The joyful joys of Job Seekers allowance just got more joyful in the UK

reply to post by fiftyfifty

I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!!

So lets say you both lose your jobs and cant find a job with similar wages right away. The job center then forces you to get jobs as shelf stacker with minimum wage, with say split shifts so you cant be there to take your child to school or be there when they get home from school. You cant afford a car, your house, all of your money is spent just getting to work , rent , clothes for your child council tax and food.

You would be happy that both of you are forced to take those jobs under the threat of having any benefits removed?

No one has a job for life these days.

Personally I think the whole system needs to be taken out of political hands, on the one hand we have one side that give away money to garner votes, and on the other who want to give that same money to their rich mates to garner votes..

This see-saw is neither healthy nor conducive to a good system that protects the poor and helps them back to work, while the system we have now bounces between leaving without anything or leaves them stuck in a benefit trap, as neither side seems interested in helping people back to work.

Personally it should be handed back to those that created the system in the first place, the charities that came together and set up the non government run councils of social services.

Edit really really crappy syntax, grammar etc

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I think the whole welfare system is screwed and I know many agree. It is too easy for people to sit in their home (payed for by the tax payer) watch mind numbing daytime TV (which they bought with their benefits = tax payer) and go to the Job centre once a week to sign a form that says they are looking for a job. Alternatively, there are the parents out there who can afford to have 6 children, all payed for by the state who then complain that they are living in poverty. I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!! Life is tough when your jobless but it's tough and frustrating when you're working all the hours god sends to pay for other people to sit around all day whinging!

My gran has a neighbour who has been out of work for two years. He cannot find a job, try as he might. The reason he can't find a job is because there aren't any companies hiring fork lift drivers. My answer to this (in my mind) was "Well open your narrow lazy mind to a different job!" What's wrong with cleaning, stacking shelves or picking cabbages for gods sakes? There are plenty of jobs out there but people are so stuck in this welfare system with the choice to either claim or do a job they don't like. Obviously they are going to choose the former. This mandatory job scheme SHOULD be enforced and everyone who is claiming, as long as they are able, should be forced to do whatever job is available not let us hard workers pick up the tab.

I'm sick of paying for the Jeremy Kyle nation and if anyone should be moaning about the government it's us slaves to the tax system!

edit on 22-10-2012 by fiftyfifty because: (no reason given)

Sorry but you do realise how , sheep - ish that sounds dont you ?

If you believe everyone on the dole is a lay about scum-bag , from a TV stand up comedy drama show like Jeremy Kyle, maybe you want to get out more often and stop watching the television.

reply to post by JeZeus


I don't want to turn this into an insult contest, but you obviously aren't homeless your at mum's. I never said squaddie, I said said ex soldier, I served in the I.D.F. and no I'm not jewish it was just national service, my job was to rescue' at all costs civillians from harm; regardless of faith creed or colour. Bet you didn't know that even exists. Cost me my best mate my thumb and shedloads of scars> Don't be angry , just go and do , be different. Take control of you life.................... your choice !

reply to post by JeZeus


I was using JK as a tongue in cheek reference. I'm aware that not all benefit claimants are like that but being from and living in an area with relatively high unemployment, I'm well aware (first hand) of how many live their lives. Unfortunately a lot of them cannot see the wood for the trees and can't see a way out. Now... who does that make the sheepier sheep? I don't rely on government handouts, instead I have to work in order to have some kind of life where I don't rely on other people. I'm well aware that all of this may be in vein and only serves to enrich the lives of the elite but at least I can keep my bubble in tact using my own soap. I'm not saying that it is the ideal and I am certainly not happy with it but rather this lifestyle than the other option.

Article 4
Prohibition of slavery and forced labour.

1No one shall be held in slavery or servitude..
2No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour..
3For the purpose of this Article the term “forced or compulsory labour” shall not include:.

(a)any work required to be done in the ordinary course of detention imposed according to the provisions of Article 5 of this Convention or during conditional release from such detention;.
(b)any service of a military character or, in case of conscientious objectors in countries where they are recognised, service exacted instead of compulsory military service;.
(c)any service exacted in case of an emergency or calamity threatening the life or well-being of the community;.
(d)any work or service which forms part of normal civic obligations.

~Being forced to work for one month , one week , one day , or even one hour , without pay , is ILLEGAL.~



www.legislation.gov.uk... ........ scroll down - click "SCHEDULE 1 The Articles" and check out your rights .

Off topic -> check out Article 16

~Being forced to work for one month , one week , one day , or even one hour , without pay , is ILLEGAL.~

But it isn't without pay is it if you are still receiving benefits? Or do they not count?

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!!

So lets say you both lose your jobs and cant find a job with similar wages right away. The job center then forces you to get jobs as shelf stacker with minimum wage, with say split shifts so you cant be there to take your child to school or be there when they get home from school. You cant afford a car, your house, of your money is spent just getting to work , rent , clothes for your child council tax and food.

You would be happy that both of you are forced to take those jobs under the threat of having any benefits removed?

No one has a job for life these days.

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

No because I would ALWAYS find work myself even if that meant borrowing a mates ladders and going door to door window cleaning until I found something more reliable. When there's a will there's a way. If things came to the very worst, we would have to sell the house and I'm sure the equity will tide us over for rent until we managed to get back on our feet.

That said, of course there is a place for benefits. JSA should be there for when people fall on times of misfortune and to assist but unfortunately, that's not what it's used for. The system is well and truly abused.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
reply to post by JeZeus

 

I was using JK as a tongue in cheek reference. I'm aware that not all benefit claimants are like that but being from and living in an area with relatively high unemployment, I'm well aware (first hand) of how many live their lives. Unfortunately a lot of them cannot see the wood for the trees and can't see a way out. Now... who does that make the sheepier sheep? I don't rely on government handouts, instead I have to work in order to have some kind of life where I don't rely on other people. I'm well aware that all of this may be in vein and only serves to enrich the lives of the elite but at least I can keep my bubble in tact using my own soap. I'm not saying that it is the ideal and I am certainly not happy with it but rather this lifestyle than the other option.

I`m still failing to see why you assume i do not want to work , i have no other choice but to claim JSA or i`ll starve , and die . Are you awake ?

I`m not disabled so i cant claim anything like that , not injured or sick , i`m activley seeking work , and i`ve been a taxpayer since 2003 , so i honestly do not understand what anyone`s problem is with me claiming JSA.

At the end of the day i`m happy with food / water and the odd smoke here and there , i`m not expensive to keep , the courses like A4e are though , they make money out of the unemployed by selling them and shuffling them around thier sister companies ..... and where does that money come from ?

The sad thing is there are people out of work because of the the government who are looking and wanting to work and are going to be hit by this.

I also think if you dont want to work you should get some kind of compensation. Its not like you can cut your self off from society if you dont agree with it in England. all the land is owned and its near enough impossible to fend for your self without trespassing or breaking the law. why should you work and pay taxes if the government are going to spend it on things you don't agree with. like filling their champaign glasses whilst killing innocent people.

Originally posted by JeZeus

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
reply to post by JeZeus

 

I was using JK as a tongue in cheek reference. I'm aware that not all benefit claimants are like that but being from and living in an area with relatively high unemployment, I'm well aware (first hand) of how many live their lives. Unfortunately a lot of them cannot see the wood for the trees and can't see a way out. Now... who does that make the sheepier sheep? I don't rely on government handouts, instead I have to work in order to have some kind of life where I don't rely on other people. I'm well aware that all of this may be in vein and only serves to enrich the lives of the elite but at least I can keep my bubble in tact using my own soap. I'm not saying that it is the ideal and I am certainly not happy with it but rather this lifestyle than the other option.

I`m still failing to see why you assume i do not want to work , i have no other choice but to claim JSA or i`ll starve , and die . Are you awake ?

I`m not disabled so i cant claim anything like that , not injured or sick , i`m activley seeking work , and i`ve been a taxpayer since 2003 , so i honestly do not understand what anyone`s problem is with me claiming JSA.

At the end of the day i`m happy with food / water and the odd smoke here and there , i`m not expensive to keep , the courses like A4e are though , they make money out of the unemployed by selling them and shuffling them around thier sister companies ..... and where does that money come from ?

Don't take it as a personal dig. I'm sure there are genuine reasons why you are in the situation you're in. My argument is against the hundreds of thousands that are sponging off the system and in fact making it more difficult for people who genuinely need help like yourself. The system is flawed and as a tax payer yourself in the past, I'm sure you can appreciate that no one likes paying to keep a dosser.

Originally posted by ThePeopleParty
The sad thing is there are people out of work because of the the government who are looking and wanting to work and are going to be hit by this.

I also think if you dont want to work you should get some kind of compensation. Its not like you can cut your self off from society if you dont agree with it in England. all the land is owned and its near enough impossible to fend for your self without trespassing or breaking the law. why should you work and pay taxes if the government are going to spend it on things you don't agree with. like filling their champaign glasses whilst killing innocent people.

Quite simple really. If you don't like it, leave. Why should everyone else have to pay their way whilst others get paid to not participate in society. That doesn't sound like a fair deal to me.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!!

So lets say you both lose your jobs and cant find a job with similar wages right away. The job center then forces you to get jobs as shelf stacker with minimum wage, with say split shifts so you cant be there to take your child to school or be there when they get home from school. You cant afford a car, your house, of your money is spent just getting to work , rent , clothes for your child council tax and food.

You would be happy that both of you are forced to take those jobs under the threat of having any benefits removed?

No one has a job for life these days.

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

No because I would ALWAYS find work myself even if that meant borrowing a mates ladders and going door to door window cleaning until I found something more reliable. When there's a will there's a way.

That said, of course there is a place for benefits. JSA should be there for when people fall on times of misfortune and to assist but unfortunately, that's not what it's needed for. The system is well and truly abused.

Hmm , so you would just waltz into a window cleaning job ? because its below you and they would think thier dreams have come true when they read your CV ? i think i know what kind of crowd i`m dealing with hear so i will politley ask you to refrain from posting your Ivory tower bull#.

That`s what JSA is for , that`s what it does , but a handfull of smack rats end up on the dole and the whole country starts treating neighbours friends and family members like scum , i`d actually be a lot happier without these people around..... you know the type , they think they are single handedly holding up the economy because they can afford the new gadgets, cars , houses and what not , its actually ignorant snobbery .
And i say ignorant because your type always seem to forget where you came from , who you grew up with .... your old friends might be out there eating out of bins and sleeping under bridges ..... but youve got an I pod , you`re the boss

Thank you.,

reply to post by fiftyfifty


That depends on what you mean by dosser , i meet a lot of people at the jobcentre and a majority of them are actually good people , even some of the odd ones have a good side to them and the people who DO sit around doing nothing ~ to be honest i dont blame them , i blame the government , past and present , and the ignorance that has blinded my fellow countrymen.

Originally posted by JeZeus

Originally posted by fiftyfifty

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!!

So lets say you both lose your jobs and cant find a job with similar wages right away. The job center then forces you to get jobs as shelf stacker with minimum wage, with say split shifts so you cant be there to take your child to school or be there when they get home from school. You cant afford a car, your house, of your money is spent just getting to work , rent , clothes for your child council tax and food.

You would be happy that both of you are forced to take those jobs under the threat of having any benefits removed?

No one has a job for life these days.

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

No because I would ALWAYS find work myself even if that meant borrowing a mates ladders and going door to door window cleaning until I found something more reliable. When there's a will there's a way.

That said, of course there is a place for benefits. JSA should be there for when people fall on times of misfortune and to assist but unfortunately, that's not what it's needed for. The system is well and truly abused.

Hmm , so you would just waltz into a window cleaning job ? because its below you and they would think thier dreams have come true when they read your CV ? i think i know what kind of crowd i`m dealing with hear so i will politley ask you to refrain from posting your Ivory tower bull#.

That`s what JSA is for , that`s what it does , but a handfull of smack rats end up on the dole and the whole country starts treating neighbours friends and family members like scum , i`d actually be a lot happier without these people around..... you know the type , they think they are single handedly holding up the economy because they can afford the new gadgets, cars , houses and what not , its actually ignorant snobbery .
And i say ignorant because your type always seem to forget where you came from , who you grew up with .... your old friends might be out there eating out of bins and sleeping under bridges ..... but youve got an I pod , you`re the boss

Thank you.,

Right, firstly... calm yourself down. I tried to make you understand that my original reply wasn't personal but general towards the welfare state but you refuse to accept that. Secondly, If you read my reply, CV's have nothing to do with i as I said 'borrow' a mates ladders and go door to door looking for work effectively being my own employer. You are entitled to your opinion but it appears that your anti establishment views are clouding your distinction between hard workers and snobs. Believe what you like but I am very much aware of my past and my existing connections to it. I do not live in an ivory tower and possess all of the gadgets and wonderments the modern society craves. I work bloody hard to get the things I need and the occasional luxury to reward myself. I have friends and family from all backgrounds and a lot have them have been driven by their poor upbringings to make something of their lives, me being one of them. I didn't go to uni or have any financial help growing up, Everything I have today, I made myself albeit fairly modest. So please refrain from judging people as I am starting to get the idea that your attitude is the reason you are out of work.

reply to post by fiftyfifty


Of course window cleaning would be illegal unless you set up your own business doing it and paid all the right taxes etc. Also there can only be a certain amount of window cleaners. Window cleaning would not pay for your house , car , council tax , transport and clothes if other people were trying to do it as well. Window cleaning or jobs like it were used up and gone a long time ago.

The point im making is that with these new rules the government could force you into the lowest standard of living possible instead of giving you support while you look for a decent job that you are qualified to do. They could force you into a job that could make you give up your house , car , not be able to afford to feed or clothe your child and make it even harder to get back into meaningful employment. What if you have no car and there are no jobs close enough to you that you can take a bus or walk? Its a rut that is very , very difficult to get out of.

Dont forget with the new rules on ESA what used to be the old incapacity benefit you can be blind, with 2 legs and 1 arm missing and you will still be fit for work. If you cant afford a car and you cant walk your options a super limited.

Im not making excuses for the real scroungers out there. But they are not as plentiful as the government would have us believe. But by bringing these rules in employers will start to lower their wages and start to treat their works badly because they know that they cant afford to leave the jobs any more.

I think it would also be wise to add that this is exactly what we need to change. Two opposing opinions of the same subject but in reality we both share the same common belief that we should all be treated fairly. Unfortunately it is the rich pigs at the top and the scroungers at the bottom that grab the limelight. US... the general hard workers or those hard workers that have fallen upon hard times are forced by the media and the gov. into a sense that it is only the two opposing sides at either end of the spectrum that matter and only one of them will prevail, a social war. You and I aren't so different.

It's funny that people like George Osborne don't understand that his first class ticket, is worth more than two weeks JSA , that must pay for food, gas, electricity and travel too and from potential work. Something suggests these people don't get it.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty

Originally posted by JeZeus

Originally posted by fiftyfifty

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by fiftyfifty

 

I am married, both of us are on a decent salary each, we have a mortgage and bills to pay and WE can't afford one child!!!

So lets say you both lose your jobs and cant find a job with similar wages right away. The job center then forces you to get jobs as shelf stacker with minimum wage, with say split shifts so you cant be there to take your child to school or be there when they get home from school. You cant afford a car, your house, of your money is spent just getting to work , rent , clothes for your child council tax and food.

You would be happy that both of you are forced to take those jobs under the threat of having any benefits removed?

No one has a job for life these days.

edit on 22-10-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

No because I would ALWAYS find work myself even if that meant borrowing a mates ladders and going door to door window cleaning until I found something more reliable. When there's a will there's a way.

That said, of course there is a place for benefits. JSA should be there for when people fall on times of misfortune and to assist but unfortunately, that's not what it's needed for. The system is well and truly abused.

Hmm , so you would just waltz into a window cleaning job ? because its below you and they would think thier dreams have come true when they read your CV ? i think i know what kind of crowd i`m dealing with hear so i will politley ask you to refrain from posting your Ivory tower bull#.

That`s what JSA is for , that`s what it does , but a handfull of smack rats end up on the dole and the whole country starts treating neighbours friends and family members like scum , i`d actually be a lot happier without these people around..... you know the type , they think they are single handedly holding up the economy because they can afford the new gadgets, cars , houses and what not , its actually ignorant snobbery .
And i say ignorant because your type always seem to forget where you came from , who you grew up with .... your old friends might be out there eating out of bins and sleeping under bridges ..... but youve got an I pod , you`re the boss

Thank you.,

Right, firstly... calm yourself down. I tried to make you understand that my original reply wasn't personal but general towards the welfare state but you refuse to accept that. Secondly, If you read my reply, CV's have nothing to do with i as I said 'borrow' a mates ladders and go door to door looking for work effectively being my own employer. You are entitled to your opinion but it appears that your anti establishment views are clouding your distinction between hard workers and snobs. Believe what you like but I am very much aware of my past and my existing connections to it. I do not live in an ivory tower and possess all of the gadgets and wonderments the modern society craves. I work bloody hard to get the things I need and the occasional luxury to reward myself. I have friends and family from all backgrounds and a lot have them have been driven by their poor upbringings to make something of their lives, me being one of them. I didn't go to uni or have any financial help growing up, Everything I have today, I made myself albeit fairly modest. So please refrain from judging people as I am starting to get the idea that your attitude is the reason you are out of work.

Actually i`m a "realist" , you cant just pick up a ladder and do a window round , most rounds are owned and you need to pay.

My "anti establishment views" are a result of being raised in a country that has been sold so many times its about 50th hand , surrounded by people who think that having a job is "making something of your life" and just love to tell you how amazing they think they are.

Self centered ignorant sheep.

And for the record , if anything it is what little pride i have left that is preventing me from getting work , as i refuse to be TOLD what i will do for a living , i`ve watched these idiots and thier puppets for over a decade and i know how they work ... i also know my rights as a human being.

You should ease yourself into a trade skill. Something that your skills will allow you to work alone on jobs that require no business to hire you. Your work would be based on your initiative. It can be yard work/painting/auto repair/dog walking/computer repair/moving truck (rent one) Being independent of business/government is best in the long run. You sound pretty independent,move your life in that direction.