POST SANDY: "People are turning on each other -- they're attacking each other"

reply to post by loam


The question is how widespread is it, and what are they targeting?

In a population as large as that there are bound to be small groups of people grabbing what they can. They would probably be out mugging and robbing on any other day of the week too. This is nothing unusual and unless there is a marked rise in crime (which is already high in the region) it's pretty meaningless.

And if they are going after survival supplies, more power to them. If things are as bad as people are saying, with no supplies in certain areas and no access to essentials, then there has to be a certain amount of leniency. When it comes to genuine survival all bets are off and all sense of ownership can be pretty much disregarded.

I'm not saying it's bad enough to justify that, but how long would it take you before you were out there looking for water, food, batteries and fuel? And would you see the difference between walking into a burnt out store seeking something or taking it from the collapsed rubble of a house?

I don't think there is much of a story here, and that's probably why the MSM isn't bothering to report it. Some random people being arrested for taking something does not mean that widespread looting is going on.

Originally posted by Rocks123
From NY, eyewitness & victim

Oh my goodness, that report sounds absolutely terrifying, people being robbed, fighting, destruction - it's like some horrific, disaster movie script

Thanks for posting a link to that thread. I hope the OP reposts soon.

reply to post by loam


But, she has phone service, and electricity, and her neighbor is letting her use the internet. She lives just blocks from the shoreline on Coney Island.

I'm not taking that one too serious either.

reply to post by loam

By the end of next week, even if Obama is re-elected, we will see the real nightmare unfold. There will be reporting galore about the disaster. Mark my words on this too.

Yes, you can underline that one.

I just want to add one more thing here to what you and others have already said about the sad lack of response by authorities, and the lack of empathy apparent by some citizens.

Hurricane Sandy was a category 2 when it hit Cuba and the Caribbean and killed seventy people in the area according to the highest count I can find. From the photos you can see the devastation to the light structures built in the mostly poor communities sections of those towns that it hit.

Now here is the thing.

Hurricane Sandy was downgraded to a tropical storm when it hit the US Eastern seaboard. Of course it was still damn big, but it wasn't as strong as it was earlier. And yet, at last count there were NINETY people killed by it in America.

It kind of beggers reason doesn't it, that it could kill more people as a tropical storm in the US than it did as a category 2 hurricane in the Caribbean? That makes me stop and wonder about the measures taken by the authorities in the US to protect their own citizens.

I think this should be a wake up call to everybody. Why does a bad economy mean the welfare and safety of US citizens in their own cities should be sacrificed?

Originally posted by rjsfun
I've grown up, lived, and worked in the Colorado mountains for my entire life. I am not the shaggy uneducated mountain hick typical stereotype.
One of the big problems I see with cities and city folk is how much they rely on technology and other people/services to make it through a standard day. Take any of those away, and they cannot take care of themselves.
Up at my house (around 10,000 feet), my community and myself live with our own services. We cut wood for our stoves and heat, we have huge propane tanks, well water, septic tanks, personal snow plow vehicles, warm clothes and lots of extra food. Living far away from modern conveniences makes you stock up on "survivables".
During summer/spring high wind events and winter snow storms, we loose power up to two times a month, sometimes for over a week in duration. This is normal. This is life. For those of us with generators, most are hooked up to run off the 500 gallon propane tanks. The others who run on standard fuel, run them only long enough to to take care of desired tasks.
I am not shocked by the actions of looters and angry citizens on the east coast. They have had thier hands held for most of their city life, and when things aren't taken care of for them, they do not comprehend or understand providing for themselves. This even with over a weeks notice!
I have been evacutaed three times from my current house. Not from hurricanes or floods, but from wildfires. Sometimes with only 15 minutes notice. There have been times when almost a week has gone by before allowed to return. You do get the occasional angry community member (usually a transplant from the city) who is outraged and demands to return home to an unsafe environment, but for the most part, that is the price you pay when living in the mountains.
I choose to live out of the busy corporate world. A world where half the people have more money than brains, and the under-privileged rely on crime and violence. The city with city thinking is not for me.
It all starts with learning how to take care of yourself.

edit on 2-11-2012 by rjsfun because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-11-2012 by rjsfun because: (no reason given)

It's the old "blame-game" that many of us are drawn to since it insulates us from our own inadequacies, especially when it comes to good old-fashioned survival techniques. It's obvious and truely sad how much ruggedness we've lost to modern technology and "easy living."

The ultimate folly is to think that something crucial to your welfare is being taken care of for you. ~Robert Brault

reply to post by Tallone


People are not scientifically inclined.

You honestly can not say that there was a lack of warning about the severity. Regardless of the label the facts were literally slammed down peoples throats by the. Msm

And people complained about the media hype!

Maybe it is just ignorance I do not know but growing up and living in a cyclone area, you do not become complacent and be prepared for the worse.

Hindsight is an intersting thing.

reply to post by magma

Are you saying 'people' in the Carribbean are "scientifically inclined" and those in New York are not? Or just that folk who are "scientifically inclined" are not those that die in NYC as a result of very large tropical storms... folks like the elderly, the mentally or physically infirm, babes in the cradle, people who live on the ground floor of buildings in flooded areas, or those who are simply homeless and sleeping when the tidal surge hits their tunnel etc etc


No, no. I am talking about the preparation by authorities, or actually the lack of it.

You might expect a lot of people living and working in a city like NYC under the conditions of this current recession to fail to pay serious attention to news warning. What you don't expect, or should not expect anyway, is for the government both local and federal, those you pay taxes to, to overlook adequate preparation for a storm they fully expected. You pay taxes so that the trains run on time, the roads are accessible to your car, that you have adequate access to power and water, and that you and yours and your home are secure, that there are emergency services that actually function during a disaster.

As far back as 1997 a report was put together looking at a scenerio just like Sandy hitting NYC. Yes, they knew a Sandy would hit NYC eventually...

They just never bothered to ensure adequate emergency preparations were in place enough to meet the needs of the population come just such a scenerio. That's what I am talking about here.

It must be corrupt.

Well martial law is being declared in certain areas, so I guess things haven't gotten any better.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Well martial law is being declared in certain areas, so I guess things haven't gotten any better.

Link?

reply to post by khimbar

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Well martial law is being declared in certain areas, so I guess things haven't gotten any better.

Link?

Found this, an ABC On Site Report and I quote "Seaside Heights is under Martial Law.". She says it right after 5:45 in the vid.

reply to post by Tallone


How can you even say this? We've got a thread right here at ATS where skads of people were accusing the media and government leaders of "over hyping" the storm. What the hell else do you propose they should have done than to be as blunt as "get out"?

There are three sets of victims of this storm: 1. the goobers who chose not to get out, 2. those who couldn't get out (and there are some who couldn't...the elderly, the impoverished, the homeless), and 3. those who did and still lost everything.

2/3rds of those victims are blameless for what happened to them. And the other 1/3rd still deserve our compassion because they lost the same as anybody else...they just also chose, willingly chose, to put themselves in danger. But don't blame loss of life in that 1/3rd on the government. I think it was pretty clear that choosing to stay was not the right choice.

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by Tallone

 

There are three sets of victims of this storm: stay was not the right choice.

Actually and unfortunately ONE set of Victims. Those that are without and Need help from others .. period !!

Yes yes .. you have those that did not prepare/evac for the storm. But hindsight is 20/20. There is no more room for "They should have" etc.

The only room left is Help !

If your not gonna help in some way then I suggest you get off the forums and go back to your 70 deg heated chair and eat more pop tarts while Real Peeps are in Dire need of HELP !

I am fed up with the whole "well they had ample time to prep so I dont feel for those that chose to X". Im really flamed about this concept.

I am beginning to think that the US is more interested in when the next Ipad/phone ( whatever personal gadget ) comes out than the lives at risk of hardship or even death.

At least there are a few of us that require our compassion to override judgement.

Lives and children are currently being affected .. and for a long time to come.

In closing .. Help when Help is asked/needed for. You will not lose your self respect. In fact you will gain a little something that you may have lost. ..

JG.

Edit : I am not attacking your post or this thread .. dont take it personally.

reply to post by jaduguru


I assure you there is nothing in your over-the-top rant that is worth taking personally. My comment has nothing that can even remotely be misconstrued to indicate I don't feel compassion for ALL three groups of victims I listed. Nothing in my post indicates I don't believe these people (ALL OF THEM) should be helped in whatever manner we can.

My comment was toward this comment by the other poster:

That makes me stop and wonder about the measures taken by the authorities in the US to protect their own citizens.

How in the wide-wide-world of sports could anyone who was paying attention try to turn this to a lack of proactive measures on the part of government officials? As I stated in my post, there were numerous people accusing the US officials of "hyping" the coming storm, so you can't possibly try to turn what happened to these people into some kind of nonreactive or lack of proactive action from the local and state officials.

Now, are those officials RESPONDING to the aftermath properly? Probably not in all cases, but that doesn't indicate they didn't do what they could prior to the storm arriving.

So in short, shove your pop-tarts, eat your false opinion of me (a person you absolutely don't know) and don't ever try to tell me what forum I should be in again.

k?

Cavuto on FOX now, with person on phone in Stanton Island. Person saying there is NO gov't help anywhere. That people from the neighborhood just dug 3 more bodies from a pile of rubble....that a few officials who where there for a short time, only stood around filling out papers on clip boards while neighbors dug bodies out of piles of muck...they refused to help those people. Then all the officials in orange vests got in cars and left....

Person on phone with Cavuto, said what we are seeing on TV from officials, all saying things are going well...are lies.

Person on phone begging for help for Stanton Island....

I'll watch for a video of this interview and post when I can...

Des

reply to post by Destinyone


How many days do we have to hear consistent reports from Staten Island before someone above Bloomberg gets involved? Has he diverted the resources (trucks, people, etc.) that he had pulled from the area for his beloved marathon back over there yet?

It doesn't sound like it.

Where's Obama? I thought this was going to be a swift, no red-tape, no delay response to make sure people were taken care of. I'm assuming at this point that commitment was to making sure the polling booths are up and running, not making sure the people live through this.

reply to post by Valhall


The fact that here, many days after Sandy, neighbors are digging bodies out of rubble from their neighborhood, and no one is arriving to take those bodies to a morgue, is just awful...really terrible. This is Stanton Island NY, not Haiti after a huge EQ. What the hell is the disconnect in such a small area. The person being interviewed by Cavuto said, they haven't even received food nor water.

Des

Originally posted by Valhall
reply to post by jaduguru
[more/]
So in short, shove your pop-tarts, eat your false opinion of me (a person you absolutely don't know) and don't ever try to tell me what forum I should be in again.

k?

edit on 11-3-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)

Dude .. I told you not to take it personally .. and yet you did.

I have NO opinion of You or anyone else .. I have no Judgements here.

All Im saying is enough is enough .. OK .. got that ?

Peeps are in hard times .. help them.

This thread is NOT about You or My Opinion of You..

Sorry if it came out that way..

JG.

reply to post by jaduguru


Right. The thread is about human beings turning on other human beings. And it's not about blaming the government for not doing what they needed to BEFORE the storm that occurred before that started happening. It's also not about whether you have more compassion than I do, or if I'm helping less than you are.

So now that we're clear on what the thread is and isn't about, we can stay on topic.

New York aint the only place...."attacking each other".