You will worship a Male God.

Okay.

I'll just lay it out for you. When I studied the writings and natures of the original followers of Christ, I took them rather seriously. His followers back then were not like you are.

A follower of Christ is a warrior spirit, because of the nature of those in this world, and the powers that rule it. That human nature of consciousness in this world is very aggressive, it attempts to rule by absolute force. You two don't seem to resemble real Christ lights. You resemble slaves to these world power, who demands submission, fear, and humility.

I think you believe truly that you are following Christ by saying these things to me, for truly you think you do good by challenging me. There is a book that describes what you are doing to me exactly, and you guy don't miss a beat. What do you think to accomplish with me?

I know you will never comment on these powers of the world, because you are blinded to them in slavery. You do not really serve the Christ, or you would show some of His Zeal. Christ puts some of HIS nature in those whom He loves. It shows through in various ways. In me, it came through by my boldness in reason, independence, and steadfastness in my faith. I have attained to a certain degree of knowledge, and I don't back down from it.

You seem to think that who speaks with certainty and firmness is somehow flawed in their thinking. You don't seem to understand that the MIND that can form these kind of patterns in it is the ONLY kind of mind worthy to bear any kind of knowledge, or task for that matter.

The nature of this universe demands firmness of mind, more so than body. Christ taught this lesson quite well, remember, Christian? A house founded on a rock stands against the rains, and the house founded on the sand does not. How firm is your house? I am building mine of rock, tearing down what does not work, but I am making out of rock. I will live in it, and if it turns out nice, others will share it with me. That is my joy.

I have learned that we suffer because we bow to that we should not, fear when we should not, and submit ourselves because we lack our own authority. I learned that Christ's true lesson was not that of submission and fear, or constant humility and silence, but one of true zeal and life. Remember the lesson of the little children? What is a young boy like? He speaks plainly, without fear. He speaks the truth, because that is his nature! He does not ever consider that a lie is better than the truth, and this is our original nature. Christ delighted in them who retained this original nature, not those who appear after the fact, pretending to serve him, and begging for this and that. he threw those kind out, and taught his apostles to recognize them.

This world is full of all kinds of deception. I am not a deceiver. I desire nothing greater than to find equals, and brothers, and to make love in the liberty of intellectual fraternity.

Why don't your posts sound like mine? Where is your spirit, your zest? Where is your salt, you "Christians?" If you were worthy of listening to, or following, you would have Christ in you right now, or enough of Him that our spirits would combine and we would being a merging process that is sacred and holy. Our thoughts and words would reflect each others. We do not. That is how I know my own kind, and how I know imposters. That is why I wish you to leave me alone, because you are not of me, nor do I have anything to do with you.

If you want to follow Christ in your own way, then go to it. You guys are just annoying me and pestering my posts, not really adding any enlightenment, but just being a general drag.

Do I face punishment for my independence? Should I be corrected for my confidence? Should my will to attain equity with Christ and learn everything He teaches be admonished? Christ does not think so, and that is all that is important.

The opinions of men are all that you offer me, Each of secretly desire to win some kind of goody from your behavior. You think that you will gain power and dominion by humility. You think that Christ's victory comes to those who wait with open arms and who never make any trouble, to those who obey the rules, and who never get into any controversy.

Let me tell you something about this. Liberty and Christ are kind of the same thing. She has a female aspect. In this aspect she is like a lover, or a bride. She is not pleased by every man, but like a queen, she is impressed with men of valor, strength, and character. She does not bend to inferior models. To gain Christ is one thing, and this is perhaps begun by a process of HUMILITY AND REPENTANCE, but that is merely the beginning. But to gain the crown, you must become worthy to wear one.


Use your common sense in this. The crown is gained by love, or by merit. It is not gained any other way. This crown is actually a living intelligence. It is a gathering of light power, that physically (in this world) stays with you. You can lose it, gain it, diminish in it, grow strong in it. It is ALIVE. That is the meaning of Christ's words, If you keep my commandments, I and My Father shall come to dwell in you."

If you were truly following the glorious path, you would be speaking the glorious word, because that's what would fill you. You would sound like me. I know my place. I know my name. I know what I am. I know where I lack, and where I am strong, most of the time. I don't want to rule you, I don't want your service, your worship, or your veneration. I desire my true brothers to rejoice in what God has made for us. I desire my nation to delight in all the glorious gifts intelligence and Goodness and Light have bestowed on this universe, and so that we might love each other in it.

Don't you see, I'm not someone you should be fighting with in any manner!

Arky


[Edited on 25-10-2004 by Arkaleus]

Hi, I'm a new member on here. As far as this discussion goes, I agree to an extent with many of the views presented. As far as the gender of God is concerned - I believe God tends to exhibit mostly masculine traits. God is often referred to as 'Our Father' rather than an asexual 'Creator.' Whether this is an expression I don't know - who can honestly say they know for sure whether God is masculine, feminine or a combination of the two? In my opinion God could be either, both or neither, it matters little - what matters is how we conform our thoughts and actions to the will of God and not how many pointless arguments we can come up with regarding his nature. After all - we can never know it all.

I hope my post is coherent. I'd just like to add a big thank you to both Raphael_UO and Arkaleus. During the summer months I fell into a great depression and several of your posts were both a great help and a great source of inspiration. You both truly helped me during the time I was confused and worried about the life ahead of me, I can't thank you enough...

Ok, first off:

Originally posted by Arkaleus
I desire nothing greater than to find equals, and brothers, and to make love in the liberty of intellectual fraternity.
[Edited on 25-10-2004 by Arkaleus]

Originally posted by Arkaleus
You have made your nation venerate its females, and have thus harmed the male children, your punishment will come to you in a terrible climax.

How horrible. We've made our nation respect women as our equals, and not as our property! What kind of trechery is this nation commiting where women aren't coerced and beat down! Surely such a nation will suffer the eternal fire and wrath of the lord! (Note the sarcasm!).

See, Arkaleus, you're failing to see the difference between respecting as equals, and bowing down to. We are not slaves to anything; in fact, we've turned AWAY from the slavery that women were originally brought into. We've brought them up to equality. Now I agree that it's going to far. I've even made a post about it if you'd care to read it. I believe we should be equal, which does not mean that I bow to them, nor that they bow to me.

Another one of your points seems to be being stead-fast in your beliefs. Because I believe in equality, does that mean that my foundation is not solid?

You also seem to correlate your faith with the way you type. You have a very poetic way to your posts which I've always noticed, yet I fail to see how that means you are enlightened. Being poetic in your writing and being religiously enlightened aren't related in my mind... Hitler was a great public speaker! Does that mean that God was working through him? Although, if you want to say the two are related, Raphael_UO's posts are very well worded. Maybe he's the one who's got the right idea!

Finally, you don't want us to question you. Why did you post your opinion in a discussion forum? You know the nature of this board!

Yes, it is the nature of this board to cause controversy. I am not asking you to stop questioning me, or challenging me. I rather enjoy that part, because that strengthens us both. I just don't like the constant, one-point rebuttals that Raph keeps giving me in each of my posts. I know it stems from his dislike of my gnostic philosophies.

There is more to the topic of male and female than just the legal status of the gender. There is a whole concept of how our minds function and grow in a society, and how these forces are controlled and applied in a wise society.

Women were never treated as slaves or chattle because of the desire to make them serve men in a harsh manner. The reasons for this separation was so that the male mind could grow and mature without female interference, and so the males might fully develop their mental faculties before entering the often mentally destructive sexual roles.

It was understood in ancient times how female minds worked, it's not like it is something mysterious. They have a very powerful effect on the minds of other beings, and when left to their own ends, can become extremely dominating and cruel to those under their care. This is a kind of phychic cruelty that damages the minds of young males. That is why a mother's care is so important to understand: If a mother wishes to harm her children mentally, and dominate them with psychic forces, then they turn out poorly. If she is a little more enlightened, then they grow healthy and better natured. Raising children is as much a psychic as it is a physcial undertaking. You build MIND as well as BODY. That relationship should not be secret. It should be common, everyday parlance.

This separation was put in place in ancient cultures to provide a way to keep this power in check. Without these safeguards, boys would find themselves dominated by their mothers, and males in general would have a hard time ever emerging as whole beings, because their minds would be deformed and overtaken by the female psychic influence.

In our culture, we have "forgotton" these matters, even denied them altogether, but no adult person is able to really deny these things. They deal with them every day, and in fact their whole social lives are based around these things. It is rather schizophrenic and odd to deny them in our outward speech, yet base our entire lives on them.

Because the female power has been totally freed in America, the males have begun to show the signs of a great spiritual and psychic deformity. They never fully develop, and are ensnared immediately into the relationship cycle, which in turn produces other children who are then dragged into this cycle.

Males need room and time to grow, and isloation from the destructive female forces. There is a reason why india often personified the female force as Shiva, a destrucive entity. This was a lesson that their culture understood. Their people tend to be a little more balanced in how they raise up their minds, and allow them to develop.

In America, these forces are known, but totally denied and not addressed, and our population is suffering a great deal because of it. Our male population has become violent, ignorant, and indulgent. The male virutes have disappeared from our educational systems. Strong male role modemls have been pushed out by largely female forces, quite on purpose. This was done to move the whole generation off it's base, and into the manipulation of those who would have everyone kept under female control.

This has resulted in a great crisis, where males everywhere now exist at a very primitive intellectual level, totally incapacitated, unable to consider their own authority, citizenship, or even spirituall matters. Materialism is female in its origin, and its rapid displacement of our former awareness is nearly total.

Female values, such as submission, reproduction, and sensuality have grown dominant in America over the male powers, and this has caused our nation to become very unstable. We now have an entire leadership who is unable to intellectualize anything except money and the processess thereof, and who consider any means justify their ends. Morality is merely appearance, as is truth. The male virtues of our classical ancestors have been totally discarded in America.

That is the level at which I think of female matters. Individual girls and women do not matter to me. it is a much greater issue I am talking about. Do you understand?

Arkaleus

Great post, I have to say I agree fully. Political correctness has become somewhat destructive in nature, it's effects are sinister. It causes people to fear speaking out on serious matters for fear of becoming the object of persecution by the mob, if not prosecution by the state.

To attempt to point out the odious nature of Political Correctness is to restate the crucial importance of speaking plainly, the freedom of choice and freedom of speech; these are the communities safe-guards against the imposition of tyranny, indeed their absence is tyranny.

I think females want more than equality, they want special treatment and men have given into their demands without ever challenging them. Men fear being labelled sexist or old fashioned in their way of thinking. Feminists on the whole are butch, men hating lesbians who go about preaching equality and concealing their true aim which is to oppress the male section of the population. Most of them are nothing more than fanatics and through decades of campaigning for 'womens rights' they have effectively confused both male and female 'roles' in society.

It's a sad state of affairs, but it only seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Remember the lesson of the little children? What is a young boy like? He speaks plainly, without fear. He speaks the truth, because that is his nature! He does not ever consider that a lie is better than the truth, and this is our original nature. Christ delighted in them who retained this original nature, not those who appear after the fact, pretending to serve him, and begging for this and that. he threw those kind out, and taught his apostles to recognize them.

I am suprised Arkaleus brought up the nature of children. It does not support his position. Young children, both males and females, have the same nature. All can return to this original nature. Because all can return, all are inherently equal.

For those who do not remember the lessons of little children, I suggest reading the 4 pages of this thread.

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Use your common sense in this. The crown is gained by love, or by merit.

I agree one should use common sense.

That "which is" is real. That "which is not" is illusion. Illusion can have the appearance of reality, but it is not. One must be able to tell the difference or one is guaranteed to confuse the two.

One should seek to understand the nature of love. One should seek to understand the nature of what is not love. One should seek to understand the difference between the two.

I disagree that the crown is gained by love or merit. I believe it is love and merit. Just as chasing a mirage through the desert is folly, deeds without love have no merit. Deeds that have merit are a natural extension of one's love. They are connected and cannot be seperated.

Raph:

I am suprised Arkaleus brought up the nature of children. It does not support his position. Young children, both males and females, have the same nature. All can return to this original nature. Because all can return, all are inherently equal.

(Emphasis mine)

No Raph, dissimilar things are not equal. The similarity you see in little children is the Image of God, which is One, appearing in them. His spirit of protection sometimes makes them appear as androgenies, but they often do not remain like this. Males and females are completely different beings. Their minds emanate in different ways, their thoughts form different patterns. Only in the Union of Godly perfection do they approach a common form, and this is one of the greater mysteries of mankind. Not all beings combine in this way with women. In fact, Jesus testified that the way of the eunich who made himself a eunuch for the kingdom was the most choice of the paths for a man.

Many moderns desire Jesus to be wed, to have had some kind of carnal relations with Mary Magdelene. That is because they want Jesus to resemble them. They want a justification of their Carnal lifestyle, and wish to pretend that Jesus was just like them. It is a cruel blasphemy they speak.

When that androgenous spirit is present in Little Children, we say that the presense of God is upon them. That is one of the reasons why I, and many other ancient observers, say that the original religion of humankind is already established within us, FROM BIRTH. God is not these little children, nor does their nature resemble His, but they receive His love, and light.

There is more than just "Love." Just like there are more parts to your being than just your skin, there is more to the complete creation of God than just Love. Love is the highest of the children of God, yet there are many other aspects to a Man.

Part of the work of perfection is to remove the things that are contrary to the expression of Love as the government of mankind. There are other virtues that must be gained in order to be a full being. Love and submission to love by itself is a form of tyranny, because it keeps one forever a supplicant, and never a freeborn man ready to inherit.

I guess I should ask you this Raph: What is your expectation of paradise? What is heaven like? What do you propose that your awareness will be doing in that state? Tell us that, please.

Arkaleus


[Edited on 29-10-2004 by Arkaleus]

Originally posted by Arkaleus
No Raph, dissimilar things are not equal. The similarity you see in little children is the Image of God, which is One, appearing in them. His spirit of protection sometimes makes them appear as androgenies, but they often do not remain like this. Males and females are cmopeltely different beings.

Physically, all humans are unique. Each has features that another does not have. It is the simularities which give them equality-- their origin, their soul, the potential they each have within them. Each person is like a mirror reflecting the light of God. Each is given a perfect mirror on birth. The sins of this world are as dirt on this mirror. If the mirror is polished and cleaned and the impurities are removed once more one will be as they were.

There is more than just "Love." Just like there are more parts to your being than just your skin, there is more to the complete creation of God than just Love. Love is the highest of the children of God, yet there are many other aspects to a Man.

Part of the work of perfection is to remove the things that are contrary to the expression of Love as the government of mankind. There are other virtues that must be gained in order to be a full being. Love and submission to love by itself is a form of tyranny, because it keeps one forever a supplicant, and never a freeborn man ready to inherit.

Love is the foundation on which all else is placed. If one does not understand this foundation, one will build a structure of beliefs which is not on a firm foundation. When a storm comes, If that which is not firm falls, it can pull down the structure that is on a firm foundation.

I guess I should ask you this Raph: What is your expectation of paradise? What is heaven like? What do you propose that your awareness will be doing in that state? Tell us that, please.

If there were no promises of Heaven, I would still believe as I do. Thus I have no expectations. Why is the nature of heaven important to you?


[Edited on 28-10-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Raph:

One of the foundations of my understanding of our state in the afterlife is that we "are as we are." This means we maintain the same traits and attributes we develop in this life. Good for good, and evil for evil. This would be consistent with the words of the Bible, especially the book of revelations.

I am puzzled by a person who is living in a manner that he would not like to continue forever. A person who becomes saintly in this life acquires the key to immortality - His mind becomes prepared for an eternal existence. Think rationally: How can a being suddenly acquire the traits and attributes of an immortal being suitable for the existence with all the other immortal beings that ever lived? There is no grace that can make this be - It is impossible to change the nature of things in this fashion.

How then, are you so faithful? What is the foundation of your faith? What is the reason by which you have taken hold of your salvation? God is a God of Reason. If you lack this, then you lack everything. If the mysteries of heaven have not opened to you, then you are still someone seeking salvation.

It is not reasonable to assume that you will be "saved" after you die. You are "saved" in THIS life. Otherwise there would be no need or purpose to strive in this life. The process of salvation is described in the Gnostic gospels like this: You replace a hand with a hand, and eye with an eye, until the whole body be light. The meaning of this riddle is that you must purify the various parts of your body, until the whole of the body be purged of the dark material of sin, and of the "projections" of the energy of dark people.

Christ and his brothers set about to help those of us who fully apply ourselves to this process - they purify, purge, and drive out the evil powers of our enemies. that is How Jesus saves. He works in the spirit, and the psychology of men. He helps us do this ourselves, we are not helpless. It is our duty, even our COMMANDMENT that we pursue this perfection. We cannot hope to attain an immortal existence (As beings of light) without pursuing this knowledge.

It is not easy to do. Once you start on this path, other beings attempt to prevent you. Anyone who attempts to develop this light and power in this world is immediately pursued by the governors and the envious ones.

If you don't know who these folks are, then you have a lot to learn still.

What do you think heaven will be like, Raph? What do you WANT it to be? Tell me if you can. It's something we can conceive, because human minds receive it. It's something right in front of us, it lives, it grows. It is not far away, it is not pretend. It IS.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Arkaleus
How can a being suddenly acquire the traits and attributes of an immortal being suitable for the existence with all the other immortal beings that ever lived? There is no grace that can make this be - It is impossible to change the nature of things in this fashion.
Arkaleus

Sorry, just had to bump in here for a sec . God is not bound by the restrictions that he gave us. Things that may seem impossible to us, or not reasonably are perfectly feasable for someone like our Lord to accomplish. That's how I see it. My mom is a nurse. She's been having trouble understanding the whole God concept lately. She asked me "How can God see and hear and be everywhere...if he doesn't have nerves and eyeballs and stuff?" Basically, she was asking how is it possible that God can do all these things, and not have...any of the things that we humans need to see and hear and feel. I tried to help her by saying that it's like...something that runs on batteries saying "How can these people be real? They don't have batteries! How can they move if they don't have any batterie to power them?"

Do you get what I'm saying, or did I completely mis-interpret that paragraph?

There is a place for them who trust Christ as a little child. There is a place for them who did not learn the difficult books, and take the difficult paths. There is a place for the men who did not learn the mysteries. As long as these men did not choose evil in their hearts, as long as the did not agree with the work of the devils and the demons, and oppress the good ones and make war with the light, they are to inherit life.

That is the standard that I would set as a merciful being. I could not imagine a universe ruled by a being who could not provide a plan of salvation for the men who partake of that level of life. It is proper that they live, it is proper that they be healed, it is good that they be relieved of evil, and washed, and clothed.

I have no praise for a God of wrath and retribution. I have no enmity for the man who does not perform a ritual, or say a phrase, or partake of any of the conventions of men. I am moved to compassion because I begin to see what is truly in you.

I see a person who does not comprehend the whole, I see a person who has chosen Christ, and has made it his dignity to put his faith in his redemption. That quality is worthy of praise, and I should not ever make fun of such a one.

I know that I have done this, because my heart is stung by my Lord to say this. Lest I ever make light of the salvation of men, I take my tongue by my teeth, and thrust it into my cheek. Herman, we should never argue about these matters.

I truly have become proud in this, and you have demonstrated this to me. Not by your words, but by your honest writing. I peeked into your soul, as I intended to do with my "other outrageous post", and I learned a crucial thing. There is nothing in you that I should be disgreeable to. You have not condemned me at all, you have spoken with me as a man, and I am happy for that.

I know that you have learned all these things on your own. I am able to perceive the things of your heart. I know that the books you have read, and the websites you have read have led you into a certain type of Christian thought. I want you to know that this kind of thought is a good place to start, but God does not dwell there. Jesus does not abide among these kinds of men, and He does not favor their kinds of teaching. What he does love is your heart, and your true INTENTION, which He has shown to me.

God mystery is true, and by His spirit I see these things. You teach me my lessons, because God has brought them to me from you. For this I thank you. You probably won't perceive this, but God has chosen you because of your heart, and not for anything you have learned from these other people.

In fact, words have little use compared to the intention and thought of the heart. A simple man is forgiven many things, if his heart harbors no evil. Even all things.

You see Herman, that is the key to our union with Christ, which is the key what you were seeking, which is simple salvation from hell. I know that is all you have thought, because of the fear of this damnation you have made your thought, "I do not wish to go there." Proper thought, and it is where you began. Joy to you, because there is more for you to learn.

You will learn that salvation is more than just the escape from hell, it is a union with Christ, and with the other holy beings. That is what you should focus on. Do not read those silly people anymore, unless they teach you in this fashion: We achieve a union with our spirits in love and understanding. Do away with them that preach punishment, for punishment awaits them.

You were given a gift from God tonight, I saw it go you. He has found compassion for you, and has caused me to tell you this. Make the best of it and cast off your sins that you keep hidden. They will make it hard for His spirit to grow in you. It is like a seed. it is a power of light that grows in us. It must be tended. Become wise in this right away, death is ever ready to swallow us up.

Arky

Arkaleus,

That is the standard that I would set as a merciful being. I could not imagine a universe ruled by a being who could not provide a plan of salvation for the men who partake of that level of life.

What vanity. What foolishness is this? You, a mere human being, believe yourself capable of making better decisions than an infinite God? A God, that exists outside of our time and space dimensions. A God, who clearly has existed before the creation of time, matter and space itself. A God, who by the mere choice of his will, brought into being every piece of matter, space and time that you live in.

A God who exists in multiple dimensions of time and can see the beginning from the end, while carefully examining the middle! A God, whose intellect is so many times exponentially greater than your own that you are nothing by comparison.

I always laugh when mere men think to know better than an infinite God. Satan also thought he could do it better than God and it cost him everything. Pride is the greatest evil.

Machine:

It seems to be impossible to discuss theology with you.

Your mind seems incapable of grasping the human awareness of the divine. Let me translate my words for you into Southern American. I might have a slight Baptist Accent, but I think you will get it.

"Y'all see now, God done made Hisself a good plan here. He done made the low man sit with the high, and made the high man sit low, cause' He's a right-proper judge."

Ok, with that out of the way, let me elaborate. Understanding God is the whole business of any serious religion. My words come because I have attained a certain degree of understanding of God's mercy. Do you deny that men can know God's Mercy?

It is my prevelidge, having learning this, to speak as a man with understanding. I have spoken from the perspective of God, for God has opened my Eyes with His wisdom, which is like putting a man up at his side. When Jesus said these kinds of things to the Jews, they sounded remarkably like YOU. "Blasphemer," They cried! "Stone Him, for He makes himself Equal to God!"

Like all bumpkins, you think that God is WAYYYYYY up there, like some kind of Colenel Sanders in the Clouds. Issuing incomprehensible edicts on high, burning up all the colore'd folks and them dirty A-rabs. You must have a really *fine* understanding of God, bumpkin, because it makes you so pleasant to hear when you speak to your fellow men. Your wisdom and understanding converts the heathen, and makes common men repent. You must draw all sorts of people to you with your enlightened gospel.

Perhaps you should back off and analyse what you write here, bumpkin. It doesn't sound like the Jeezus you worship. It doesn't even sound like the Apostles of the Nazarene. It's your own brand of Bumpkin hooch, that high-grade pig swill you call "religin." I know where it comes from, bumpkin. I know my own people well, and all their secret parts.

And man do you stink with it, *whew-we!* Ready to kill all them homosexu'ls yet, bumpkin? Maybe a few more licks of that there hooch and you'll get all rump and ready. Get yer rifle all ready, 'cause yer God's a callin'! You got a lot more 'a them A-rabs to kill, cause you know their mamma's had about 7 of 'em each. Don't take much to kill them babies, exceptin' that they scream a whole lot when they bleed. Guess that's why you gotta dash out their heads instead of hackin' em up.

Get on it Bumpkin, you gotta make an enemy out of us all, because you surely will if you think your brand of tyranny will rule over the free men.

Arkaleus

Machine's Bumpkin song!

www.oceanbluepools.com...

Let me ask this question.....oh great wise......male virgin????

umm.....well, let's say good ole Osama decided to send his wife to the US...(she's unclean this time of month anyways, so he can't have any fun!!)....well, he send her here, and hey right to your house! Well, he has commanded her to strap explosives on herself and blow her up!!

Well, the Head of Osama, according to the Bible is Christ.
And, well, the Head of the Wife, according to the Bible, would be Osama, her husband, and gee, it goes on to say that she should obey him in ALL THINGS.
So should we assume that Osama has sent his wife to the US because it was Christ's will. And, well, since his wife was commanded by her husband, that it would be Christ's will for her to obey him? and, then, it could only mean that Christ wants her to blow you up?
Who do you blame...Osama, or his wife?
Do you try to convert her to Christianity...even though the Bible clearly states that any vow she makes either to God or man is made null and void if the husband doesn't agree?
Or do you just sit back, and accept your fate as God's will?


Seems to me, that man, instead of keeping his eyes on his lord...God...intent on obeying him. Has instead, turned around, to face the women, intent on ruling her. Hate to say this, but it kind of sounds as though he's made the same mistake as lucifer of old. It's better to rule women on earth, and make a hell out of the place....than to obey God..
Look where it has gotton us....we are all so busy obeying all of our worldly lords that we have not the energy, or the time to even worry about what God does desire out of us.

I often wonder at you guys. Why must everything be ruled, controlled, forced, or under some kind of compulsion?

Are you unable to conceive of Liberty, Freedom, Equity, and goodness?

And who ever said I am preaching the Bible? I was speaking about something else, but I am not sure you caught it. I was speaking about the displacement of the Male's God, the Male power, the Male Image by the female, or the demonic.

Get it?

I am rather unhappy with how males treat this issue. They think it is a funny subject! I wonder what they consider to be sacred. I wonder if they even know what sacred is. Most of them seem to worship sex and women, and material things. Don't lie to me and say you do not. I know how you are.

I should not be hearing argument from men in this issue. I am puzzled by it. What part of a male God do you take issue with? Do you lessen yourselves and pollute your own image? I think you do.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Arkaleus
How then, are you so faithful? What is the foundation of your faith? What is the reason by which you have taken hold of your salvation?

Very short version of the story:

There was once a time I was an atheist. I said a prayer to God even though I didn't believe. It was answered immediately and without a rational explanation that did not include God. Or in even less specific terms, I received evidence of the existance of God that satisfied my burden of proof.

This gave me the first foundation of my beliefs; God is.

The second and third foundations of my beliefs are simply answers for what God wants from me; Love God. Live God.

Simply knowing the reality of the existance of God is enough for me to live my life the way I do.

God is. Love God. Live God.

You say heaven is important, but did not answer why it was important to you.

You say heaven is really important. I don't think pondering on the future is important.

I say there is nothing more important than now. All moments are now to God. Now is the moment we have. Now is the moment when what we do or do not do has meaning. Where you have been and where you are going is not as important as the step you are taking right now.

If I were to walk of 1000 miles, that journey would begin with a simple step. After ~1500 moments in time in which I took a step, I would have 999 miles to go. And that journey of 999 miles begins with a simple step. After another ~15000 nows in which I took a step, I would have 989 miles of my journey remaining. And still the journey would begin with a simple step. On and on it goes until the end of the journey is but a step away. And then the journey ends as it began, with a simple step.

Each of these steps in the journey is not building on what is already there, but rather removing that which does not belong. And it is the same with our spiritual journey. All the traits and attributes of an immortal being are already within each of us. This is our soul, our spirit. It is this purity of spirit you see in small children. It is not until one grows that this light is obscured by the "filth of sin". Each step allows this light to be seen a little more brightly.


I believe the Gnostic Gospel you quoted was the same as the one ZeroDeep inquired about in another post from the gospel of Thomas.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I read that verse, consider that you find truth in the verse, and find myself befuddled by your view of women. As for how I view heaven, my words in reply to ZeroDeep reflect my beliefs. (see link given above)

My complaint against women isn't against women in general. It is the fact that women are not pursuing divinity, and it is harming society. I have never said that women could not be divine. I have said, THESE women are not divine, and not worthy of veneration.

The Gospel you quoted to me is about the androgenous nature of God, and how to prepare for union with this. It is the doctrine given to those who are mingled with women, and impure things. There are other doctrines for those who have not known women. But it is similar.

What is befuddling about my view of women? If had truly read the Gospel of Thomas, you would understand where I am coming from. Do I need to consider women? Are the a part of my day? Are they a part of my salvation? Then what have I to do with them? Do they need me? Or I them? I have no desire to interact with them, because I have only know them to be unreliable and dishonest. Show me one who has not been, and I will show you my sister.

What more do have to say about them? Why do you press me on this point? Is it a flaw to remove one's self from women? Is there some "need" to associate with them? Of course there is not. My nature does not exist with them well, because they become attached to the things that compose my nature. In other words, they bug me too much.

When a woman becomes a philosopher, a zealot, a prophet, or a truthful apostle, then I will seek her as a companion. Until she is these things, I will remove myself from her, and her from me.

Raph, If you want to find the mystery of the male-female, then get married and study the tantra. That is a perfetly acceptable path for a man to follow. My path is strictly male, for a very good reason. We have our own temple. You should treat it with some respect. I have no interest in combining what should not be combined.

Also bro, I expected a better answer from you concerning your expectation of heaven. It is intellectually inconsistent to not have a concept of Heavenly things, yet assert a place among them. There is no son of heaven that is ignorant of the place he belongs to. What kind of tortuous misery would be that?

Raph, if you have no concept of heaven, or can form no words to describe your hope, then you have a dead faith, and a spirit that is entirely cut off from God. Even the Muslim praises God with his joy of the description of heaven. Even his praise of the clean waters and fruits to be found there are sufficient for this purpose.

Do you not even expect the greeness of herbs, or the scent of clean garments, or the holy company of the blessed saints, or perhaps the Eternal Light and Presense of God the Father? Why can your mouth make no praise to these things? Even if you praises do not exceed the material things of this world, why do you not make some kind of effort to answer me?

How can I seriously consider you as a wise person, or even a saved person, if you have no faith in the very thing you aspire to? How can you enter a place that you do not have the key to? What share in the kingdom have you, Raph?

I am tired of hearing silly arguments and worthless debates. Tell me of the Kingdom, and assert your place among them who inherit it. Praise it with the praise it is due, because you have not done this, but instead have given me damn excuses. Step up or sit down, man.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Arkaleus
I often wonder at you guys. Why must everything be ruled, controlled, forced, or under some kind of compulsion?

Are you unable to conceive of Liberty, Freedom, Equity, and goodness?

And who ever said I am preaching the Bible? I was speaking about something else, but I am not sure you caught it. I was speaking about the displacement of the Male's God, the Male power, the Male Image by the female, or the demonic.

Get it?

I am rather unhappy with how males treat this issue. They think it is a funny subject! I wonder what they consider to be sacred. I wonder if they even know what sacred is. Most of them seem to worship sex and women, and material things. Don't lie to me and say you do not. I know how you are.

I should not be hearing argument from men in this issue. I am puzzled by it. What part of a male God do you take issue with? Do you lessen yourselves and pollute your own image? I think you do.

Arkaleus

I think part of the problem might be that.....you obviously don't know how I am. You shouldn't be hearing an argument from men in this issue...well, sorry, but I am not a man....thus your confusions.

And, oh, ya.....I get it. To many the femine aspect of God is the holy spirit...(to the christian)...Sophia...(wisdom, to the Gnostic)...And Shakina....(the Hebrew word for God's Glory also indicates feminity.).....but you just call her evil...

Probably because you desire to consider women as evil.

You say we want to oppress men, but there is a long history of just the opposite occuring.

You wonder why women are not desiring to be devine creatures....well, sorry but the Bible is the holy text that is predominate in America, and it seems to indicate that hey, the women can only become devine if her husband DESIRES IT OF HER!!! And, most of the other "devine texts" seem to have the same quirk. Thus the question I asked you above, which you chose not to answer. So, maybe you should be looking at the men for the answer to that question, while they run around rejecting sophia (wisdom), and the holy spirit (the comforter), that brings love, joy, peace, and all those other godly qualities from the father. Since the supression of women has seem to have resulted in the supression of those feminine aspects that are also a part of God.

So, if the little boys need to be sheilded from the evil influences of women as their brains develope, well, why is it, that since the beginning of time, it has been the women's role to be the main caregiver of these children?

[Edited on 30-10-2004 by dawnstar]

Originally posted by dawnstar

Originally posted by Arkaleus
I often wonder at you guys. Why must everything be ruled, controlled, forced, or under some kind of compulsion?

Are you unable to conceive of Liberty, Freedom, Equity, and goodness?

And who ever said I am preaching the Bible? I was speaking about something else, but I am not sure you caught it. I was speaking about the displacement of the Male's God, the Male power, the Male Image by the female, or the demonic.

Get it?

I am rather unhappy with how males treat this issue. They think it is a funny subject! I wonder what they consider to be sacred. I wonder if they even know what sacred is. Most of them seem to worship sex and women, and material things. Don't lie to me and say you do not. I know how you are.

I should not be hearing argument from men in this issue. I am puzzled by it. What part of a male God do you take issue with? Do you lessen yourselves and pollute your own image? I think you do.

Arkaleus

I think part of the problem might be that.....you obviously don't know how I am. You shouldn't be hearing an argument from men in this issue...well, sorry, but I am not a man....thus your confusions.

And, oh, ya.....I get it. To many the femine aspect of God is the holy spirit...(to the christian)...Sophia...(wisdom, to the Gnostic)...And Shakina....(the Hebrew word for God's Glory also indicates feminity.).....but you just call her evil...

Probably because you desire to consider women as evil.

You say we want to oppress men, but there is a long history of just the opposite occuring.

You wonder why women are not desiring to be devine creatures....well, sorry but the Bible is the holy text that is predominate in America, and it seems to indicate that hey, the women can only become devine if her husband DESIRES IT OF HER!!! And, most of the other "devine texts" seem to have the same quirk. Thus the question I asked you above, which you chose not to answer. So, maybe you should be looking at the men for the answer to that question, while they run around rejecting sophia (wisdom), and the holy spirit (the comforter), that brings love, joy, peace, and all those other godly qualities from the father. Since the supression of women has seem to have resulted in the supression of those feminine aspects that are also a part of God.

So, if the little boys need to be sheilded from the evil influences of women as their brains develope, well, why is it, that since the beginning of time, it has been the women's role to be the main caregiver of these children?

[Edited on 30-10-2004 by dawnstar]

Seriously, I hate to sound like an English teacher here - but femine, devine, sheilded and develope are some of the worst typos I have ever come across. I believe your argument would carry much more weight if I wasn't having to think hard each time I came across a typo to try and understand what you actually meant to say. I believe God exhibits mostly masculine traits, I also agree to an extent with Arkaleus' assertion that mingling with females on the whole is detrimental to a males spiritual growth. Many females nowadays want nothing more than to control a mans actions with various forms of cunning blackmail and bribery. They don't want a man to think for himself - they want him to protect them, bring the money home that puts food on the table, buy them gifts and they also want them to act more like women. This is a quite disturbing trend I have become aware of. Males behaving like females and even changing their appearance and patterns of behaviour. This is harmful, it breeds confusion about a mans role in society and place in the world. It stops a man from thinking about more important matters and actually makes him a slave waiting on a woman and catering to her needs in exchange for sex or other forms of gratification. Men need to stop living like this - they need to regain control of their lives, the situation is becoming ridiculous.