Involution and Evolution - Mentioned in Early Church Gospel of the Nazarenes

One thing I realize about the Bible is this: Scripture requires keys to be opened properly. As I read the writings of early church fathers, it becomes clear that these keys are scattered around and tucked into quite corners of other scriptures. All continents on the Earth contain writings that hold these keys. As I was reading the Gospel of the Nazarines last night, I found one of these little jewel verses that offers clues to our reality.

Gospel of the Nazarenes (Lection 88)

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

Involution is turning in on one's self (within). Compare this to Luke 17:

20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

Consider this Esoteric source:

The reason for involution is Delight - the Delight of Being (the Spirit or Absolute) moving to Delight of Becoming (temporal existence, the cosmos). Being throws itself forward into a multiplicity of forms, becoming lost in the inconscience of matter,[3] and then through evolution it partakes in the Delight of rediscovering the Spirit which had been hidden in the interim.

Evolution is thus the movement forward by which the created universe evolves from its initial state of inconscience (i.e. as matter), evolves animated life forms and mental beings (i.e. humans), and continues to evolve spiritual properties, and in that process rediscovers its Source. Such an Evolution of animated forms is only possible because at each stage of development, the developing entity contains within itself the conception of what it may become. Thus, the evolution of animated life out of matter supposes a previous involution of that animated capacity. This is akin to a seed that already has the essence of the tree that will emerge from it.

Each plane emerges from an earlier plane through the evolutionary process, which takes place in chronological time. But in a parallel construction, each of these new planes can be understood as being a descendent of its corresponding higher order plane from the Infinite. Thus, when mentality emerged in the universe, the universal plane of Mind was implanted to a degree in those beings harboring that mentality.

The evolution is the development of all entities in the cosmos, including humans, in order to attain their fulfillment, including the discovery of spiritual Delight, which was, and always is, the experience of the Source Creator. The evolution is the progressive development from the original inconscience of matter into life (movement, sensation, desire, etc. and living physical beings), and from thence to mind (in conscious animals and most especially humans - the self-conscious thinking animal), and from thence to spiritualized mind, culminating in the The Supermind or Truth Consciousness (as supramental individuals, and finally the supramental, i.e. a divine life on earth.) [4]

WIKI

Are you a human having a spiritual experience, or a Spiritual being having a human experience?

You may be asking me why I would turn to such sources for information. The answer is found in pride. Pride can blind and truth is found in all places you look. The way to know the truth is by eliminating pride and knowing truth by its fruit.

Let me give you the KEY to what I just said. If you compare Theosophy (Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law) to Jesus (Do unto others), you get the answer to this. Giving and receiving is God's will. Taking is the will of the thief. Knowledge is neutral to this will. God gives to those who seek. What they do with this knowledge is expressed by the will to give and receive or the will of the thief to take and hide. Know them by their fruit. Either way, knowledge is the light that God gives to those who seek. Pride blinds and if you are blind, you will miss the truth that is there to be found.

Back to the verse:

12. For by involution and evolution shall the salvation of all the world be accomplished: by the Descent of Spirit into matter, and the Ascent of matter into Spirit through the ages.

Here is another VERY important point to make. Can you take salvation by your own works? NO. Can you gain salvation by spiritual enlightenment and your own works? No. The salvation spoken of above is not your work. It's the work of Christ in and through us. God is raising His Son. Through His son, we are raised with Christ.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This single point again defines the will of man apposed to the will of God. Salvation is a gift of God and not from the will of the thief. Again, we have a distinction between the Theosophical (Esau) view and that of Jacob (Truth).

Evolution is the obvious result and not the central cause of all life. Evolution is a process to raise life from baptism (Immersion into reality). We are here to rise to salvation. The descent of Spirit is the easy part to define in this case. God's Spirit is the third aspect of light. Light is both particle and wave, but consciousness (Spirit) collapses the wave function of indeterminate probability to make choice. In this life, we do two things: We think and we move. All other aspects of reality are produced for us and not by us. The Earth turns, your hair grows and the laws of nature govern your actions. Free will can only do one thing: Believe or remain Ignorant (Ignore Truth).

The reason you identify with what I am saying, no matter how hard your heart, is because truth is written on your heart already. Ignorance is associated with death and misery. Truth and life is associated with peace and harmony. Ignorance is multiplicity and Truth is unity. Ignorance divides. Truth Unites. Cognitive dissonance is created when the heart and mind do not agree. Bias is engaged by pride and ignorance. When you finally decide to drop the bias against God and engage humility, peace and harmony allow you to rise to salvation. You can only collapses this wave by faith.

Hebrews 11 (Quantum Mechanics of Salvaion))

Faith in Action

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

As you read the verses above, notice that your heart and mind agree. This is truth and those chill bumps you get when truth is expressed verify that you are in the right place at the right time.

Deny ignorance and embrace Truth.

Lection 89

Speaking to Peter with allusion to the church age:

9. And yet another shall arise and he shall teach many things which I have taught you already, and he shall spread the Gospel among the Gentiles with great zeal. But the keys of the Kingdom will I give to those who succeed thee in my Spirit and obeying my law (Law of Love).


Daniel 12

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

From the WIKI linked above:

Delight

Delight is Sri Aurobindo's term for ananda, and plays a large part in his cosmology and spiritual teaching. Delight is the reason for creation, by which The Absolute extends its Delight of Being into multiplicity, losing itself in the inconscience and then through Delight rediscovering Itself through individuals realising their Divine nature and proceeding to spiritual realisation.

In other words, the universe was created so that the Delight of the Infinite Spirit can manifest in all the forms of creation. When we discover our higher nature, the soul and spirit, we experience the delight for which we were came into being and of which we are a part.

Ignore(ance) robs you of what God gave you by this life you live. Bias blinds and pride destroys. Humility restores and makes all things new again. Love God and love others for unity, peace and everlasting life. It's pretty simple. God's law is love. Love others considering yourself one with them. God is ONE.

AtOneMent is atoning for your sin. This is not a work you can do alone: Christ did this for you as a gift. Unity is returning to being One with God through His Son. If you are against God, you are a house divided against itself.

Confucius:

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."

"Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star."

"Speak the truth, do not yield to anger; give, if thou art asked for little; by these three steps thou wilt go near the gods."

"For all Confucius knew, what did he not know 500 years before Christ? The way was clear to Confucius and the truth to the philosophers, yet they knew not the life. Do you?" STM

Thanks for the share of your wise insight.

Involution - Evolution

Magnetism - Electricity

The poles on the axis of creation, with its center being our center.

As above so below!

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I may regret this later, but I admire your application of scripture to the occult philosophies. This is where science and spirit can meld for the greater good of mankind.

And as you said...we are all just the Infinite Source experiencing itself, and our evolution will come from spirit transcending matter.

Good thread.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I may regret this later, but I admire your application of scripture to the occult philosophies. This is where science and spirit can meld for the greater good of mankind.

And as you said...we are all just the Infinite Source experiencing itself, and our evolution will come from spirit transcending matter.

Good thread.

Regret is a negative emotional reaction. Emotion is energy in motion and regretting emotion in this case would be regretting a positive emotion. No need to regret the positive. I like your words above and I would only differ on one of them: Just.

Saying that we are just or merely the infinite source experiencing itself is incorrect. God is not us and we are not God. We are a created image of God, made for His good pleasure.

The thinking that we are merely God having fun is not accurate. God is already unity and is eternal. He does not change. We are a creation of this unity and are multiplicity until we see our source. We are not the source. It's a mystery that was revealed in this book:

Ephesians 1

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

The finger of fate points at Christ and not us. God gives dominion to one over all. We are still many in one body and all of us are cut from the same loaf and poured out from the same cup. This is true, yet individuality and autonomy will never end. We will always be together, yet individual. Creation does not end with unity of mind. It expands to include more of itself in fellowship one to the other. Conceptually, the easy out to this is to say we are all God or that we are all gods. This is not the case. God is One and we are many creations of the One.

And also in this chapter:

Acts 17

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Theosophy is a corruption of the truth by the will to take in pride. God gives and we receive. When we go beyond this by taking for self, we rob others and ourselves. Taking reward ends in suffering. There was never a time in history that the truth was revealed in its totality until Christ came the first time. The second coming will bring clarity to the mystery and remove the veil. The word of God speaks the truth and it's only our own pride that says we are God. We are not God. We are children being raised and adopted into God's family. No orphan does anything to deserve adoption. The Father that adopts does the work. It's not deserved but done by love. The orphan and the father are not the same entity.

It seems that your posts ends at pure nonduality where everything is one whole and we are the parts and the ones that are ready is invited.and the ones who are not need to evolve a little more. I always cannot understand why people who read the bible cannot see what Jesus say plainly from my point of view. What you do to your soulbrothers and soulsisters you do to Jesus. And since Jesus is part of the whole and the lines between him and the whole get fuzzy in the light what you do to Jesus you also do to the whole. What you do to your soulbrothers and soulsisters you will in the end do to yourself.

Matthew 25:31-46

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I do not belive go away to eternal punishment since they can only go that way if they forever stay disconnected and that is really hard. And eternal life has always been, just a lot of birthamnesia when you have to lose the knowledge you have.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


You are correct on this that God is long-suffering. Baptism is immersion into the water for repentance. If we step back and see what Christ meant by, "You must be born again," it become clear. We are invited into this life to repent of what came before. This is our immersion into the water of life. As children, this is a simple thing of being the prodigal son. For the adult soul, there comes a point at which a final judgment comes. We produce this by our choices to repent and rise to newness of life or sink into the darkness by shunning the light. In either case, we light the fire we burn by or we use the fire to shine the light on the path for others. God divides the light from the darkness and we have the choice to use the fire either direction. Unfortunately, many fail to see the point of baptism. We are here to repent and find the one thing that fulfills the law. LOVE.

Great comments. Thank you.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

And since Jesus is part of the whole and the lines between him and the whole get fuzzy in the light what you do to Jesus you also do to the whole.

Jesus isn't here right now, so let's focus on what we do to each other. He's not in the picture, and really, if I were to stab someone, their first thought wouldn't be, "Jesus, close this wound for me." It would be "OH GOD, WHY!!!"

Jesus is irrelevant at this point in time. What's relevant is you, and me, and everyone around us. We have to fight for ourselves. It's sad, but true. So enough about Jesus. We're what's real right now.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Just because you can not see yeshua doesn't mean he isn't here. Can you see your brain? No so how do you know it's there. Just as your brain is in your head so is Christ in are bodies.

Originally posted by rasta420
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just because you can not see yeshua doesn't mean he isn't here. Can you see your brain? No so how do you know it's there. Just as your brain is in your head so is Christ in are bodies.

Christ in our bodies? How is that so?

Originally posted by guitarplayer

Originally posted by rasta420
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just because you can not see yeshua doesn't mean he isn't here. Can you see your brain? No so how do you know it's there. Just as your brain is in your head so is Christ in are bodies.

Christ in our bodies? How is that so?

Science understands that we are a wave of light collapsed to render matter by the duality of light (particle and wave). What they miss is consciousness (Spirit). The Bible calls it word (information). Collapsing wave function is the same as collapsing memory locations in a game space on a computer. Does the Wifi run through you right now? How many online games are being played as the wifi passes by your inability to sense the waves? Just because we do not sense the wave of creative energy surging through our domain of reality in no way implies that it is not there.

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

And since Jesus is part of the whole and the lines between him and the whole get fuzzy in the light what you do to Jesus you also do to the whole.

Jesus isn't here right now, so let's focus on what we do to each other. He's not in the picture, and really, if I were to stab someone, their first thought wouldn't be, "Jesus, close this wound for me." It would be "OH GOD, WHY!!!"

Jesus is irrelevant at this point in time. What's relevant is you, and me, and everyone around us. We have to fight for ourselves. It's sad, but true. So enough about Jesus. We're what's real right now.

John 2 can reply to this from the living Word.

23 Now while he was in Jerusalem at the Passover Festival, many people saw the signs he was performing and believed in his name. 24 But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all people. 25 He did not need any testimony about mankind, for he knew what was in each person.

It's important to know God and His Son, but it's even more important to realize that we are fully known. God offers the gift of faith as His work in us. The offer can be denied for sure. It's a gift and gifts can only be received or sent back. The heart knows. Emotion can control the heart. So can intellect. Impenetrability says that the stronger will rule the weaker. We are entirely responsible for setting the higher against the lower. God does the rest by faith.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thank you so much Brother,

I love you so much and your Wisdom is much appreciated in a world depraved of Truth and Knowledge,

Your fellow brother and prisoner locked away in Christ Jesus eternally,

With Love, Hope, Truth and Wisdom,

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by guitarplayer

Originally posted by rasta420
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Just because you can not see yeshua doesn't mean he isn't here. Can you see your brain? No so how do you know it's there. Just as your brain is in your head so is Christ in are bodies.

Christ in our bodies? How is that so?

Science understands that we are a wave of light collapsed to render matter by the duality of light (particle and wave). What they miss is consciousness (Spirit). The Bible calls it word (information). Collapsing wave function is the same as collapsing memory locations in a game space on a computer. Does the Wifi run through you right now? How many online games are being played as the wifi passes by your inability to sense the waves? Just because we do not sense the wave of creative energy surging through our domain of reality in no way implies that it is not there.

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

edit on 1-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

This is something I never really thought of - my son and I were talking about "Angels" and "Demons" this morning, I tried to explain to him that i didn't feel that the heaven and hell were so much of a "place" as a state - because we know that our bodies "die" but the spirit continues - thus our "spirit" goes into another state.

I then told him I had a feeling that Angels were simply beings already in that state - the heaven/hell was more of a connection (or lack thereof) to the creator... but this type of description would make ZERO sense to the average person - and hence wouldn't scare anyone into "belief" in the creator... so instead "hell" is a burning fire pit

But this little gem of "wifi runing through you" is actually a VERY good demonstration for what exists out there and in us... and one we KNOW is there (science junkies need to "know").

reply to post by EnochWasRight


First off I wanted to comend you on this post. You've taken a step back and saw the picture as a whole. Not to many people are able to do that. To often people think that i you either have to choose science or religion.... I have always thought of science as a way to explain the things that god has interwoven into creaton, in escence the how not the why.

There is one thing that I do disagree with you on though. Jesus isn't the only way to salvation, Do you really think that Jesus visited every planet with concious life and died for them so that they were forgiven?

The key to Jesus was forgivness. Forgivness for all your sins. It's the belief that your sins are forgiven that allow you to live in a harmonic frequency. The belief that your no longer condemned for your actions mistakes and things you feel honest remorse for doing. It's those waves that you speak of that god is in. In all frequencies around us. It is moving our soul into that state of love that best interacts with "the god waves". This is what Jesus understood. He also understood that there is more than one way to get your body vibrating at this frequency. It is because of his understanding of this tha he said...

"I am the way the truth and the light, no one gets to the father except through me" It is because Jesus understood these harmonies and came to the understanding that the world would not wholly understand this he said this quote. So that those who believe and try and access that connecton through forgivness and love realine there body frequencies.

That is my take of it, and honestly im not sure how well I out it down on paper so to speak, so ask if you have any questions..

reply to post by gncnew

This is something I never really thought of - my son and I were talking about "Angels" and "Demons" this morning, I tried to explain to him that i didn't feel that the heaven and hell were so much of a "place" as a state - because we know that our bodies "die" but the spirit continues - thus our "spirit" goes into another state.

I then told him I had a feeling that Angels were simply beings already in that state - the heaven/hell was more of a connection (or lack thereof) to the creator... but this type of description would make ZERO sense to the average person - and hence wouldn't scare anyone into "belief" in the creator... so instead "hell" is a burning fire pit

But this little gem of "wifi runing through you" is actually a VERY good demonstration for what exists out there and in us... and one we KNOW is there (science junkies need to "know").

Right. It's like the Simms inside the computer trying to figure out what our reality was like. Finding that they are Word (programming) in the form of energy (collapsing memory locations from a hard drive) would not engage their mind sufficiently to explain matter and substance. We look at God's Word and Wave and lack the same perspective and frame of reference. We have trouble looking up for answers, yet when we look down at the Computer and microcosm, we suddenly have a metaphor for this:

John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Whatever is on the other side of our reality is yet another reality of consciousness and information. What brought that about? Who can guess? It is sufficient to know that we have a metaphor for the process and we repeat that process exactly. Our consciousness collapses wave function just like the user of the computer collapses memory locations from a hard drive. Choices with the joystick and character we command determine the changing game-board. In our reality, our choices are indeterminate probability until we collapse the wave and make it determined. Law (Bios) governs the entire process. At the end of the day, God is divine. Even the errors in this reality serve a purpose before we get to the incorruptible reality of paradise.

God is raising children. We are only children of God until we are no longer children.

11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

reply to post by openeyeswideshut

There is one thing that I do disagree with you on though. Jesus isn't the only way to salvation, Do you really think that Jesus visited every planet with concious life and died for them so that they were forgiven?

What you say is true, but remember this. By taking a step back to see the broad picture, you also need to reduce to the root. Jesus is this first and foremost:

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Yes, Jesus came into time as a kinsman. This is true. This also has a root that extends to the beginning as the seed. He died on a cross. Yes and also true. That death on the cross was yet another symbol to point us back to the true cross. The root of the cross is Jesus giving himself to produce the cosmos and all life. Man is patterned from the Son of God, the first born of all creation. His soul is the stamp for the clay seal that is humanity. He gave of himself so that we could all rise again as his body, cut from one loaf and poured from one cup. Do you see it? His death on the cross was simply a symbol pointing us back to the Universe as God giving of Himself for us to rise to new life.

When we say that we are one body in Christ (The Church), what are we saying? We take of the bread and cup. What does this mean. We come into the waters of baptism (immersion of the soul into matter) so that we can rise again with Christ as one body? Do you see it? Reduce to the root.

What is baptism? Something we all do when we are saved as a symbol for what it represents. Christ is the same concept as Adam Kadmon, yet He was also the man that came as the symbol for the process that was engaged before the universe was produced. Again, what is baptism? Is it the act we do that happens here in the world or is it the symbol that points us back to the root story? What is the temple? Is it the stone building or the body that God resides in here in the material world?

Christ died so that we could have life.

I put this sentence here by itself for a very important reason. Go back to the verse at the top. What is Christ? All of us as one body. Those who see the light will stay with the light. Those who willingly separate themselves from loving Christ (the body of love and unity) get their wish by choice.

What is an image? When you look in a mirror, is the image you? How about a picture? What should this verse tell you about your soul here in the image? It's not you. The consciousness behind the veil of forgetfulness is you. From one, many.

1 Corinthians 10

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

18 Consider the people of Israel: Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? 19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?

Put Christ in the middle as the loaf. We are cut from the loaf and some steal as thieves for themselves. The church gives to the body and unity of the whole. Who will be separated in the above verses?

God is One. He took unity and extended it to multiplicity so we could have fellowship with him as autonomous creations from the first. The Son is in and through us all--even the wicked who steal the light.

There might be many ways to Christ, but Christ is the wave of creation and the Son (Word) of that wave that is in and through us all. We cannot escape it, but we can be divided from it by our own will.

reply to post by openeyeswideshut

There is one thing that I do disagree with you on though. Jesus isn't the only way to salvation, Do you really think that Jesus visited every planet with concious life and died for them so that they were forgiven?

The book of Ephesians outlines this. Jesus (Kinsman of Humanity) was the firstfruits of this new Adam that will occupy a new Heaven and Earth. We are Israel, the chosen to spread the light. It's all symbolism for what it represents. We are to exit Egypt (Earth) for a promised land across a wilderness (Heaven). We will likely travel on an Arc. Read Ephesians. The mystery is outlined. It speaks of families in heaven and the fact that we will rule this inheritance. Egypt (Earth) was the smelting furnace to develop our sentience by will. We will take God's Word (DNA) to the farthest reaches of this reality. How are Angels brought into reality? Did God simply snap fingers or were they refined? Is our refinement part of there's as well? Just because we don't see it does not imply that it is not there. Just because we are limited does not imply that God is limited.

Deuteronomy 4

19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

I assume that other places in the universe are stories of word just like this one. Ours has a Hitchhiker's Guide called Deuteronomy that will be used as instructions for the next week of existence on a new Earth and in a new Heavens. This does not imply somehow that Heaven will be destroyed. Our heaven will be destroyed and our Earth with it. We move on.

Our Soul is Word and information can be saved or lost. Is the acorn an enfolded oak tree or is the oak tree an expanded acorn? Yes.

reply to post by openeyeswideshut

The key to Jesus was forgivness. Forgivness for all your sins. It's the belief that your sins are forgiven that allow you to live in a harmonic frequency. The belief that your no longer condemned for your actions mistakes and things you feel honest remorse for doing. It's those waves that you speak of that god is in. In all frequencies around us. It is moving our soul into that state of love that best interacts with "the god waves". This is what Jesus understood. He also understood that there is more than one way to get your body vibrating at this frequency. It is because of his understanding of this tha he said...

The problem was never the sin. The problem was ignorance. Developing love in a sentient being is not something that can be programmed. It is by experience only. It can't be heard or seen to be engaged as metacognition. It must be experienced by will. Choice is the only mechanism and this mechanism was given a reality to engage toward one polarity or the other.

Confucius said, "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand."

What is the law for? It governs and protects one from the other.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Faith is the ability to collapse wave function from indeterminate to determinate. Faith is given to those who love and frustrated for those who do not. Law is the mechanism for this. Pride blinds and Humility opens the eyes. Law is responsible. Gifts are given to those who are responsible. It is denied to those who are not. Opportunity is opened to those who open themselves to it. Opposite for those who do not.

Why?

It's law. The law governs the thief. If you smoke, you get cancer. Taking reward causes a debt and suffering. If you workout in a gym, health increases. Suffering work creates reward. Sin causes suffering because it is stealing. We are here to find this out.

When we do get it, then we fulfill the law with love. Love can only give and receive. Why are we trillions in debt as a world? We are thieves and we express the will to take.

There are two wills and only one of them keeps us free. If we take, we are imprisoned and tyranny reigns. Do you see the results from history? Where there is no justice, the people suffer. The thieves rule and sin expresses suffering by the law. We reverse this by giving. It's simple. Justice requires the end to the thief. We will show why God sends people to hell. As soon as the moneychangers end our peace, the people will judge. We are patterned by God's law in this manner.

Global Financial Meltdown

Of course, we won't be alone:

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Who will we judge?

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Remember, Baptism is the immersion of the soul into the water of life. We are supposed to rise to new life. Repentance is the act of coming into the water. Many do not even realize? Why?

"Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering." (Luke 11:52)

The experts of the law know the truth and hide it from us. They are thieves and this is why they are losing their vineyard.

reply to post by openeyeswideshut

"I am the way the truth and the light, no one gets to the father except through me" It is because Jesus understood these harmonies and came to the understanding that the world would not wholly understand this he said this quote. So that those who believe and try and access that connecton through forgivness and love realine there body frequencies.

Don't get me wrong on presenting all the posts. I am showing you my perspective and we all see it differently. See this LINK. You are correct on it, but there is a plan that was known and a perspective that can be see at the root. It was and is engaged as planned. God does after all the lost sheep and developing our faith is his work in us. Our work is belief. At the end of this process, only Christ can boast. He is the Lord leading us through the trials in the wilderness and the Shepherd of the process. God is raising His Son. We are raised with Him, yet the entire thing was for Him. We were produced with the Son as our Father.

1 Colossians 1:

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

This is the point of Jesus saying, "I and the Father are one." Of course, this is also true for God and Jesus being one.

Some are Spiritual beings having a human experience!

Some (because they aren't chosen) are humans having a spiritual experience and some (because they aren't even called) are humans having a human experience.

Work that one out!