What drives some to make the assumption that the U.S. is NOT as Militarily Advanced as it truly is?

I suggest it is possible that it might not be the worlds most superior because I have worked for defense contractors and I find that production is often very wasteful and full of those american "filler" jobs and office politics. I realize there are probably much better examples but there is no reason to think that larger populations who are just as advanced in knowledge wouldn't be more likely to produce a larger number of people capable of achieving such things. Simple math has a lot to do with it.

Yeah super weapons to kill anyone and everything without mercy. But all china has to do is pull all its debt owed by america, trillions. They might have to club the chinese to death when they don't have the money to buy any bullets left. The chinese military has a department covering economic warfare. America could send them a rubber cheque and bounce it but then no other country would be willing to lend them significant finances in the future. Thats what happens when you buy everything you want from walmart.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot

Those technologies do sound very interesting, but your Military.com poster displays a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of at least one major physical factor in his post.....I'll let you figure it out on your own.

Once again though we are talking about weapons yet to be developed as a countermeasure for one that already exists.....I'm sure the US is working on defences against all manner of Russian weapons, I know the UK is, but that doesn't mean we have an effective countermeasure deployed yet,

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Plenty other nations have such reverse engineered/secretive projects and technologies.

You are far over-stating things.

These systems are WORLD CHANGING and even knowledge of their EXISTENCE would put Political Strains on our relations with other countries and even our own allies.

Like the fact the F-22 is grounded indefinitely? Which country does the ancestral lineage of that aircraft's jet engine design lead back to again?

Originally posted by squarehead666
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

Those technologies do sound very interesting, but your Military.com poster displays a pretty fundamental lack of understanding of at least one major physical factor in his post.....I'll let you figure it out on your own.

Please help me out, I know a little bit about the mechanics and principles involved and overlooked any fundamental flaws in the authors essay?

His biography also states he has a masters degree in math from MIT. From the same link...

A former partner in a top-10 global management consulting firm, Joe Buff is a seasoned risk analyst and professional writer on national security and defense preparedness. Three of his non-fiction articles received annual literary awards from the Naval Submarine League.

He is also a national best-selling author of tales of near-future warfare featuring nuclear submariners and special operations forces in action at their bravest and best. His latest novel, his sixth, Seas of Crisis, won the 2006 Admiral Nimitz Award for Outstanding Naval Fiction from the Military Writers Society of America.

Joe holds a master's degree in math from MIT, earned under a National Science Foundation Fellowship. He worked as an intern at the Argonne National Laboratory. Previously a qualified actuary for twenty years, with extensive experience at interpreting policy implications of dire "what if" scenarios, he is now a member of the Society for Risk Analysis, a non-partisan international scholarly body headquartered in McLean, VA.

Of course, writing a couple of books and having some formal education on the topic doesn't necessarily mean somebody is correct.

What do you see wrong?

Originally posted by Morg234
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Plenty other nations have such reverse engineered/secretive projects and technologies.

You are far over-stating things.

These systems are WORLD CHANGING and even knowledge of their EXISTENCE would put Political Strains on our relations with other countries and even our own allies.

Like the fact the F-22 is grounded indefinitely? Which country does the ancestral lineage of that aircraft's jet engine design lead back to again?

The F-22 fleet isn't grounded (currently ) and if you are using them as an example of U.S. bleeding edge technology, keep in mind the F-22 was designed in the 1980's.

What does the ancestral lineage of the PW F119 have to do with current U.S. military technological hedgeonomy?

The Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 Pitch Thrust vectoring turbofans that power the Raptor have as much in common with Frank Whittle or Hans von Ohain's invention ( depending on who you are giving historical credit to) as the F-22 has with Orville and Wilbur Wright's Kittyhawk.

Did you know that the U.S. budget for just military research, development and testing alone equals the entire budget of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?

I think that SplitInfinity may be a little melodramatic in his presentation ( who loves ya' Split ) but his point is fundamentally sound.

Of course other nations engineers and scientists have the capability of developing new technologies and reverse engineering has paid great dividends. The Soviet TU-4 Bull was successfully copied rivet for rivet from an interned B-29 ( the B-29 was a technological marvel and literally the B-2 of its day )

Having the technology is only part of the battle, you have to have a manufacturing infrastructure that is capable of utilizing it in a meaningful manner on a large scale.

Look at the history of titanium in aviation as an example.

It is one thing to know the A-12/SR-71 used titanium to overcome aerodynamic heating but it is something else to have the metallurgical secrets and machine equipment to successfully fabricate it into complex machinery.

Mandatory photo of B-29/TU-4 comparison because I referenced them...




And an SR-71 just because...


Regarding

These systems are WORLD CHANGING and even knowledge of their EXISTENCE would put Political Strains on our relations with other countries and even our own allies.

I hope they aren't building one of these..

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Hi SI,

So, from your perspective, would you say we are 100+years advanced than what we know/shown right now ? If so, how would that even be possible due to the 'natural' order of technology as we know it..

reply to post by Morg234


Indefinitely grounded? According to who? They have been flying for months, and are now cleared to fly up to 40,000 feet with a pressure suit, 30,000 without it. As soon as they install the new pressure valve they will be cleared up to 60,000 again.

reply to post by Xtrozero

Whether you believe what I post or not means nothing to me. You may chose to disagree or not. It is not my job to inform you nor is it important for me for you to believe what I post.

Needless to say there will always be a percentage of people that will bury their heads in the sand. Either because they do not believe or they do not wish to believe the obvious. This works to the advantage of secrecy.

I cannot blame you as I have provided little proof still I have provided a line of logic that makes sense.

If a person looks at the HISTORY of Secret Programs of the U.S. Military...one can see the Secret Long Term use of weapon or recon systems such as the U-2...SR-71...F-117...etc...

These programs were run for DECADES before anyone knew about them PUBLICLY. For instance...a friend of mine who now the owner of a Private Company called BLACKBIRD AVIONICS...or at least it was still Private the last time we worked together. He was responsible for the calculations necessary for KC-135 Refueling of the F-117's as a VERY COVERT Program that existed in the 80's had F-117 flying Recon Missions DIRECTLY OVER THE SOVIET UNION...CHINA...NORTH KOREA...and other I cannot talk about as they are still classified.

The existence of this program was not made public until recently. The existence of the F-117 was made public much earlier but still we were flying over these countries without anyone's knowledge on Either Side except those in the LOOP. If it was not for Jimmy Carter OUTING the existence of Stealth Tech as a way to counter REAGAN'S assertion that Carter was allowing the U.S. Military to degrade...we most likely would not have known about the F-117's existence even during the first Gulf War.

You can believe what you will...I have LIVED IT. I know what the reality is. Split Infinity

reply to post by Morg234


Germany.

The F/A-22 has a method of hiding the IR Signature of the craft. This method is based partly on the work done by Dr. T. Townsend Brown and others.

There is NO COUNTRY ON EARTH that currently has this Tech.

The F/A-22 is a design that is more than 2 Decades Old. The U.S. has Aircraft now flying that use various forms of Advanced Propulsion that are so advanced that few on the planet know of their existence.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Komodo

Even in the BLACK WORLD of Ultra-Secret U.S. Technology there are Secret Comparmentalisations.

These Divisions seem to be connected to Wright Patterson AFB. Home to the Ultra-Secretive U.S. Department and Agency dedicated to Reverse Engineering.

Since the U.S. leads the World in High Tech....one must ponder just exactly WHERE such Tech. worthy of Reverse Engineering is coming from.

I am sure you can guess. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


How good are the Chinese and Russians at "reverse engineering" American Tech? Im not talking about WW2 either, as an example. We know they can copy, but are their skills good enough to mass produce quality work?

reply to post by sonnny1


The Chinese are VERY GOOD at Reverse Engineering Russian Tech as History Shows the Chinese building everything from AK-47's to MiG's.

When it comes to Reverse Engineering American Weapons Systems and Tech...it is not so easy. This is mainly due to Metallurgy as well as being able to properly Program Computerized Systems. The Russians are better at doing this.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


K.


Thanks again for the quick response.

One more thing. Do you think Japan has a secret Military?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I cannot blame you as I have provided little proof still I have provided a line of logic that makes sense.

The problem is your logic is not sound, and that is why I disagree with you...

If a person looks at the HISTORY of Secret Programs of the U.S. Military...one can see the Secret Long Term use of weapon or recon systems such as the U-2...SR-71...F-117...etc...

So once again you may use examples, but there are no examples of ANYTHING that is hugely advanced (100 times or even 10 times) in our total history... Please provide an example of let’s say technology that was secret 50 years ago that was 100x more advance than anything of that era.

I agree U-2 SR71 F-117 were secret for a few decades each, but as we look at them today that technology was easily within our means for each of these aircraft. NONE were outside the norm of our technology for their time, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove by these examples since they prove my point and not yours.

Program that existed in the 80's had F-117 flying Recon Missions DIRECTLY OVER THE SOVIET UNION...CHINA...NORTH KOREA...and other I cannot talk about as they are still classified.

Well I was very aware of F-117s in the 80s since I flew out to Tonopah many times in support, but once again I'm not debating that things are secret, I'm debating that our secret technology is NOT 100 times more advance than what we have out in the open.

You can believe what you will...I have LIVED IT. I know what the reality is. Split Infinity

I have lived it too my friend...

So can you give one example of technology in the last 200 years that was extremely advance for the era it was created in? Are you suggesting this is a new thing that all of a sudden we advanced 100 times 1000 times in the resent past that we have not done before? Are you suggesting it is reversed engineer alien tech? How does a civilization advance extremely fast without help of some kind?

The interesting part is I see us advancing at a exponential rate today, but it all is still small steps and not huge leaps…

reply to post by sonnny1


You know...I ALWAYS have worried about the Japanese. Many have told me my worrying is unfounded given that the U.S. has written the Japanese Constitution which expressly FORBIDS Japan to either have or build a Offensive Military.

Still...the Japanese are by our own hands, a very advanced technical society. It would not be hard for them to develop many High Tech. Weapon Systems. Their only issue is Japans lack of Natural Resources as in the event of any Large Conflict...the United States Military's ability to keep shipments of Raw Materials from reaching a possible resurgent Japan are ABSOLUTE.

Still....I worry. Split Infinity

reply to post by Xtrozero


I cannot address here your question as far as certain U.S. Tech. being 1000 times in advanced as what people may think. This does not mean it does not exist.

What it does mean is that I enjoy posting here and wish to continue to do so.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

K.


Thanks again for the quick response.

One more thing. Do you think Japan has a secret Military?

I hope the Hell Not! Split Infinity

reply to post by sonnny1


Reverse engineering something like a plane isn't as easy as people think. The Chinese have gotten better, but most of their "reverse engineered" aircraft, are actually license built. The best example is the Chinese 727.

In the 1970s, Boeing sold two 727 aircraft to China, at the request of Washington, in an attempt to open trade doors. A few years later, one of the Boeing head guys was in China, when they asked if he wanted to see their aircraft. They took him and showed him a third 727. They showed him all around the aircraft, which looked exactly like a 727, down to the rivets. Then he went into the cockpit. Everything looked the same, but when he tried to move the control yoke, he said that it would have taken a gorilla to fly the plane, because the controls were so hard to move. He begged the Chinese not to fly it, as it would be almost impossible to control. As far as I know, the aircraft was later scrapped, and it never flew.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Now that's a story.