Are you satisfied about Obama's birth certificate and past?

Did you need to see proof?

No, how many other Americans have you demanded to prove they were born here??

reply to post by BrianG


No I don't think they are real at all I think he had Michelle make them up for him in the White house basement after they killed a guy and assumed his identity. I am voting for him anyway though because Romney is worse.

reply to post by BrianG


Does it matter everything is already been bought and paid for. I have never voted in my 39 years because I believe the one has already been chosen. All of these polo's and debate's are just a show for the people that think they have a choice. Wake up you don't if you vote for the unchosen one then your vote is tossed out it dosent count. Live life struggle just as I do. If your rich you have nothing to worry about, if your a poor person learn to survive the best you can.

Originally posted by hangedman13
Here is my take on the bc issue. Yes he was born in the US, but he went to school as a foreign student. Hence all the sealing of records.

Funny, you also must have beeen a foreign student as your exact same records are sealed the same as Obama's... so what are you hiding, why did you get your records sealed?

reply to post by BrianG


I am nobody and I have no special sources or insight. I voted for him. I plan to do so again. But,...
I think I suspect that he was born here but that his mother or adoptive father ended his American citizenship. This is in part because of him attending school in Indonesia and he would have had to have been a citizen there in order to do so. I think some of his school records likely reflect that situation. He may even have had aid as a foreign student.

However, I don't think it was his decision to end his citizenship. I think either his grandparents or he, himself as he came of age, recognized what had been taken from him and then took steps to regain that citizenship. It does make it a tricky situation but I do believe that he is dedicated to this country and that this is where his loyalty is.

I know that there will be people who slam me for even suspecting irregularities in his citizenship and still supporting him but what are the legalities if he was natural born, renounced, and then reinstated? In terms of the highest office of the land is that part written out? I suspect that there is no precedent and that is why the records are sealed.

Originally posted by watcher3339
his mother or adoptive father ended his American citizenship.

Care to explain how someone else could change your citizenship?

This is in part because of him attending school in Indonesia and he would have had to have been a citizen there in order to do so.

What makes you make that silly claim? So you have to be a scitizen of any country to attend school there, do you?

that is why the records are sealed.

So did you do that also, is that why you have sealed your same records? Or did you seal your for another reason?

Pole shift incoming in all probability. A black community organizer with eloquent speaking skills is just what is needed when it hits. Obama was most likely installed as POTUS just for that reason. The things he says/does make sense in that scenario. He seems disengaged overall which would make sense if he is waiting on the moment when he can shine. The sudden 180 people who are outspoken against him do, like Clinton says a lot. The massive spending by him and Bush make sense in that scenario too. Debt will be meaningless if half of China and Russia are under water.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by watcher3339
his mother or adoptive father ended his American citizenship.

Care to explain how someone else could change your citizenship?

This is in part because of him attending school in Indonesia and he would have had to have been a citizen there in order to do so.

What makes you make that silly claim? So you have to be a scitizen of any country to attend school there, do you?

that is why the records are sealed.

So did you do that also, is that why you have sealed your same records? Or did you seal your for another reason?[

I never get into random spats here but I suspect you have issues.
Is there not a way for a legal guardian to make legal decisions for a minor, including renouncing their citizenship? Or, perhaps they don't actually do anything to legally change it but tell the child, who lives in another country that they have or that the child doesn't have U.S. citizenship. Then the child applies to go to school in the U.S. as a foreign student only to find that hey, guess what, that child has U.S. citizenship.
An Indonesian school is actually only for Indonesian citizens.
None of my records are sealed. I am the second poster to whom you have made that random, totally not text supported statement. Learn how to read before you try to debate.

There really is no defense anyone can provide but the so called "guilty party" himself.

Becoming the first black President is amazing, and you would have to assume that you would be under the microscope.

Squeaky clean comes to mind

Don't you think Hillary Clinton would have been treated similarily? Her closet full of skeletons would have been paraded around for all to see.

Originally posted by watcher3339
An Indonesian school is actually only for Indonesian citizens.

No it is not.... care to show us the Indonesian law that states that?
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

None of my records are sealed.

The first true thing you have said, as being "sealed" means

Record Sealing — The process of sealing or destroying of court records. The term is derived from the tradition of placing a seal on specified court files that prevents anyone from reviewing the files without receiving a court order. The modern process and requirements to seal a record and the protections it provides vary by state and often vary between civil and criminal cases.

Obama's records have not been sealed. However, that does not mean anyone can see them, exactly the same as your school records are private - I notice you totally ignore the The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99)

If they have been sealed care to show the court decision that sealed them?

Funny, I just tried to obtain your school records, passport records etc and I could not! Why is that?

Birthers are not at all interested in facts, just cut and post crap from birther sites. Ever stopped to think why birthers have failed every court case in every state that they have attempted?
"No wonder Occidental College had a field day getting her motion thrown out with prejudice and be awarded $4000 in cost. In the mean time, the Judge continued to point out the myriad of failures on Orly’s part, dooming another of her cases.

What is even more shocking is that when she gets to a ‘trial on the merits’ such as in Georgia or in Indiana, she totally fails to properly introduce her ‘evidence’, or to properly certify her ‘experts’. In both cases, the Judge throws out the testimony as irrelevant, immaterial, and inadmissible.

That surely takes some talent to do this twice, once in front of an ‘empty chair’! and lose!!

And of course, time after time she blames anyone else but herself. Does that impress you"

nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

For those who think that Obama's birth certificate isn't real, and/or that he is actually ineligable for the position of POTUS because he was foreign born, let me say this:

Drop it! Obama was born in Hawaii! If he wasn't, since you have to show proof of eligibility to run in order to get on the ballot in all 50 states, why has no one been able to prove it? All we have is the "well, a friend of a friend of his college roommate's girlfriend said he once mentioned to her that he was born in Kenya." Really? THAT is your evidence?

Yes. Obama's birth certificate is real. Yes. Obama is a natural-born American citizen with every right to run for, and hold the position of, President of the United States.

Besides, even if he wasn't (again, he is, but let's go in to la-la land for a hypothetical), would you really want the country to have to go through the overwhelming constitutional and legal crisis that would unfold if it turned out that our POTUS never had the right to do anything he did? Every single bill and executive order signed would be null and void. Every position he appointed would have been illegal, thus making EVERY SINGLE decision, act, dollar, penny, and memo to have come out of the executive branch over the last four years illegal. Every single one would have to be reverted back to its 2008 status. McCain would then be President by default, and this current election would have to be invalidated. The Dems would then have to run a primary to pick a new candidate. In the end, we would likely not get back on track as a nation for more than a decade as lawsuits, trials, and legislation plunged our country in to chaos.

So, let me ask you "birthers" a question. Do you really love this country, as you claim to? Because, as I see it, you have two choices. One, recognize the fact that Obama is a natural-born American citizen. Or, two, keep going on your pointless crusade that, if it turned out to be true (it's not, but "what if"), would decimate this very country.

It seems to me that if someone is buying in to the lie that he isn't a natural-born citizen, and is pursuing this, then they are trying to do more damage to the country than Obama ever did.

reply to post by watcher3339


Actually, watcher, I beg to differ. If you went to college, your records are sealed. Period. By law, school records may only be released to the person about whom the record exists. So, yes, your records are sealed.

Now, the two questions about this that are ultimately in play are 1) Why does the GOP care so much about his college transcripts; what do they hope to find? And, 2) If Obama isn't concerned, why won't he have them released to the public?

Honestly, I think the GOP is just grasping at straws with the college records, and I think Obama just doesn't want to make it easy on them. This whole thing is just a political tit-for-tat, with both sides trying to make it hard on the other.

Originally posted by BrianG
of those who say yes, did you ever doubt or were you always sure?

Did you need to see proof?

And no I won't drop it, it is still relevant.

Next I am going to do JFK

Actually, if you go faaar back into my history, I flirted with the birther movement for awhile. I was concerned as there was some questions that were brought up.
Over time I became satisfied with the certifiicate of live birth matching the newspaper announcement.
As a document imaging specialist, I disregarded the long form birth certificate critique, and that first day I put out a statement by adobe (presented years earlier in their troubleshooting page) about scanning ocr to pdf and the issues involved that regarded the floating fields and such and how the process will always cause issues.

As far as why soo many websites say stuff. Its spider webbing information for credibility..in the same way some random spam will have hundreds of websites all slightly different that ultimately lead you to the same product. This is engineered by someone with a fair sized wallet to get low info voters to be nervous. simple political tactic..about as remarkable as a herbal viagra advertisment blitz.

Its good to be critical of leaders..to simply accept anything and everything leads you open to many scams. But eventually critical thinking needs to kick in once you have enough credible info.

Originally posted by Koros
reply to post by watcher3339

 

Actually, watcher, I beg to differ. If you went to college, your records are sealed. Period. By law, school records may only be released to the person about whom the record exists. So, yes, your records are sealed.

Now, the two questions about this that are ultimately in play are 1) Why does the GOP care so much about his college transcripts; what do they hope to find? And, 2) If Obama isn't concerned, why won't he have them released to the public?

Honestly, I think the GOP is just grasping at straws with the college records, and I think Obama just doesn't want to make it easy on them. This whole thing is just a political tit-for-tat, with both sides trying to make it hard on the other.

edit on 11/3/2012 by Koros because: (no reason given)

I think it may show he was advanced via affirmative action, which will let people sort of nudge and wink to one another as if he was just some person straight off the cotton fields and pushed whitey aside to get his education. Thats what they are ultimately hopeing for would be my -guess-. Honestly it doesn't make a ton of sense.

We know he did go to university, he did become a lawyer..so, why is all the fuss about how he entered into school?
I would dismiss them..if he shows that also (as he did his long form), next they will demand baptism records (to prove he was never baptised, therefore...al-queda), and who knows from that point on...perhaps dna samples to prove he is in fact human.

Originally posted by CB328

Did you need to see proof?

No, how many other Americans have you demanded to prove they were born here??

In saying that, its not without precident.
Mitt Romney's father tried to run for POTUS, even said he was born in the USA.
However, it was found out that he was born in Mexico, and therefore lost his campaign.

yes...
Mitt is an "anchor baby".

(father: mexico)

Originally posted by BrianG
I am really late to the game I know i know

I am not convinced that those documents are the real unaltered deal.

My gut keeps telling me there is much deception about his past.

The guy could well have been born in Hawaii but why does he have so many lies floating about Kenya in his past? Is he just an opportunist?

Why did he lie to the Bar about not using any other name besides Barrack Obama?

There are 1000's of sites/blogs proclaiming this and that evidence against him - never before in history has so much been said about one guy.

If it was happening to me I would round up a media circus and head to Hawaii to let as many people as possible physically view the original birth certificate. I would feel a great need to vindicate myself and prove all the "idiots" wrong. That would be easy.


Heck this is ATS and I believe this is one HUGE conspiracy that should not be forgotten

Another post from the OP,

" Saying things never just makes them true" 'nuff said. See above.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by watcher3339
An Indonesian school is actually only for Indonesian citizens.

No it is not.... care to show us the Indonesian law that states that?
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

None of my records are sealed.

The first true thing you have said, as being "sealed" means

Record Sealing — The process of sealing or destroying of court records. The term is derived from the tradition of placing a seal on specified court files that prevents anyone from reviewing the files without receiving a court order. The modern process and requirements to seal a record and the protections it provides vary by state and often vary between civil and criminal cases.

Obama's records have not been sealed. However, that does not mean anyone can see them, exactly the same as your school records are private - I notice you totally ignore the The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99)

If they have been sealed care to show the court decision that sealed them?

Funny, I just tried to obtain your school records, passport records etc and I could not! Why is that?

Birthers are not at all interested in facts, just cut and post crap from birther sites. Ever stopped to think why birthers have failed every court case in every state that they have attempted?
"No wonder Occidental College had a field day getting her motion thrown out with prejudice and be awarded $4000 in cost. In the mean time, the Judge continued to point out the myriad of failures on Orly’s part, dooming another of her cases.

What is even more shocking is that when she gets to a ‘trial on the merits’ such as in Georgia or in Indiana, she totally fails to properly introduce her ‘evidence’, or to properly certify her ‘experts’. In both cases, the Judge throws out the testimony as irrelevant, immaterial, and inadmissible.

That surely takes some talent to do this twice, once in front of an ‘empty chair’! and lose!!

And of course, time after time she blames anyone else but herself. Does that impress you"

nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com...

"birthers are" you say....still can't read I see, I suppose you didn't notice that my very first response started with I voted for him and I intend to do so again...Given that you don't pay any attention to anything that is actually stated by the people here and then simply pick snippets to repost with arguments that don't really even go with them I honestly am not even going to take the time to look at anything that you posted because you conduct on this thread, where people were asked an opinion and then provided them but you shot back with all sorts of nonsense makes you seem more like a troll than an informed individual interested in honest discourse.

(sigh)

* On the Birth Cert

Guys.... This has to end as a current event topic some day. I had major questions about his Birth Certificate. In fact, on one level, I still DO....but it's not the Citizenship one. Arizona called Hawaii's bluff earlier this year and I don't mean Sheriff Arpaio. Arizona's Secretary of State outright demanded certification proof of it's existence and validity on the issue of U.S. Birth. Hawaii did, FINALLY, certify it and did so legally. People had to sign in that process. Those people committed crimes if it wasn't legitimate. Arizona would be the type to prosecute too...and they'd know that. It satisfied my concerns. Completely.

- My remaining concerns are about his parentage...but are matters for historic record and have no bearing on his legal quals to serve,

* On Indonesia

Obama DID NOT have to be a citizen of Indonesia to attend the state Madrassa that he did attend. He also attended TWO schools while in Indonesia and they both proudly claim him as their own, if anyone takes the time to check. It's no secret and hasn't been since 2010. (not 2008....which is why I missed it..it wasn't breaking headlines by a long shot) The SECOND school Obama attended and spent most of his time at while there is a Private Catholic School. Yes...Catholic. if going to Madrassa makes him Muslim, what does attending Catholic school make him? The Pope would be horrified at the line of logic for that one, I think.

* Barry Soetoro

That was his name as he used it in Indonesia. Legally and officially. Again, the schools he attended are proud to claim him and made a POINT of that starting in 2010, as they felt they weren't getting their 'due' for history. On that paperwork his name is listed as Barry Soetoro, not Barack Obama. Interesting questions there too.....but doesn't disqualify him. The Constitution is clear and plain on what it takes to be President and he meets the requirements.

* On Natural Born Citizen

I've yet to meet anyone who can show me where this has been defined. I didn't have to ask my college instructors. They asked ME...since I was the arrogant one figuring I KNEW this had been defined and they decided to call me on proving it. Well......imagine my shock. It never HAS been defined. By anyone. Not for a legal certainty in this context....which means, Obama's father could be martian. It wouldn't matter. In this case, the lack of disqualification doesn't MAKE disqualification. He's good untill a court answers that question otherwise...and it'd take the Supreme Court for that BIG question out of the Document itself, IMO.

* On past demands for a Birth Cert

It's happened. Multiple times. McCain had to address his birth status as a technical issue. Technical as it may have been though, the Senate did look at it and find the Canal Zone was American...so qualified he was. Eisenhower was made to show his certificate as well. No one doubted our 5 star General was a true American...but back then technical things mattered and he showed it, as history records, without fanfare. Candidate Hubert Humphrey got to play show and tell as well, as I understand it.(there is another...I keep forgetting)


I hope that helps a bit.... I'm too tired to source all this and I've done it at least twice per point, in other ATS threads over the past few months. I once was a "birther" myself...but now I am reformed and say, lets move on folks! (He's done enough other real stuff to get him for, eh?)

Originally posted by BrianG
of those who say yes, did you ever doubt or were you always sure?

Did you need to see proof?

And no I won't drop it, it is still relevant.

Next I am going to do JFK

I never ever doubted. I was always sure. Why? Because the origin of the rumor was traced to a misguided Clinton campaign worker in Iowa. Further if it WERE true, it would have been repeated by Hillary during the campaign. Going even further, the people trying to discredit the president themselves are extremely oily and shady. Why would I trust some random nut job?

Originally posted by BrianG

Originally posted by Kaploink
I was always sure. Do you really think presidential candidates are not checked by government agencies to see if they meet the requirements to be president? The government which has access to all the records including birth certificates.

okay that is what I wanted to hear - somebody who is on a conspiracy web site but trusts their government and it systems of "checks and balances"

I'm on a Conspiracy website not so much because I think everything is a conspiracy. But because I know there are some people out there that do, and I think it is important to know what the less sane segment of society is thinking at all times.

I never had any reason to doubt his past, just like I have had no reason to doubt the past of previous Presidents.