George W. Bush; 3rd term

Originally posted by SourGrapes

Originally posted by badgerprints


This isn't universal healthcare. It is mandated commerce.

Correction (sorry, I like you badger, but I just gotta)...it isn't universal healthcare, nor is it so much a mandated commerce (what was originally sold to us...oh, it is much worse) it is actually the absolute LARGEST tax increase on U.S. citizens in history, and the lowest income earners will be the most negatively affected with the middle class coming in a close second.

Obamacare is by far the biggest and baddest EF YOU any politician (friend or foe, foreign or domestic) could have ever thrown our way. GUARANTEED!

No sweat SG
I've just gotten to the point where I can get one coherent line in. I'm usually too frustrated to go on. I've deleted five posts for every one I actually submit lately. It's usually not worth the effort any more.

reply to post by Grambler


Then logic should follow that another term for Obama would be a fifth FDR term.

Originally posted by Sablicious

Originally posted by Grambler
A vote for Romney is a vote for a third Bush term.

Best line of the entire presidential race.

Actually considering the last 4 years, a Bush 4th term.

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Grambler

 

Obama hasn't brought us into any other 'wars' your terminology is misleading and infantile, far as i know there's only a war currently going on in Afghanistan.

So you criticize my terminology? Lets begin with the fact that I never said what you quoted me as saying. Here what I said.

On foreign policy, Obama has not only expanded the military budget;




rogueoperator.wordpress.com...

but he has also expanded the amount of troops we have overseas.




In addition, he has expanded the amount of countries we are in conflict with; now including Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and Libya.

Remember, probably the biggest criticism of Bush by Democrats and others (myself included) was his seemingly never ending wars, which under Obama have continued and expanded.

He increased the military budget, the amount of troops overseas, and the number of countries we have conflict with and he has continued and expanded wars.

None of that says he got us into more wars. All of that is true. And he has continued the wars and expanded them, or do you deny that he hasn't drastically upped the front in Afghanistan.

Secondly, I'll play your game of criticizing terminology. The one "war" you mention is technically not even a war, as Congress never declared war with Afghanistan. It is an occupation. The fact that you try to differentiate it as the only war belittles the deaths of all of the troops/civilians in all of the other places Obama has expanded us into. Mindsets like yours allow people to brush off the death of innocent children in say Yemen from Obamas bombs because "technically its not a war"

Is it "infantile" of me to bring up the following conflicts?

Increased bombings in Yemen kill civilians.

Just this month, a U.S. drone strike against militants in southern Yemen reportedly killed at least 50 people — many of them civilians. Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal quoted unnamed U.S. officials this week saying that the Yemen-based al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula was “placing a higher priority on attacking the U.S. and Western targets overseas.”

www.salon.com...

Bombs in Somalia

A U.S. drone aircraft fired on two leaders of a militant Somali organization tied to al-Qaeda, apparently wounding them, a senior U.S. military official familiar with the operation said Wednesday.

www.nowtheendbegins.com...

Massive civilian casualties from Obamas bombs in Pakistan

"For every 10 to 15 people killed, maybe they get one militant," he said. "I don't go to count how many Taliban are killed. I go to count how many children, women, innocent people, are killed."

The drone strikes are a secret programme run by the CIA to assassinate al-Qaida and Taliban extremists using remote, wild Waziristan as a refuge. The CIA does not comment on drones, but privately claims civilian casualties are rare.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Last but not least Libya. Heres proof of how Obama is using "terminology" exactly like you to allow him to unilaterally attack any country he sees fit.

“The administration’s theory implies that the president can wage war with drones and all manner of offshore missiles without having to bother with the War Powers Resolution’s time limits,” Mr. Goldsmith said.

www.nytimes.com...

I appreciate your attempts to defend Obama, but actually looking at the issues as opposed to misquoting me and then criticizing the exact wording of your misquote while hurling insults at me may be a more successful tactic in the future.

We actually might still be under Bush's rule. Bush may still technically be the president because of a presidential directive that he signed right before leaving office. This is long, and the guys go on some tangents, but it does a perfect job at explaining what may be going on, given the similarities between McCain, Obama, and Romney and the probability that this was all planned. It is, in my opinion, the most revealing unmentioned fact about what's going on with these elections and the rampant corruption in government and the media, as well as the short-term goals of the NWO. You may have already built up your gag reflex when it comes to birthers and their issues, but if you watch this video, I doubt you'll see them the same ever again. As a matter for fact, you'll wonder what the outcry from the media against birthers was all about in the first place....and then you'll blow up your TV for hiding this interesting and frightening information from you. Please, watch it and send it to your friends. People need to know about this BEFORE the election!
radioactivision.com...

reply to post by Grambler


Applaud your effort in trying to educate, but unfortunately for us all it is too late in the game for it to be of any benefit. Just taking a look at some of the responses in various forums, the elite have truly divided the people into "left" and "right" - while they look at the sidelines laughing.

reply to post by Grambler


O you mean the war we were supposed to be at in the first place? Afghanistan? That war? Are we also still in Iraq?

On another note Obama and Bush differ greatly on issues such as ethics and morals, just as both Romney and Obama do, the real reason I'm voting for Obama... equality.

So there is a big difference between candidates, also having a Republican controlled senate for 3.7 years of his presidentcy isn't exactly gonna change a whole lot is it?

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Grambler

 

O you mean the war we were supposed to be at in the first place? Afghanistan? That war? Are we also still in Iraq?

Why are we supposed to be in Afghanistan? What makes that occupation justified? If we were there to get bin Laden, shouldn't we be gone by now? Now we are in a quagmire in a country that doesn't even want us there. Its so bad that the forces are troops are training are actually killing our troops.

And actually Obama the only reason we left Iraq was because of the agreement that Bush signed. Obama tried tooth and nail to break his promise and keep us there.

The last U.S. troops left Iraq in December 2011, while Barack Obama was president, but the “status of forces agreement” that governed the departure of U.S. troops was actually negotiated between Iraqi and U.S. officials in late 2008, under the auspices of President George W. Bush. In fact, none other than the Huffington Post actually pointed out that as president, Obama was actually interested in keeping troops in Iraq past the agreed-upon 2011 deadline, explaining that “the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush.” Just six months before the Bush deadline, Obama tried to foist 10,000 U.S. troops on the Iraqis past 2011.

reason.com...

On another note Obama and Bush differ greatly on issues such as ethics and morals, just as both Romney and Obama do, the real reason I'm voting for Obama... equality.

See these are the things that puzzle me. How is it that Obama is considered a good man and the rest are evil when they do the exact same things? Perhaps you can posts evidence as to how Obama is more moral.

Is going back on your word a sign of morality? Is claiming to be a man of peace and then expanding wars a sign of it? How about lying about getting rid of the Patriot Act, Gitmo, and being transparent?

And as far as equality, who has he been for equality. He is still against gay marriage, and I haven't seen him sign any legislation to help gender or racial discrimination. The only thing I see is that under the NDAA that he passed we are all equal to be detained indefinitely without charges being brought, so in that sense, yes I guess we are all equal.

So there is a big difference between candidates,

No there isn't. You haven't provided one shred of evidence that they would do anything meaningfully different. As I mentioned before, they may sound different, and disagree on issues that don't affect their corporate masters (abortion etc.) but when it comes to liberties, economic and foreign policy they are the same.

also having a Republican controlled senate for 3.7 years of his presidentcy isn't exactly gonna change a whole lot is it?

But a lot has changed, because of him. Now we are in Libya, Somalia, Yemen and other places. Now we have the NDAA. Now we have a kill list.

Here is a thread that you should read that is discussing just how bad its gotten. Because of Obama, we now have an independent Executive (that means the congress has nothing to do with it) body that spies on all info about Americans while simultaneously deciding what the punishment should be for these people, up to and including death, all without any trial.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do sincerely thank you for coming here to defend Obama, and I hope that you read a lot of the evidence that has been provided to see what hes really like.

But the defense here illustrates just how vehemently someone will support their candidate despite all facts; misquotes, name calling, blame the other guys, and if all else fails just claim "my guy is more ethical, all the while ignoring and never addressing tons of evidence while providing none themselves.

reply to post by Grambler


Well if any war was actually justifiable by Bush it would be Afghanistan because that is were Al Queda originated. Therefor my point is we never should have ever been in Iraq.

An article about African Americans maybe staying home since Obama supports marriage equality, something you said he didn't: www.huffingtonpost.com...

Equality for immigrants: Issued directive in June that immigrants brought illegally to the United States as children be exempted from deportation and granted work permits if they apply. Took the temporary step after failing to deliver on promised immigration overhaul, with the defeat of legislation that would have created a path to citizenship for young illegal immigrants enrolled in college or enlisted in the armed forces. Says he is still committed to it. Government has deported a record number of illegal immigrants under Obama

Read more here: www.sacbee.com...=cpy

From his website about further equality: www.barackobama.com...

Also the equality matters to deal with rape and BC, two other items Romney and Obama differ on quite greatly. Just as Obama and Bush differed much over these same issues.

reply to post by NoJoker13


All this talk about equality ...

What about the women who have died as a result of Obama's never ending deluge of drone strikes? What about THEIR reproductive rights? Their CHOICE right? What I decide to do with my body as a woman and all that ... well, they were robbed of that choice to do with their bodies as they wish because they're dead.

What about all the men who have died? Surely some of them were gay. What about THEIR sexual orientation rights?

What about all the children who have died? What about THEIR right to an education? To life?

All this talk about racial discrimination ... surely the fact that Obama only bombs Arabs indicates some sort of racial bigotry right?

HOW are dems/libs/progressives/peaceful loving individuals ACTUALLY defending this administration?!

Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Grambler

 

Well if any war was actually justifiable by Bush it would be Afghanistan because that is were Al Queda originated. Therefor my point is we never should have ever been in Iraq.

We also have no right to be in Afghanistan. Also, I see you didn't post on the fact that Obama fought tooth and nail to stay in Iraq.

An article about African Americans maybe staying home since Obama supports marriage equality, something you said he didn't: www.huffingtonpost.com...

Its just lipservice to try and by him votes. Why was he against it his whole first term? Here is an article describing his flip flop and how it was to try and garner votes.

But two years later, as he gazed at higher office, Obama began backing off that stance, the Washington Post notes in a good story today. By 2004, the then-U.S. Senate candidate abandoned using the word “marriage” but said he favored “civil unions.”

By the time he began running for president in 2008, Obama was against it.

Now he’s for it.

That’s not evolution. That’s a flip-flop-flip-flop. It's a reverse of a reversal.

The Washington Post goes on to say that the “benefits from the timing of Obama’s reversal were clear — he needed to alter a story line that was painting him as indecisive and calculating. And the announcement has spurred gay donors to give even more to Obama’s reelection campaign.”

So it brings in money, appeases the liberal base and gets him favorable media coverage. That sounds pretty calculating.

Read more here: miamiherald.typepad.com...=cpy

miamiherald.typepad.com...

Equality for immigrants: Issued directive in June that immigrants brought illegally to the United States as children be exempted from deportation and granted work permits if they apply. Took the temporary step after failing to deliver on promised immigration overhaul, with the defeat of legislation that would have created a path to citizenship for young illegal immigrants enrolled in college or enlisted in the armed forces. Says he is still committed to it. Government has deported a record number of illegal immigrants under Obama

Read more here: www.sacbee.com...=cpy

From his website about further equality: www.barackobama.com...

You answer yourself here. He is supposedly mister immigrant, but has deported more than any other president. Even after his policy change if you were an illegal under Bush you had a better chance of staying here than under Obama. Both made it a focus to kick illegals out. So if your for the equality of these people, how is Obama good?

And sure his website says hes good for equality. What did you expect, him to come right out and say I think the elite people with money are better than everyone else, cause thats what his policies show he thinks. I don't care about words, theyre cheap. What do his actions say?

Also the equality matters to deal with rape and BC, two other items Romney and Obama differ on quite greatly. Just as Obama and Bush differed much over these same issues.

edit on 26-10-2012 by NoJoker13 because: (no reason given)

Funny you should mention womens rights. Heres an article by a feminist showing just how bad hes been for that.

When American feminists tell me about the importance of protecting reproductive rights, do they believe that Black, Latino, undocumented, Iraqi, Afghan, Pakistani women have reproductive rights, too? Or is that one of those areas where we just can’t expect the Dems to protect “my fondest dreams”? Do we have obligations to hold the Dems accountable for active harms to women around the world?

To the ridiculous argument offered in that HuffPo Live “Debate” that we must support Obama, even thought he “is doing things that are disillusioning to us,” I agree: It IS disillusioning to have the POTUS take the lead on the extra-legal murders of people he and his staff think are terrorists—without EVER offering evidence. It IS a bit disillusioning to hear about a “disposition matrix.” It IS disillusioning to wake up every day and hear about NSA, the CIA, the FBI, and the NYPD harassing Muslim men—who are the family members of Muslim women. Interrogating them. Incarcerating them indefinitely and without charges. Running kangaroo courts. Yes. A bit disillusioning. A bit.

translationexercises.wordpress.com...

reply to post by Grambler


Well considering the sources you sited... or didn't. I don't think a response is justifiable since you've already to succumbed to biased news outlets.

It wouldn't have mattered who took office in 2008. We would have been where we are now, more or less.

The bottom line is the US economy was in shambles and there was nothing McCain, Obama, Hilary, Huckabee or Jesus Christ could have done substantive within the very, very short 4 years following that election.

I think it is time we started to be honest with ourselves and stop preaching what lies Obama told us or what promises Romney intends to fulfill.

We are being intellectually dishonest if we do not see it was going to take more than 4 years to fix the debacle we are/were in. I knew this, others knew this. Unfortunately, when politicians want to get elected they promise the sky and depending on who the audience is, can be detrimental to their well being in the long run.

Prepare for at least 3 more years of recovery, irrespective if Obama is re-elected or Romney takes the White House.

reply to post by NoJoker13


Wow. You take the cake. Misquotes, name calling, ignoring facts, and now at the very end accuse my sources of being biased. I at least have cited a source for every claim I've made. Its quite clear you have no justifiable defense of Obama.

reply to post by Grambler


Sure I don't, I just don't feel the need to defend him while clearly the person I'm talking to has already made up their mind. Enjoy fox news or whatever it is you like.

reply to post by NoJoker13


I'm sorry you feel that way. I honestly would like to have a discussion with Obama supporters about his policies, and why they support him despite his seemingly change in stances.

I will listen to any arguments you have with as much of an open mind as possible. and read any cites you give me, and despite our difference of opinions, I definitely respect you for being here to defend your opinions. Its better than many people that just ignore arguments they disagree with.

reply to post by Grambler


Well you certainly pulled a fast one with your last post, much respect. I absolutely agree that many don't even feel the need to defend the man or try too. I on the other hand feel that these two candidates differ immensely with one topic, equality. That is why my vote is for Obama, his track record would say he's Agnostic even though he's a supposed Catholic and that's the type of mind we need now a days. A progressive religious thinker that can put people before an outdated text. That is my biggest problem with Romney and if you'd like to disagree that's fine but a simple internet source would show Obama's support for such things. I'm also a big supporter of Medicare.

reply to post by burning_need


dude gary johnson has a chance to change AMERICAN HISTORY FOREVER. vote for him, RON PAUL SAID HE IS THE ONLY CHOICE THAT MAKES SENSE