promptly recover the debris and return it to RAAF - not try to determine the direction in which the object had been moving when it touched down.]

There you have it, the solution to once and for all prove that all of the pro-crash books authors had engaged in creating and perpetuating a major lie that has had negative repercussions on the sorry state of UFOlogy. All that is needed is for one or more individuals to mount an expedition to the area mentioned above and scan for balloon train remnants which might turn up the sonobuoy microphone, the pressure switches, the boxes of batteries and the tubes holding the ballast. Finding any one of these would be like holding the final nail on the Roswell UFO Crash myth.

How would you, if you are a believer, feel if even one object was found and publicized? It would make "disclosure" seem like child's play and the repercussions would affect UFOlogy for years to come. I fantasize that it would be me that would find any of the above objects, not for the fame that it would bring but to have the last laugh on the above authors and their gullible supporters. Let me have that laugh now!

Let me probably ly be the only one to flag you.

I agree totally.

Roswell has been overhyped for decades. It is never going away because of Hollywood.

I like to think that a weather baloon in the 40's looked alien to folks who didn't know any better, we all know how rumors and speculation work.

The hardcore peoples around here do not want to hear about it though.

I will continue yo assume that everything is terrestrial until proven otherwise. Some ranchers testimony from the 40's is far from proof in my opinion.

reply to post by The Shrike


I'm what most would consider to be a UFO skeptic, which to me means I need compelling evidence to believe something is a real ET UFO. That said, it seems the Roswell incident was so long ago and there is no publicly available evidence and all the witness testimony is hearsay or even second-hand in nature, that it is impossible to know what the truth is regarding it. If it were the real ET deal, one would think it would be very hard to keep it secret all these years, but the US has kept other secrets for decades, including medical experiments on US citizens. So it is possible. The fact that some of the Roswell UFO debunking reports from the Air Force have seemed to have inconsistencies to them, i.e. claiming that the "alien" bodies observed were dummies that weren't created until the 1950's, makes me dubious of the official government line.

Bottom line: Roswell is a wash. Can't prove anything one way or the other, and critical thinkers/skeptics should remain agnostic regarding it. To claim that it is obviously just a myth built up over the years is overstating the case. The same is the case of stating that it is a clear cut instance of an alien spaceship crash.

I would duck low or dig a very very big hole if I was you

A nice sceptics view and it seems you have not realy studied this case in depth so be prepared for a full on attack

Oh I forgot to add it was the russians wasnt it

You can consider all that in your humble opinion, but I don't believe a word of it, and we're not being reset by NWO order, or regressionists. They're not winning. Instead, those who live in the light, but work to suppress the people and keep them in the dark are not enlightened, but the most unenlightened individuals on earth. If you really don't understand about ufo's yet, do some soul searching, and work for a pure intent, an open mind and heart and great compassion for all those in need, for every child on earth, and you'll see soon enough what's there.

Rosewell was real. Many others as well. They don't have a good relationship with real ET, the good guys by the way. They chase them with unmarked black choppers and more exotic crafts.

Like any other theory it has it's place s&f as for Unity_99's take on things he makes big claims re ufo's on some of his threads/posts but doesn't seem to want to back them up have you bought a good camera yet Unity?

Nonsense, there has been more than one crash and while I am not sure if any aliens crashed there, least of all it may have been some Soviet thing or they say even Nazi lol.. but weather balloon, and all the story about a weatehr balloon, get out with this nonsense.

I saw this post and I was hoping that it was from you. No, you have explained nothing about the Roswell mystery. You have, as usual, provided no evidence only your tired brand of skepticism.

Let me go through this again.

1. Our government released press that a flying disk had been captured. According to the man in the center of the press release, Lt. Haut, he believed that it was extraterrestrial. He saw 4' bodies with large heads. He put this in a death bed testimony. Also, the local mortician, Glenn Dennis, said he was asked for child's caskets, from the base.

All of this proves that something unusual crashed, piloted by small beings.

2. Marcel and others testified that the wreckage was of a material unknown to him. Memory metals and rigid Ibeams with strange hieroglyphics. It was seen by his son, and by a couple of dozen others. This was clearly NOT a weather balloon or anything of the sort. In your heart, you know marcel would not have mistaken this material for a balloon. That is silly.

3. The memo held by Ramey is the debris photo is very telling. While it is impossible to make all of it out, phrases like "aviators of the disk" and "balloon PR" jump off the page.

4. The silly Mogel cover, and the later "case closed" on the alien bodies is over the top silliness by the military and government. These dummies were dropped in the 1950s, not in 1947, and this explains what people saw? Wow, I have some land for you if you buy that.

I am not buying the silliness that you are posting here "The Shreck". Roswell remains unexplained, but clearly leans to the ET/ED hypothesis.

reply to post by The Shrike


No offense... but you sound like a robotic troll. You say things and use certain language to insinuate that you are right, no matter what.

When you say things like:

I am not a believer and it is so much easier to accept the original reports than rely on manufactured lies perpetuated by greedy authors who have contempt for the truth. Even when they realize that what they've written is erroneous they don't have the decency to admit but try to work it so that what they present contains sanitized "truth".

These "greedy" people you speak of have contempt for outright lies.

When you say it's "easier" to accept the original reports..... you're revealing a weakness in your psyche.

reply to post by The Shrike



How many times Shrike, does the military have to lie to you until you get it?

At least one flying disk crashed at Roswell.
Get over it.
Deal with it.

I know the fence must feel safe, but I can't keep babysitting you.
Come out of the closet.

reply to post by The Shrike


Another attempt, another failure...

Phillip Klass huh?The governments most high profile professional skeptic,lol.I.E.paid shill.

Originally posted by Unity_99

Rosewell was real. Many others as well.

No one disputes that it was or wasn't real or not. What's in dispute, is that aliens were involved.

Originally posted by Unity_99
They don't have a good relationship with real ET, the good guys by the way. They chase them with unmarked black choppers and more exotic crafts.

Just how on earth did you come to that conclusion? Because you read it somewhere on the internet? We have never found proof of alien life, much less proof that we've carried on a relationship with an intelligent alien civilization. At least there's no evidence to support that, other than wild unsubstantiated claims.

I hope that your rebuttal comes with some sort of proof. One thing you can always count on, is that human beings seem to believe the most outrageous things when no evidence exists, and will wholeheartedly dismiss reality. I guess that's why Fox News is so popular!

reply to post by The Shrike


Like i said before, i find it hard to believe that militery personel misidentified
a weather balloon for a flying disc. If you want to believe the
"official" story, the debris were tin foil, rubber beams, and the
militery could not see this!?

Im not saying it was ET, but weather balloon (project M) i don't
think it was.

Maybe, but if your heroes are the duplicitous Philip Klass and even more so, Kal Korff, you're delusional. Did you know Kal Korff is a Colonel in a secret Israeli intelligence service, or that he has an imaginary girlfriend? Next you'll be telling me Billy Meier really did go back in time to meet the dinosaurs.

KAL KORFF????? Seriously????

reply to post by schuyler


Your right. Philip Klass was a joke. He had no interest in finding
out what was behind some of these ufo sightings. He was also
caught many times lying!

Mind you, debunkers worship him like a mini god. You know,
the type of de-bunkers who breath debunking. Like its the only
thing they are interested. I say, get a life!

There are just too many anomalies surrounding Roswell to credit a weather balloon as the actual crash victim, or even secret bomb-detecting microphones. From a large amount of air traffic arriving in and leaving the airbase after the event, from and to the most important bases in the U.S., to Twining cancelling a trip to make an emergency visit to new Mexico on July 17th, to the reports of truck-fulls of debris, to the rancher being held for a week by the military, and it just goes on and on. Weirdness at the radio station and calls from the military, people receiving items.. like fridges and ovens and other large appliances, the children of the rancher talking about having to take cattle over a mile around out of the way to avoid the debris, etc. et al.

Regardless OP, you seem in a poor position to be making such a definitive stand on a case you admit to having not bothered to study on your own, only relying on books or reports written by people with an obvious bias. I however, made a decision by studying all the data, critics and witnesses alike, before I made a decision. You claim to be a brilliant mind, but unfortunately, you just come across as your typical categorically decisive debunker. Facts? Who needs those huh? Just dismiss everything you don't believe, and embrace all that in your mind disproves it.

Just another debunker with a lot of opinionated ideas.

This is officially my favorite thread on ATS.

This proves everything I've ever said about you:

1.) You have no clue what you're talking about in any subject in ufology

2.) Every thread you create is purposely made just to annoy others

3.) You have a belief system even though you say you don't

4.) You are the very definition of an internet troll

Among many other things....This thread should make it more than clear to the admins of ATS that you're not here for any real kind of intelligent conversation. Only to incite flamewars and throw out insults or the occasional wishing for the death of some ufologist you hate.

reply to post by The Shrike


You mean the military changed it's story 3 times and yet nothing happened ? The army mistaken a balloon for a disc lol. Even 60 years later it cant make up it's mind what happened and "derp we dun goofed again it's crash test dummies this time project mogul derr" I mean say the wife came home at 4 in the morning with alcohol on her breath smelling like another mans cologne and told you 3 different versions of where she was and what she did then... maybe i better not trust her

Yeah our military was and still is just that disorganized and incompetent post WW2 , Is Gomer Pyle commander and chief of the most inept military force in the world ? No the ARMY knew what they were doing, they said too much about the disc.

Either you are projecting your denial because you are not receptive to the facts. Or the prospect of beings with higher technology of unknown origins. Or maybe you are just a troll ? I would not go as far to call you a disinfo agent because i do not see the government finding this method efficient. So i will give you that NO you are not a disinfo agent

You may as well tell me the earth is flat even though I have seen photos that tell me other wise. I don't know if it was Aliens, Russian mutant ninja turtles, some German scientists prototype. What i do know is that whatever happened is still being covered up 70 years later and we have been lied to that is more then obvious. Whatever crashed in that desert it's secrets it's technology supersedes our tech still today? At least what us civilians have must be obsolete in comparison.

I suspect it was a time machine because ET craft would not be such a big deal. With a time machine disclosing it's existence could interfere with our future. So that's why they lied and made it obvious to begin with creating the Alien mythos? Then again maybe it really was ET's all along. No pile of sticks, paper, plastic could ever generate such lore.

I see the UFO worshipers have came out in droves to belittle the OP.

Each and everyone of you are hilarious. You say he has no proof, but you come in here with no proof to back up your claims.

I am sure that 60+ year old hearsay and conjecture is still just that, hearsay and conjecture.

There is not one solid piece of evidence to back up any of your claims.

People in the 40's were ignorant to technology. They had outhouses and some were still without electricity. Mainly the folks in the country, which is where this incident happened.

They wouldn't know a top secret military project if it bit them in the a$$.

Does the military tell us what is going on these days? Hell no, we get the run around just like they git in the 40's.