Is HAARP feeding SANDY? (The Conspiracy Side)

Originally posted by liejunkie01
reply to post by SpittinTruth

 

I can tell you that I was somewhat on board with your haarp thing.

But now you have gone to far with the towers.

Please educate yourself on buildings, construction of buildings, gravity and weight, and of course momentum.

Scaler weapons was not needed to bring down the towers. They were heavy objects standing a quarter of a mile in the air. They are fighting gravity all of the time. Take out a few critical components of theitmr structural design and that is what you get.

Now you have done and gone messed up a good haarp conspiracy with a bunch of nonsense. Just quote already, you are making yourself look even more silly......lol......

edit on 31-10-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)

Well...with the...lol....at the end of your statement...i'll take that as a compliment. Also...i can't believe Phage is still arguing this thing? The ONLY WAY...someone could spend that much time, on a topic...is if they're getting PAID! I really didn't think my post would generate 500 comments. I was only asking a question. hahahahahahaha to which i already knew the answer to!

And to think....this was only my SECOND thread, on ATS. Here's my 3rd:
Devastating Photos (Sandy's Path)

I can't believe this one made it to the ATS front page. That was exciting. Wait til my next one...which is coming SOON!

Originally posted by delusion
Specifically, what does the electron temperature being raised by hundreds of degrees actually amount to in real world terms?
What were the consequences of this, or what would they likely be?

How much does the upper atmosphere fluctuate normally in terms of temperature, if it has one at all?
What does temperature mean when we are dealing with the edge of space?

Thanks.

Electron temperature is a measure of how much kinetic energy the free electrons have in the ionosphere. Temperature and particle velocity are directly related. A lot of things raise electron temperature in the ionosphere - but mainly it's the Sun. Electron temperatures vary all over the place depending on things like the latitude, solar activity, whether you're on the day or night side, the electrojet status, hell even if there's been a gamma ray burst nearby. You get temps from maybe 2000 to 10000K, depending on these things. There's a HUGE range naturally. A few hundred degrees isn't a lot.

Originally posted by Jacob1080David
scroll down till you see the pic of the ship based haarp style weapons array. but dont worry, that #in huge behemoth, its only radar. its bigger than an aircraft carrier, but its only radar.

Yep, that's a phased array radar. The only thing "HAARP style" about it is...it's a phased array.

and it definately wasnt with the regan battlegroup heading for south korea, being close to japan on march 07-12 2011. and it definately wasnt in the persian gulf causing the earthquake in iran, then shipped back to the atlantic to prepare to work on this storm. and yes you deniers, i said earthquake.

Yep, I agree with you, it wasn't doing any of those things.

watch that and ill explain something. haarp and other haarp like devices, like the ship based one, and the haarp twin built in the netherlands, they dont power an earthquake, it mostly just triggers it. vibrate an earthquake fault, and the cohesion is broken, the surfaces arent always touching, the earth faults arent always being pressed up against each other, that means there is a huge lapse in the friction force holding the plates and fault in position, and we all know theres is always forces trying to get these faults to slide, just gotta vibrate it enough to provide the lapse in friction to let them slide and start an earthquake. now did i spell that out well enough for the deniers??

EM waves don't cause mechanical forces. And radar at that sort of frequency doesn't penetrate the ground very well. Also, the ship's radar, as studly as it is, doesn't have a huge amount of total emitted power.

Originally posted by Jacob1080David
i do not need to prove that, that is a widely admitted and published ability of haarp, even the operators admit to it, they can push the ionosphere up, and this creates a vacuum underneath that is very quickly filled by incoming rush of air. seriously, 101, go look it up.

If they heat the ionosphere so that it expands, wouldn't it expand uniformly? In that case, it would push down as much as up.

However, what you ought to consider is this - the ionosphere isn't spherical, and it's dynamic. You have a LOT different structure on the day and night sides. These changes in the ionosphere don't cause vacuums and pressure changes at ground level either.

Originally posted by Jacob1080David

i do not need to prove that, that is a widely admitted and published ability of haarp, even the operators admit to it, they can push the ionosphere up, and this creates a vacuum underneath that is very quickly filled by incoming rush of air. seriously, 101, go look it up.

Oh, also, the ionosphere where HAARP operates is a damn good substitute for a hard vacuum anyway. If you heat a near vacuum so that what tiny amount of gas is in there expands, it's not going to create much of a force on the atmosphere below ANYWAY.

Originally posted by Tecumte
How many HAARP based systems exist in the world, on subs, ships, satellites and what is their combined output?

What happens when these systems are used in combination and/or with other technologies?

There are a number of ionospheric heaters in operation around the world.

When you say "HAARP based", though, that's a bit vague. Do you mean ionospheric heaters, or any radio transmitter, or what?

The problem here is that HAARP is just a HF steered beam array. It's a now somewhat dated digital exciter tied to a LOT of power amps, diesel generators, automatic tuning setups, and feeding a bunch of generic HF dipoles. No one part of it is mystic, unless you don't know a lot about radio, in which case it looks pretty spooky I suppose.

When you say "HAARP based", it probably means one thing to you and another to me. I think first "ionospheric heaters for research", then "military spinoff programs", of which there are a few, mostly for communications work of various sorts, either pro or con.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Does that LOOK LIKE a "collapse"?

Yes.

Second sentence.

No-one has yet answered the obvious question of why anyone would want to spend so much time, money and energy in steering a hurricane to go exactly where it was predicted to go in the first place!

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
No-one has yet answered the obvious question of why anyone would want to spend so much time, money and energy in steering a hurricane to go exactly where it was predicted to go in the first place!

Well, it would be GREAT if you could do it on demand, and with perfect control.

If I could do the Simon Bar Sinister weather machine thing and send a hurricane in January to land on Kabul and grind away for a month, then you'd have something useful.

reply to post by Bedlam


The claim was from Eastlund's 2005 Penn State Lehigh lecture and a 2008 conference paper, and was about gravity waves.

To meteorology/weather, gravity waves are important.

According to Earl Everett Gossard already in a 50 year old 1962 paper, 3.6 Megawatts CW power, vertical flux above 80 km altitude of 2.1 x 10^-3 watts/cm^2, over a circle of radius about 30 km already show gravity wave effect.

And the dug up from Phage - first paper ever to research gravity waves from HAARP has confirmed what was predicted.

www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1962/JZ067i002p00745.shtml

JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 67, NO. 2, P. 745, 1962
doi:10.1029/JZ067i002p00745

Vertical flux of energy into the lower ionosphere from internal gravity waves generated in the troposphere

Earl E. Gossard
U.S. Navy Electronics Laboratory, San Diego, California

It has been suggested by C.O. Hines that internal atmospheric gravity waves may account for many of the irregularities observed in the lower ionosphere and that these waves may have their origin in the large energy regions of the lower troposphere. The problem of vertical energy flow in the gravity-wave range of the atmospheric spectrum is examined in the present paper. Observational data on tropospheric internal waves are used to compute the energy density spectra and the spectra of vertical energy flux. It is found that a window can exist at periods of about 10 minutes to 2 hours through which fairly large amounts of energy sometimes flow out of the troposphere. Observational data at D-layer and meteor heights are compared with observations of tropospheric internal waves.

Received 21 September 1961; .

Citation: Gossard, E. E. (1962), Vertical flux of energy into the lower ionosphere from internal gravity waves generated in the troposphere, J. Geophys. Res., 67(2), 745–757, doi:10.1029/JZ067i002p00745.

www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2012/2012GL052004.shtml

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 39, L11101, 4 PP., 2012
doi:10.1029/2012GL052004

F2-region atmospheric gravity waves due to high-power HF heating and subauroral polarization streams

Key Points

High-power HF heating generates atmospheric waves
SAPS generates atmospheric waves
The ionosphere-thermosphere coupling can be studied in a controlled fashion

E. Mishin
Space Vehicles Directorate, Air Force Research Laboratory, Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, USA

E. Sutton
Space Vehicles Directorate, Air Force Research Laboratory, Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, USA

G. Milikh
Department of Astronomy, University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland, USA

I. Galkin
Center for Atmospheric Research, University of Massachusetts, Lowell, Massachusetts, USA

C. Roth
Atmospheric and Environmental Research, Lexington, Massachusetts, USA

M. Förster
GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences, Potsdam, Germany

We report the first evidence of atmospheric gravity waves (AGWs) generated in the F2 region by high-power HF heating and subauroral polarization streams. Data come from the CHAMP and GRACE spacecraft overflying the High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) heating facility. These observations facilitate a new method of studying the ionosphere-thermosphere coupling in a controlled fashion by using various HF-heating regimes. They also reveal the subauroral F2 region to be a significant source of substorm AGWs, in addition to the well-known auroral E region.

Received 11 April 2012; accepted 2 May 2012; published 1 June 2012.

Citation: Mishin, E., E. Sutton, G. Milikh, I. Galkin, C. Roth, and M. Förster (2012), F2-region atmospheric gravity waves due to high-power HF heating and subauroral polarization streams, Geophys. Res. Lett., 39, L11101, doi:10.1029/2012GL052004.

reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo

To meteorology/weather, gravity waves are important.

The gravity waves induced by HAARP were found in the F2 region. That is 200 to 800 km above the surface of the Earth. That is space. Satellites orbit in that region. The gravity waves were detected by satellites.

There is a great lack of evidence that anything occurring at that altitude has any effect on weather. There is a great lack of evidence of any downward coupling between the ionosphere and the troposphere.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
No-one has yet answered the obvious question of why anyone would want to spend so much time, money and energy in steering a hurricane to go exactly where it was predicted to go in the first place!

Well, it would be GREAT if you could do it on demand, and with perfect control.

If I could do the Simon Bar Sinister weather machine thing and send a hurricane in January to land on Kabul and grind away for a month, then you'd have something useful.

If you could do that you'd be a God. Although by definition it's impossible.

But fact is, HAARP (as alleged by some in terms of weather control) is like a shaman having seen a cold front approaching in the distance, saying it's going to rain. It appears to be only able to cause what was going to happen anyway.

But given HAARP is also alleged to assist mind control, did HAARP make lots of people dress up in fancy dress and go around peoples houses asking for treats last night? I think so! Whatever other explanation is there?

reply to post by wujotvowujotvowujotvo


Made a typo; 2.1 x 10^-3 watts/cm^2 should be meters - 2.1 x 10^-3 watts/m^2

Uploaded the fulltext of 1962 paper here, 974KB pdf

jjjtir.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/jz067i002p00745.pdf

Overlooked an obituary, Earl Everett Gossard died 2009. The Memoriam is open access from IEEE.

ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=04939041

In Memoriam: Earl Everett Gossard

This paper appears in:
Antennas and Propagation Magazine, IEEE
Date of Publication: Feb. 2009
Author(s): Strauch, R. G. , Hooke, W. H.
Volume: 51 , Issue: 1
Page(s): 143 - 144
Product Type: Journals & Magazines


Abstract

Recounts the life and career of Earl Everett Gossard, an American Meteorological Association Fellow, who passed away on January 27, 2009, at his home on Fortuna, California.

Commented many pages back - have been visiting to read some of the many posts arguing the science and philosophy of HAARP. I believe that HAARP is a technology that is basically working in untested scientific ground. I have a few questions for the posters who are arguing that HAARP is not an element involved with Sandy or indeed any weather control/modification.

1. If HAARP is merely government science technology - why don't taxpayers know about it - why aren't Students being educated and informed of HAARP technology at school?

2. If HAARP isn't being utilised as weather control/modification then what is its actual purpose?

3. Without detailing the science in explicit form - what is HAARP doing?

4. If the cabal/illuminati/whatever or government bodies who use taxpayers money to build technology such as HAARP cannot be transparent - why bother?

5. If HAARP is not controlling or modifying weather and is purely a government technology for the use of government scientists - why isn't it on the mainstream news - front and centre - for everyone to see and know?

I have conducted my research and have formed my opinion and am interested to see whether the above questions can be answered succinctly - in a form that can be understood by everyone - at every literacy level - who will read this post.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Amanda5

1. If HAARP is merely government science technology - why don't taxpayers know about it - why aren't Students being educated and informed of HAARP technology at school?

Because ionospheric research probably isn't of much concern until you get to higher levels of education. Like at the University of Alaska which runs the research at HAARP.

2. If HAARP isn't being utilised as weather control/modification then what is its actual purpose?

Research of the ionosphere and magnetosphere.

3. Without detailing the science in explicit form - what is HAARP doing?

Being used for research of the ionosphere and magnetosphere.

4. If the cabal/illuminati/whatever or government bodies who use taxpayers money to build technology such as HAARP cannot be transparent - why bother?

Huh?

5. If HAARP is not controlling or modifying weather and is purely a government technology for the use of government scientists - why isn't it on the mainstream news - front and centre - for everyone to see and know?

Because the mainstream news finds research rather uninteresting.

Succinct enough?

reply to post by Phage


Thanks for being succinct - you are so fast it's as if you are sitting by the computer and on a mission. Your first answer is why you will not sway me to your thinking. By controlling the educational curriculum and omitting areas of study such as HAARP you are imposing limitations.

I have taught Students who, when I mentioned HAARP could not wait to look it up and explore the subject. High school Students - they want to study beyond what they are currently being given. Your answer might satisfy you and others but you have not shifted me from my stance.

HAARP is funded by taxpayers - they should have absolute access to the premises and its functions. The mainstream news don't feature it because they are controlled - they have an agenda and that is not to let the populous know what is actually going on. If you cannot see this then you are not paying attention. Your science knowledge is lost because it appears to me you are locked in your own paradigm and do not want to explore the concept that you have been lied to by your government. There are lots of people who lie and deceive - documented by medical professionals in the psychiatric diagnostic manual - pathological liars.


Psychology states that when you have been lied to - let's say about HAARP - you will continue to believe the lies - lest your entire world becomes fractured. Comfort is very attractive to people particularly those who have never experienced hardship. Believing that HAARP is only being used for logical scientific practices and not for anything covert is so much easier and so much more comfortable to have in your head when you go to sleep.

When HAARP is included in high school curriculum - then I will know the government do not have anything to hide.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Amanda5

I have taught Students who, when I mentioned HAARP could not wait to look it up and explore the subject.

That's great.

HAARP is funded by taxpayers - they should have absolute access to the premises and its functions.

Why? So those taxpayers can stumble around delicate and possibly hazardous equipment whenever they want? You'll find that there are not many scientific facilities of any sort which allow that. But you'll also find that, like HAARP, they do conduct tours.

The mainstream news don't feature it because they are controlled

The mainstream news does not find ionospheric research interesting enough to bother with. There is a lot of research on a lot of topics that mainstream news finds uninteresting. Lindsay Lohan, though, now that is interesting!

Your science knowledge is lost because it appears to me you are locked in your own paradigm and do not want to explore the concept that you have been lied to by your government.

You don't have enough science knowledge to know that your sources have lied to you about what HAARP is.

Psychology states that when you have been lied to - let's say about HAARP - you will continue to believe the lies - lest your entire world becomes fractured.

Yes. But there is hope for you. If you take the time to really try to understand the science. But that's hard. It's much easier to listen to con-men like Begich.

When HAARP is included in high school curriculum - then I will know the government do not have anything to hide.

If that's your only criterion I would say your standards are pretty low.

Probably a more important question about HAARP is why do we apparently misuse the term so often on ATS?
HAARP stands for High-Altitude Auroral Research Project and only links to one installation in Alaska for many searchers. We use the term a lot on ATS because everybody has their own definition.

Geeks usually get beyond the Alaska installation and access more details about heating the ionosphere to make it more reflective. That usually leads into other declassified information like the Arecibo dish in Puerto Rico. They were using supercooled front end filter/receiving technology in the early 60's to communicate/listen to Russian military installations via signal bounce off the ionosphere. Evolving that and clock technology into the satellite program makes it easier to understand how weather satellites remotely monitor winds and humidity using just the propagation of electronic waves. The data gathered from weather satellites is processed by the different computer models and actually does steer the forecast track of hurricanes.

You can also go the other way history wise back to the German U boat technology that used ionospheric skip to radio home to Germany. Back in those days before ionospheric heaters they relied on weather effects and the Diurnal power variations to transmit radio messages when the ionospheric skip was at its optimum reflectivity.

HAARP is just a *fully declassified* catch all term for this kind of remotely captured E-data that translates into model planning, and eventually even social actions in the form of storm earthquake evacuations and contingency plans.

reply to post by Phage


Your answers are all your thinking and suggesting that I have to think like you. I express my opinion but do not insist that others must think like me.

I never said anything about people traipsing about a facility - that is you not asking probing questions first and making assumptions. People have a right to access a facility that has been paid for with their taxes. If they want a tour there is nothing to suggest the facility management cannot conduct civilised guided tours. Again you are assuming and commenting from your very fixed, very rigid thinking.

My standards are not low. I want my Students to study any subject in which they have an interest. I know that given the opportunity to study an area such as HAARP - they would go all out to find out everything they could. Children in my experience are asking way more questions than I did as a Child and they are asking way more questions than I see on this site.

Students - I give them credit for thinking about their world and not just regurgitating what the government controlled curriculum have given them. You Phage underestimate the Students with whom I communicate. HAARP needs to be front and centre on the news - it is not a news item because people are denied the chance to explore the subject. News items are controlled by those who own the production companies. If news viewers were given articles about HAARP their interest would be piqued but I speak this way because I am a Teacher not a controller.

HAARP is technology that needs to be shared with the populous - they will dictate whether they are interested - not you Phage and not me. I speak from experience with my Students, their parents and citizens and they want to know more and they want to know why information is not flowing freely.

Much Peace...

reply to post by Amanda5

Your answers are all your thinking and suggesting that I have to think like you.

No, I don't particularly care what you think. You can be as wrong as you wish.

If they want a tour there is nothing to suggest the facility management cannot conduct civilised guided tours.

I thought you knew that there were public tours of HAARP. I thought you wanted "free access". You can't expect the scientists working there to drop everything to follow a tourist around.

You Phage underestimate the Students with whom I communicate.

I did no such thing. I said that I thought it was good that they were excited about learning about HAARP. I think stimulating an interest in science is fantastic.

HAARP needs to be front and centre on the news

Why? Do you think the public would be extremely interested in inonospheric research? Do you really think they care about "CLUSTER observations of lower hybrid waves excited at high altitudes by electromagnetic whistler mode signals from the HAARP facility"?

- it is not a news item because people are denied the chance to explore the subject.

Explore away! Here's a start:
scholar.google.com...
(where the above title came from)