Ryan: "I just don't understand" bayonet remark

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Was his statement correct?

I have been hearing all through this thread how there are fewer bayonets today....

It was a joke now.
It wasn't a joke, it was the President 'being rhetorical', IOW, trying to make an arse out of his opponent during the debate.

Yet most of america got the jist of what he was saying. That technology trumps numbers.
if you find yourself splitting hairs about this, then you failed to understand the point.
Does the fleet need tons of new ships? Why? Are we forever the world police?
If we are, its high time nations around the world start paying us for our services verses demanding the us tax payers flip the bill to patrol all oceans and seas forever..

We have enough to destroy our enemies over and over before boots even hit the ground..why do we need more unless it is to get into crazy amounts of conflicts?

The military is without exception the largest on earth...pretty much double the size of the rest of the world combined..if we aren't strong enough, then we suck and should just give up already. Are we planning on fighting every nation on earth at the same time? and again, if that is the case, then again we suck as a nation and culture and should lose if such a event were to happen...but alas, there is (currently) more good will towards the us than desire for war...

So, horses and bayonets are a symbol of ancient tech replaced by a better, leaner, technologically superior military. Again, there may be more horses also today than back then, but the point remains..tech trumps numbers.

And if your hair splitting..then your losing. the right needs to address the point, not the example..the average muddlebrained person doesn't want to get lost in pop trivia when the point is valid..

reply to post by Vitruvian


Ummm Butcherguy was arguing YOUR point

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

WE DON'T USE BAYONET'S IN THE 21ST CENTURY!

Your main statement here is incorrect.
The troops are issued bayonets.
They train with them.
They still use them.

I won't go where you did with references to people that have different abilities than others, it really isn't very nice to use the 'R' word, you know?

Alright sport you win...someone maybe watching us from a distance argue...

reply to post by SaturnFX


I beg to differ with your views on horses and such animals in the military. Here in NC, I have actually met a gentleman and he has been featured on the news... he raises, trains, and instructs people on the use of pack animals... horses, mules, donkeys.

He is on a two week on and one week off rotation contract down at Fort Bragg, NC. He trains soldiers there how to use, lead, and maintain mules and donkeys over seas in rugged areas like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq...

They are highly useful, versatile, and actually make a good point/warning animal as they have a keen sense of awareness to danger that even veteran troops have come to appreciate. Plus, in areas like Afghanistan... a person that can lead a mule well automaticaly gains a lot of respect in the local villages... helps to make inroads into the community and intelligence.

Although not as large ast the corps of horses of say WWI, these animals have a very useful and valued place in the field and combat zones of western Asia.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

Who know's if the Chinese use bayonets...we don't.

And that photo of U.S. troops doesn't look like a deployed unit too me. They appear to still be in training.

WE DON'T USE BAYONET'S!!!

As someone else said, when was the last time the order "Fix Bayonet's" was given?

I never heard it...

Looking at the photo again...actually the Chinese bayonets do appear to be decoration. They appear to be at some ceremony. Those are not their battle weapons...

edit on 24-10-2012 by DZAG Wright because: To add on

LINK TO PHOTO - VA: Virginians joust with Obama over bayonets, horses, ships

1996 DEPLOYMENT OFFICIAL PHOTO

BTW - I am a disabled veteran and we used bayonets!!! We trained with them and we carried them at all times - either fixed on in the scabbard!!!

edit on 24-10-2012 by Vitruvian because: (no reason given)

My man...those are soldiers/marines aboard a ship training...probably as a punishment for something...so their CO made them do bayonet training as a light punishment.

Show me a photo of a soldier/marine with boots on the ground while downtown and they have a freaking bayonet on their rifle!

Disabled vet or not, this isn't 1972...WE DO NOT USE BAYONET'S!! You must have served during WWI?

Everything you said is now invalid. Have a nice day.

By the way... what is wrong with you calling someone "Retarded"? Aside from being a blatant TOS violation, it clearly demonstrates your character as a person. Pathetic.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by butcherguy

And that photo of U.S. troops doesn't look like a deployed unit too me. They appear to still be in training.

reply to post by DZAG Wright

 

Use the slider under the pic. The Marines in the photo are training on the flight deck of a ship. Ships are used to deploy Marines. Whether or not they are going on a deployment or not, I can not say for certain, but your phrase 'Still in training' causes me to wonder what familiarity you have with the military. Training is a never ending thing in the military.

We would occassionally train for stuff we and our commanders KNEW we would never see again. The training was always a joke, punishment or moral builder.

If you have any "familiarity" with the military, I wouldn't need to say BASIC TRAINING because you would have known what was meant...

When I went through Basic they still taught us to duck and cover for nuclear explosions. I always laughed a little over that.

Duck and cover? Drill Sgt don’t you mean bend over and kiss your arse goodbye.

Look, we just ONE nuclear sub can completley decimate an entire country with it's nuclear weapons. The best part? No one exactly knows just where our nuclear subs are.

That truth alone should end this discussion.

Period.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Look, we just ONE nuclear sub can completley decimate an entire country with it's nuclear weapons. The best part? No one exactly knows just where our nuclear subs are.

That truth alone should end this discussion.

Period.

Yet foreign countries continue to attack us and our interests.

Argument invalid.

Its not specifically the President's remark of bayonets and horses remark, but the presumption on Obama to school Mitt on the US military as if he were a fifth grader. This insult to Mitt Romney's intelligence is really petty for Obama to do. This is not only an insult to Mitt's intelligence, but an insult to the intelligence of any American viewer watching the debate.

Obama: “You mention the Navy, for example, and that we have fewer ships than we did in 1916. Well governor, we also have fewer horses and bayonets. We have these things called aircraft carriers and planes land on them. We have these ships that go underwater, nuclear submarines.”

Details and Implication

reply to post by TC Mike


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reconnaissance aircraft are quickly replacing the need for certain ships.

Hence the comment about aircraft.

You make a stupid statement, you get a stupid reply.

Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by TC Mike

 

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reconnaissance aircraft are quickly replacing the need for certain ships.

Hence the comment about aircraft.

You make a stupid statement, you get a stupid reply.

edit on 24-10-2012 by illuminated0ne because: (no reason given)

It can be difficult for a recon aircraft to stop a Somali pirate....

Just sayin'.

reply to post by SaturnFX

And if your hair splitting..then your losing. the right needs to address the point, not the example..the average muddlebrained person doesn't want to get lost in pop trivia when the point is valid..

here are some hairs for you to split.

Look down the page. You will see pics of modern US servicemen in a combat theater with bayonets fixed.

How many bayonet charges do you think were mounted during the year 1916?
1916 bayonets were not the multiuse tool that bayonets are today.
How many bayonets actually served in their designed capacity in the year 1916?

You may call it splitting hairs, but they are facts. Damnable facts for some.

reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies


Really? Predator drones can't stop pirates? Attack helicopters from aircraft carriers can't stop pirates? I think a few warning shots into the water will suffice. Aircraft are replacing the need for certain ships, period.

Even then, the recon aircraft do the patrolling, and they alert the ships, and the ships respond. Instead of having 100s of ships doing recon in places they don't need to be, the aircraft do it, and alert the ships to be where they need to be. It's more efficient that way.

reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies


That’s why we have radio communications and helicopters with guns.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by butcherguy
Obama's problem may be that he is out of touch with the military.... if it isn't a 'drone' that is being talked about.

He is familiar with those. They filmed the Benghazi terrorist attack with one, and he uses them to execute the people on his 'kill list'.

Out of touch with the military? Funny how you bring up drones you do know that is just a continuation of the program started under Bush.

so then you are admitting obama is merely a continuation, of gwb? gwb's third term?

Originally posted by illuminated0ne
reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

 

Really? Predator drones can't stop pirates? Attack helicopters from aircraft carriers can't stop pirates? I think a few warning shots into the water will suffice. Aircraft are replacing the need for certain ships, period.

Even then, the recon aircraft do the patrolling, and they alert the ships, and the ships respond. Instead of having 100s of ships doing recon in places they don't need to be, the aircraft do it, and alert the ships to be where they need to be. It's more efficient that way.

edit on 24-10-2012 by illuminated0ne because: (no reason given)

I was responding to recon aircraft not predator drones...

I was comparing apples to apples, not firetrucks to watermellons like in your reply.

But to address your reply, predator drones have difficulty apprehending and detaining Somali pirates...

And you admitted yourself that ships are to be used, further forwarding my point.

Originally posted by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

Originally posted by DZAG Wright

Originally posted by Vitruvian

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by Vitruvian

 

Who know's if the Chinese use bayonets...we don't.

And that photo of U.S. troops doesn't look like a deployed unit too me. They appear to still be in training.

WE DON'T USE BAYONET'S!!!

As someone else said, when was the last time the order "Fix Bayonet's" was given?

I never heard it...

Looking at the photo again...actually the Chinese bayonets do appear to be decoration. They appear to be at some ceremony. Those are not their battle weapons...

edit on 24-10-2012 by DZAG Wright because: To add on

LINK TO PHOTO - VA: Virginians joust with Obama over bayonets, horses, ships

1996 DEPLOYMENT OFFICIAL PHOTO

BTW - I am a disabled veteran and we used bayonets!!! We trained with them and we carried them at all times - either fixed on in the scabbard!!!

edit on 24-10-2012 by Vitruvian because: (no reason given)

My man...those are soldiers/marines aboard a ship training...probably as a punishment for something...so their CO made them do bayonet training as a light punishment.

Show me a photo of a soldier/marine with boots on the ground while downtown and they have a freaking bayonet on their rifle!

Disabled vet or not, this isn't 1972...WE DO NOT USE BAYONET'S!! You must have served during WWI?

Everything you said is now invalid. Have a nice day.

By the way... what is wrong with you calling someone "Retarded"? Aside from being a blatant TOS violation, it clearly demonstrates your character as a person. Pathetic.

edit on 24-10-2012 by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies because: Setting something straight

I actually take a little bit of humble pie...

Though, what are those guys doing with M-16's and they're downtown? I would need to know the context of that photo. Is it even real or a movie trailer?

I know what I know from experience and just went and asked some Army and Marines (since I work in a Vet Center) and make sure I'm not crazy.

We don't use bayonet's anymore...

Originally posted by Vitruvian
reply to post by buster2010

 

I say unequivocally that M Romney and P Ryan have a superb comprehension of the status of our military readiness throughout the world as proven in their respective performances in the debates.

NOW - I stated to you in another thread -

Quote Vitruvian - "BTW - we veterans know that BAYONETS ARE STILL IN USE AS AN OFFENSIVE AND DEFENSIVE WEAPON - ask any Marine...MARINES ARE A BRANCH OF THE US NAVY........... "

You responded

Quote buster2010 "Ask the Marines how many times they have actually used them in combat. And the Marines are now considered their own branch of the service."

I now say to you - in essence - you are not stating the facts completely and/or correctly - see Wiki article here

The United States Marine Corps (USMC) is a branch of the United States Armed Forces responsible for providing power projection from the sea, using the mobility of the United States Navy to deliver combined-arms task forces rapidly. It is one of seven uniformed services of the United States. In the civilian leadership structure of the United States military, the Marine Corps is a component of the United States Department of the Navy,[7][8] often working closely with U.S. naval forces for training, transportation, and logistic purposes; however, in the military leadership structure the Marine Corps is a separate branch.

edit on 23-10-2012 by Vitruvian because: txt

Hey thanks.

I didn't think the OP had two clues about these types of things, so thanks for clearing all these misconceptions and half truths up.

Just saying

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies

 

That’s why we have radio communications and helicopters with guns.

Q: Where do helecopters with guns in the middle of the ocean launch from?

A: Ships.

reply to post by EvenParanoidsHaveEnemies


You obviously didn't read the link I posted in my last post.

Drones are used for reconnaissance, and most of them are armed.

Aircraft used for recon reduces the need for recon ships. It's a fact.

Sorry to disappoint you.