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If my credit card is stolen, all I have to do is report it and the card will be canceled immediately and I’ll only be responsible for a small amount, perhaps fifty dollars, of the debts incurred by the thief. But how would you feel if you phoned to report a stolen credit card and were told, “We’re sorry. The law says that we cannot cancel your credit card for four years from the time you report it, and during those four years, you will be fully and personally responsible for all debts incurred by the thief.” Do you think anyone would accept a credit card under those terms? Of course not.
But those are the contractual conditions the Constitution sets out between us and our elected federal officials. If they incur debts without consulting us and against our will, we cannot remove them from office to stop them from incurring further debts, and we, and our children and grandchildren, are responsible for any further debts they incur during their remaining time in office. We can ask Congress to impeach them, because the Constitution gave Congress the sole power to remove, through the impeachment process, federal officials, but while they have removed a few district judges, they have never in the history of the United States, removed a sitting President, Vice-President, or Member of Congress from office by impeachment.
Our other alternative is to wait until their terms of office, the only time that they can incur debts for which we are responsible and the only time that they are needed to represent us, are up, and then attempt to elect different representatives whom we also will not be able to hold accountable. While they are in office, they have power over us, but we have no power over them.
Originally posted by CalebRight14
reply to post by frazzle
That’s a pretty weak argument Frazzle. Electing officials is nothing like having a credit card.
95+ percent of politicians will lie cheat and steal to keep their voter base happy, and do whatever they want or whatever they think will get them reelected once in office. You should know that by now. Does that suck? Yes, but you don’t get more honest people elected by saying they are all crooks so I’m not voting for any of them. You do it by starting at low levels of office, and electing people that have similar values as you do, and working up and it may take several steps of getting slightly better candadites before you have one you will mostly agree with. You’re not going to be able to start at the president and work down. It has taken a long time for the system to get this bad, and it will take a long time to fix it. It can be done, but it will not get done if people just do nothing.
Originally posted by frazzle
[How happy is anyone's "base" these days? Well, I suppose if you count Goldman Sachs et al you could say some of them are pretty happy.
The system was "fixed" way back in the beginning to ensure that the top one percent would always be in charge and if you haven't noticed it yet, they still are. You have no idea what any given candidate's true values are, local or national. Ever.
Rubio was elected at the age of 28 to the Florida House of Representatives, representing Miami in Florida's 111th House District. He defeated Democrat Anastasia M. Garcia 72%-28%, or 64 votes, in a January 2000 special election.[22][23][24] In November 2000, he won re-election unopposed.[25] In 2002, he won re-election to a second full term unopposed.[26] In 2004, he won re-election to a third full term with 66% of the vote.[27] In 2006, he won re-election to a fourth full term unopposed.[28]
He defeated Democrat Anastasia M. Garcia 72%-28%, or 64 votes
Yesterday, the Federal Election Commission announced it was fining Rubio $8,000 over more than $200,000 in improper contributions to his 2010 campaign. While only about one percent of his impressive total haul, Rubio's campaign accepted excessive contributions from over 100 individuals, two corporate contributions (which are illegal), and also some $26,000 for his primary election after the primary had taken place.
Rubio's also in some trouble over the CardGate scandal, in which top Florida Republican officials (including Rubio) used party credit cards for personal expenses.
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by CalebRight14
He defeated Democrat Anastasia M. Garcia 72%-28%, or 64 votes
Did you do the math on that?
Did you do the math on this?
www.opensecrets.org...
Or this?
nymag.com...
Mom and apple pie.
Originally posted by CalebRight14
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by CalebRight14
He defeated Democrat Anastasia M. Garcia 72%-28%, or 64 votes
Did you do the math on that?
Did you do the math on this?
www.opensecrets.org...
Or this?
nymag.com...
Mom and apple pie.
No I haven't, and wiki may be wrong, but my overall point was that voting matters. What does His campaign contributions have to do with it? I don't know why you think that proves anything. He is now at the top level, would you expect him not to be getting donations? How much money you think he spent to get elected in 2000? I bet it wasn't 26 million.
Edit: Found it, 21,500 spent on his first election.
www.followthemoney.org...edit on 31-10-2012 by CalebRight14 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by frazzle
Originally posted by CalebRight14
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by CalebRight14
He defeated Democrat Anastasia M. Garcia 72%-28%, or 64 votes
Did you do the math on that?
Did you do the math on this?
www.opensecrets.org...
Or this?
nymag.com...
Mom and apple pie.
No I haven't, and wiki may be wrong, but my overall point was that voting matters. What does His campaign contributions have to do with it? I don't know why you think that proves anything. He is now at the top level, would you expect him not to be getting donations? How much money you think he spent to get elected in 2000? I bet it wasn't 26 million.
Edit: Found it, 21,500 spent on his first election.
www.followthemoney.org...edit on 31-10-2012 by CalebRight14 because: (no reason given)
You didn't do the math and now you say wiki may be wrong even though you used it as a source to back up your opinion. Rubio ran unopposed multiple times and still raked in the campaign dough. Why do you suppose that is?
It isn't even that he received campaign donations or how much of it he spent, rather its WHO those donations were from. Money talks and voters are bamboozled.
Originally posted by dazbog
There are times when things can't be " Fixed ". Humpty Dumpty comes to mind.
I firmly believe this is the case with our current situation. About 85% of Americans disagree with
our involvement in the war. Yet, although I can not prove this, I would suggest most will continue to vote for the individuals they voted for in the previous election.
Originally posted by dazbog
I would also suggest that although you feel frazzle presents a weak argument his actual words ring true.
"We can beg, demand, have temper tantrums, and hold our breaths until we’re blue in the face, but we cannot exercise power over them because we have no power over them–the Constitution didn’t give us any."
Originally posted by dazbog
Being from N.Y. I'm familiar with Genovese. An extreme example, that even the most jaded New Yorker found unacceptable. Equally as weak if not more so then frazzles link to electionboycott2012.org. although the actual site presents some interesting arguments for not voting.
Originally posted by dazbog
Personally, I am really torn on whether or not to participate in yet another round of voting for the lesser of two evils.For individuals who think our Constitution is the foundation of a free society Ron Paul was the only candidate worthy of consideration. The Forth Estate felt otherwise. The MSM plays a huge part in who or who will not be heard. Ron Paul said many go to Washington well intended but are eventually corrupted by the system. This implies the " System " is a monster which is beyond the bounds of the elected. Because I do actually understand how the process works, if I do vote , it will not be for either of the two pre-screened talking heads but for locale issues that will have an immediate effect on my life.
Originally posted by dazbog
On youtube there is an excellent speech by Pres. Kennedy. He talks about the powers BEHIND the power ( not elected officials ). If you have the time, give it a listen. Then come back and tell me how my vote counts. Okay ?
You didn't know wiki is wrong sometimes? Glad I could enlighten you. Plenty of people use Wiki as a source, I simply do not believe everything I read. I sourced it because it highlighted my point, which you either are willfully missing, or it is a good thing for the rest of us you're not voting. Even if the number is not 64, he got into politics with very few comparative votes as to what it takes to win a senate seat.
My point has always been, if you're not happy with the system, work to change it, by doing nothing you're hurting yourself because you still have to follow the laws of the land...Or don't.
I'm not advocating Rubio, I don't follow him and I don't know what he may or may not have done. I used him as an example of someone coming from not the 1%, and now in that group, which you said is impossible because the system was made by the rich to keep the rich in power.
On youtube there is an excellent speech by Pres. Kennedy. He talks about the powers BEHIND the power ( not elected officials ). If you have the time, give it a listen. Then come back and tell me how my vote counts. Okay ?