Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

There seems to be quite a few people posting that use words like 'normal' and 'normality'. I've been on this planet for over 35 years and still have no understanding of what 'normal' is. The best explanation I can give is that 'normal' is whatever a certain person classes as normal based on their own lifesytle and surroundings.But that lifestyle and surroundings my be entirely different to another persons claim of 'normal'. Normal seems to be what someone classes as what makes them comfortable in their own mind.

If i like to work hard all week, and then have a bet on the weekends races, then to me that is normal. But many of my mates think i'm crazy for wasting my money and what i'm doing is far from normal. But alot of my mates that comment to me, have also burried themselves into half a million dollars debt, and don't have any spare money to punt with even if they wanted to, and to me thats not normal. So who is right or wrong ?

I personally believe that in this case, its the word tolerance that needs to be focused on, not the word normal. Because the more tolerant we become, the more things we'll class as normal, instead of wierd, un-natural, wrong, or any other term used to desrcibe what someone else considers not to be normal !

And remember, there was a period in time when it was "normal" to think you'd sail off the side of the Earth if you travelled to far. But what is "normal" ?

Originally posted by Cynic

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Phenomium
This will never work. A waste of taxpayers money and even if you have two brain cells and ONLY two brain cells...so long as the two can communicate, common sense will tell anyone, except gays of course....that this is just stupid. One procreates and brings forth life...the other is based on nothing but lust of the flesh and produces nothing but trouble.

I don't hate gays but let's call a spade a spade....if everyone were gay they world's population would die in one to two generation. Alas....now we have a motive and it fits all the other motives of trying to poison us, kill us in wars etc.

The International Bankers are behind this. They fund feminism, this kind of crap...anything so long as it causes a rift between citizens or race or sexes or so long as we die from it.

So in short...you don't hate gays...but think they're part of an agenda to wipe out humanity. Got it, makes perfect sense

For crying out loud, when will people finally arrive in the 21st century?

Just another leftist BS agenda.
Time to just say Shut Up to these special interest wing nuts.

Great argument...an ad hominem attack...kudos

reply to post by WhisperingWinds

Actually many of them do..I'd go as far as to say most of them...some with the same gender , and some with opposite genders, and some with both.

Re-read what you just wrote

Pedophiles can't have sexual relationships with consenting adults BECAUSE CHILDREN AREN'T CONSENTING ADULTS!!

I really don't think that the goal of this program is to tell all children heterosexuality isn't normal and homosexuality is. That would be retarded and false information because heterosexuality is the normal in our culture. The program is saying that some people might feel differently. Though I do feel this is a discussion more appropriate for when you have sex-ed class tons of people are under the impression that it will turn kids gay and that's pretty silly. Why can't kids in puberty who are gay think "hey heterosexuality looks cool I want to try that"? It just doesn't work, if it did me and many others would probably change. If God is real it's a shame he condemns gay people but they have no chance to change. I know I have said this before but in the bible 2,000 years ago couldn't people have done homosexual acts to avoid pregnancy and still achieve sexual thrill? Why would God condemn something that kids don't consciously choose? Regardless if its from how you were raised or if you were born that way they still have no choice. Its like saying "Hope your not unlucky enough to become the one in ten people who go to hell! Or else you have no chance EVER of salvation!" It is extremely clear that in this day and age kids do not choose to be gay and go under intense mental turmoil when they find out. Many reject the idea and try to deny it because they still want their family to love them but it doesnt make it go away. Being told they are disgusting is just what leads to self-hate, suicide, and rejection of religion. Who wants to follow a religion that's so fulled by hate?

I understand religion is what initially fulled this debate, I think now it is more so that people are uncomfortable with it because they are not gay and it is unknown so they use religion to justify there fear of the unknown. Similar to how a child thinks sex is gross because they don't feel that way yet until they hit puberty.

I know that this thread has made me feel like # for being who I am. I've tried praying every day since I hit puberty at 13 - 15 and nothing changed. The only thing that ever happened when I was extremely drought and praying was I just felt peace and like everything would be ok.Trust me religious followers, IF I COULD CHANGE I WOULD. Your making people feel terrible for one quality that they cannot change. If every gay had an equal chance just to change back to heterosexuality (similar to how some think that if children think being gay is ok they will change to being gay) then I think it would be more fair to spew so much hate. If in the Bible it was referring for heterosexuals to deliberately chose to preform gay acts to avoid conception (similar to condoms) then I understand why it would not be aloud.

It especially hurts when someone says they just hate your gay but not you as a person. Hating the one main quality that you can't do anything about still makes you feel like #. Why wouldn't god make modern gay people be able to chose to turn to heterosexuality? If you look at those ex-gay places its next to zero success, the people who are "successful" just deny themselves so much they believe it. I know this because my uncle was like that, years later when he was older he told my grandparents that he never actually changed he just chose to believe it wasnt there but it always was.

Could any religious people give me there opinions? I hope this doesnt seem like an angry post I just feel kind of terrible after reading what almost everyone on this thread thinks of me. Trust me guys theres nothing more I want then to have the traditional family unit but its out of my grasp unless i fake love a wife.

reply to post by dontreally


My approach in establishing some sort of cogent posture as to the reasoning behind the general accord of school boards across the developed world and their efforts to begin instructing children early on the true nature of reproduction and sexual orientation, is to first start with microbiology and work my way up from there. THAT is what is sane and THAT is what is purposeful. It is only through firstly, having a comprehensive understanding of the primordial building blocks of life in general (in the beginning of our lives, in the womb, shortly after conception as higher primates) and secondly, by comprehending the effects of stimuli (nurture and environment) after birth in the ontogeny and phenotypes, that will we ever find an agglomerate position to take regarding the two aspects of sexual behaviour.

These two aspects are my second point of address and in my original and highly disconcerting (to some) post, it was my intent to with them, create a syllogism. I did a poor job; my fault. I certainly did not mean to come across as tendentious. We have been discussing here in this thread, two closely linked, but vastly different topics. Those being, sexual preference in picking a sexual partner and the kinds of, or lack of, sexual reproduction. If you take a myopic view of the latter you will have a perspective of the former as that is rather akimbo. You can not fathom the variances or their prevalence if you obsess only on heterosexual reproduction, or heterosexual mate preferences in higher mammals. You must have a holistic view of biology. For instance, if you want to focus only on discerning the norm through mankind you run into issues like this one; do you know the number of males (in the U.S.) that identify as heterosexual? Of those males do you know the number that admit to regularly or even occasionally partaking in some form of “backdoor play” (sorry for being trite, but I don't know if my post would have gotten pulled for accurate language) for pleasure during sexual intercourse? As an aside, we already roil the waters with this last direction and will get the “gay isn't natural” crowed in a tizzy. The men aren't gay. They prefer female companions for both mates and for the purpose of reproduction. So, what are they? Do we classify them? Do we accept them? Do we talk about it with our children? Or do we continue on like the 1950's and make them denounce the behaviour in public and ingrain homophobic tendencies into their thought process, while stating, “whatever happens behind closed doors”, which will invariably only continue to suppress the real issue (intolerance) and have an insalubrious affect on them all the while.

If you do not have a healthy and level view (or at least allow science to pursue such understanding) of the hormonal effects on a foetus while in uteruo and we can not come to grips with what those effects manifest in the child as he matures and reaches young adulthood, then we do our species a extraordinary disservice. If we can adequately ruminate upon the millions of years that every progenitor spent in the mud and sulphur pits as nothing more than bacteria and protozoa and we can not understand that foundational evolutionary blueprints are hard to rewrite at times, even for the highest of primates, then you do a great and grave disservice to our progeny. The fact of the matter is, that regardless of how removed we seem from our distant relatives we are still in cognate nexus with them.

The reason one of my previous posts held a link to a site that (as another member pointed out) seems to go against what I am trying to argue, is that I am attempting to keep the door open (A skill seemingly shared by fewer and fewer these days) as opposed to simply calling a thing black or white. I find myself more open to ideas that establish they are only a rubric.

Pay attention. There is absolutely NO reason that biology should have traded asexual or hermaphroditic reproduction for heterosexual reproduction. It is actually LESS sane and LESS intelligent. It is LESS efficient and LESS effective. It is LESS streamlined and it is LESS safe. The competition between rival males of almost any heterosexual reproducing species alone, is evidence enough for this statement. It is true that theories like evolution and fields of study like micro and macro biology have yet to satisfactorily explain the reason that nature opted for a less efficient and highly wasteful means of reproduction in so many species and it is true that it is still unclear as to the biological significance or even frequency of homosexual tendencies in the larger part of the biomass worldwide. But that, despite all of the fervent attempts of those who wave the flag of sexual standard and morality, goes both unchanged and remains largely otiose. Otiose because of math.

reply to post by dontreally


Adding up all living creatures that reproduce via parthenogenesis and adding to that sum the number of creatures from all species that engage in homosexual preferences and adding then to that, all species that engage in activities with their mate of opposite gender that (by our conditioned “christian ethics”-based psyches) are often acts relegated to homosexuals, then we approach a pellucid (and extremely damning to the cause of heterosexual-law-of-nature folk) understanding of the way nature ACTUALLY works and not the way some WANT it to work. The preponderance becomes supernumerary.

It is to this end that I empathize with the endeavours of our schools and it is to this end that I empathize with those among our humanity that continue to get marginalized for the sake of preserving some preconceived notion of how nature HAS to work for the narrow-minded and intolerant few. The focus of all of this curriculum is to propagate tolerance and understanding, not make more gays. It is to allow those, who whether by nature or nurture find themselves going in a direction that is different from what is falsely considered the paucity, to feel comfortable, accepted and grounded in the knowledge that they are indeed not among any sexual deviants and not involved in turpitude. Keep in mind we are talking about secular curriculum and it would be just as reasonable under the same logic to explain the biological occurrence of uxoriousness or polyandry and to explain it void of moral connotation.

The real worry for many who repudiate these ideas is that somehow telling little Johnny that he isn't a freak will open the flood gates for any and all sexual misbehaviour to be accepted. It is the worry of many that bestiality or pederasty will be recognized as a real and reasonable sexual preference. That is the real bottom line. Many just see this as the opening of the flood gate. I say, calm down and love our children, love your brothers and sisters.

I respect those who do not see my paradigm. It is hard for many to see things in such a broad scope. The fact of the matter is, is that not everything fits into a teleological view at all times or sometimes we just can't see it properly. Not everything can be dealt with pragmatically. I can tell you this, that patience and tolerance are panacean. I am known for my obstinacy, so good luck from here.

Daniel L.

reply to post by vendettent


((( Hug ))) oh geez....that was a powerful and heartfelt post.....and it makes me sad if this thread has made you feel bad about yourself .....I think the majority of people here don't wish harm on gay people.

My guess is your pretty young, under 30...and have a religious background that is in conflict with your sexuality...I truely have empathy for the realities you are faced with,... no, you can not have a traditional family unless you are willing to lie and pretend to be somebody different then you are, and I admire that you are wise enough to know that isn't right.

What do you believe, if anything could or would change the painful reality that being gay is not easy or what many percieve as the "norm" in society.....would a different approach to education have made a difference in the difficulties you are facing now?

My "Mommy" advice would be to tell you to move to a gay friendly community, fall in Love, and adopt...lot's of kid's out there that need a loving home....but also understand that your kids will most likely be straight, and you will have a responsibility to teach them about sexuality from that perspective....

I hope you find peace, love and are able to have the family you wish for someday....♥

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Thanks for the reply it means a lot more then you think. I am in fact 16. Maybe I've been in a greater turmoil because I am still in puberty? I feel that my Christian parents were good people they taught me (I have a lesbian aunt) that hate and disgust towards homosexuality was wrong. I don't think I fit the typical stereotype of a gay man. When I've told people in my inner friend circle they never would of guessed, I think the whole gay scene to too much about sex without a true connection so its not for me. If I ever do go through with my feelings i just want someone like me who seems like the average male. I am still confused as the traditional way of sodomy doesn't appeal to me but obviously the other things do or else I wouldn't be gay. I think when I was younger if my school taught basic sex ed but said that not everyone is the same would of been more comforting. My father is a biology enthusiast and believes that homosexuality has something to do with exposer of estrogen or abnormal development in the womb. He shares the belief that homosexuality in the bible could refer to sex to avoid conception deliberately from a heterosexual male to seek thrill (he said that it did happen in the past because there wasn't condoms). If you look at the Hebrew version of the bible the word in many verses in refers to males who prostitutes themselves to other men to praise the pagan fertility goddess. Its just terrifying when I see so much hate towards gays because its unchangeable. I still wish all the time could be heterosexual but I realize it won't change and I should try to stop hating myself but my self esteem is already ruined so its hard.

I still try to pray every day change but one time its hard to describe but I felt like I was being hugged and all my worries went away for a short moment and I just felt like everything was fine. I try to just keep to myself but seeing openly gay kids in my school being constantly bullied by people saying there going to hell is most hurtful to them but also hurts me. I used to feel like I had zero chance for salvation but after praying that one time it feels like someone is looking out for me and though I still feel terrible all the tome I still think everything is gong to be ok and I don't fear death anymore. I tthink religion shouldent be about spreading the word about things you should do to avoid hell but rather spreading love. I think the whole gay culture and how it is (such as pride please) is a result from all the hate they are given. Ive always been a humble and kind person even so much I used to be constantly manipulated so it was hard hear I was an evil person with no hope. I don't think anyone would chose to be gay because pf all the hhardship that follows. I value others opinions a lot and I can't describe how awful I feel when I read these things but I guess I just have to have hope and continuing to try to be the best person I can be.

reply to post by vendettent

I still try to pray every day change but one time its hard to describe but I felt like I was being hugged and all my worries went away for a short moment and I just felt like everything was fine. I try to just keep to myself but seeing openly gay kids in my school being constantly bullied by people saying there going to hell is most hurtful to them but also hurts me.

I'm sorry you have felt pain, and teaching hate, or condemning others to hell is not what I was taught in my religion.

Many people have been told they were going to hell for a variety of reasons, whether it be gambling (even buying lottery tickets), to a whole list of other reasons.

Many people are judged, and picked on, and made to feel like outcasts, and unworthy, by many who are not religious as well, for a variety of reasons, and it seems to be the way of this world at times. People are not always going to agree on the other choices that people make in their lives(with many things besides sexuality), and it is ok to disagree, but not to the point of being very rude and unkind. Sometimes people say things in the heat of a moment , and can also regret what they have said.

Its tough for a lot of 16 year olds, in the aspect of feeling accepted and loved , just as it is tough for adults at times. I've seen kids and adults totally picked on, and bullied just because of their religious beliefs , so the hateful attitudes come from many directions, and for many reasons.

You are so correct when you say that love is what matters, but love doesn't always have to agree with everything that someone may do or feel, to still love and care.

I wish you the best in life, and you seem like a very thoughtful, kind soul. I hope your attitude helps others around you try to become better humans, because the world does need more love, and less judgment.

Since we're almost halfway through the first decade of the 21st century, don't you people think it's time that we started showing a little bit more tolerance...? Think of it this way; what if heterosexuality wasn't the norm but homosexuality was? How would you feel knowing that society thinks that there is something with you?

It's not a very nice feeling is it?

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Originally posted by Wonderer2012

Children to be taught 'heterosexuality not the norm' in Australian schools project

www.lifesitenews.com

Australian school children are to be told that heterosexuality is not the norm, according to a new education department pilot program called “Proud Schools.”

“Heterosexism” is one of the evils that the Proud Schools program is intended to stamp out, along with “homophobia and transphobia,” education officials have said. According to the minutes from the Proud Schools steering committee on March 22, 2011, the program focuses on reversing “the dominance of heterosexism rather than on homophobia.”

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is EVIL. Why? because “Heterosexism” IS THE NORM. There are far less homosexuals than there are heterosexuals. If they are anything like the USA, then they have a very tiny gay population too.

....... It's a LIE.

you should not mistake the headline for the facts.

Heterosexism is NOT Heterosexuality.

Heterosexism is a bias towards heterosexuals - nothing more or less.

Using this as an argument that "heterosexuality is not the norm" is the lie.

It is right there in the piece you have quoted - saying one thing is being taught.....and then blatently saying it means something completely different - I guess the words look different so your basic thicko bigot can't tell the difference??

Its a funny old world, when we were young and growing up you were either boy or girl, these days you get to choose your sex, how amusing. Each to their own but don't preach it and make your personal reality trendy or encourage others to follow your way.

Education nothing more than social engineering. Its rather funny the church started much of the schooling and the teachers took over after a bit of re branding. Pedophiles are linked to both professions, priest and teachers both appear to have their own agendas.

Originally posted by xKhaosXREVolutionXx
Since we're almost halfway through the first decade of the 21st century, don't you people think it's time that we started showing a little bit more tolerance...? Think of it this way; what if heterosexuality wasn't the norm but homosexuality was? How would you feel knowing that society thinks that there is something with you?

It's not a very nice feeling is it?

Society already thinks there is something wrong with me, for a number of reasons.

I know what it feels like to be considered less intelligent, unworthy to offer any "sane" opinions , to be considered less than because of social status, education, and a myriad of other reasons.

You don't have the corner on being made to feel wrong and not "normal", because you are homosexual.

I get that all the time, for varying reasons and simply because I believe that Jesus had a Divine purpose for being here, for mankind.

reply to post by WhisperingWinds


Actually that is EXACTLY what they are teaching. That different is ok, kids get bullied over a lot, and they really dod not need to have archaic prejudices encouraged.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by Phage

 

It's wrong to teach that persecuting people because they are different is wrong.

In no uncertain terms of course it is.

What is wrong is unduly influencing a child sexual development backed by an agenda. That is wrong

What agenda? They are not encouraging kids to experiment (chances are they already have), they are teaching them not to be bigoted little thugs. How is this wrong?

reply to post by vendettent


I think your posts may be the most important in this whole thread, because really you and other kids are the heart of this whole dicussion. LOL...sorry to call you a kid, your obviously very smart, but still a kid in my eyes

I responded in a U2U on a more personal note to you directly, but I would like to comment on something you said in your last post.....I asked what would have made things better for you in school, and you replied ,being taught in sex-ed that some people are different would have brought you comfort.

I had to really think about this for a few moments...and one of my first thoughts is why do they now call something that when I went to school was "Health Class".... now it is."Sex-Ed" class.....the whole implication being that the purpose of the class is to teach about sex?

I don't know, I have tried my best to express my concerns about sexualizing children in this thread, and it is coming from every direction, this whole discussion is coming from so many different perspectives it must make our Mod's head spin...lol....

I personally would never put my kids in public schools if I was a young parent, I have written alot about this in other threads...we experienced public schools, private school and home school in my daughter's education. I think parents have every good reason to be aware of what thier kids are being taught and to be concerned about ulterior motives and agendas.

I will wrap up this post by saying sweetheart, you are a just perfect the way you are.......

Originally posted by Noinden
reply to post by WhisperingWinds

 

Actually that is EXACTLY what they are teaching. That different is ok, kids get bullied over a lot, and they really dod not need to have archaic prejudices encouraged.

Is that really what they are teaching ?

Show me the exact curriculum so we can discuss it.

reply to post by ollncasino


How is this brainwashing? This is the same as pointing out that every ethnicity are equal, which is an big jump for some knuckle dragging red necks but ....I'd say that you and other posters are using the same bias and agenda but in reverse, a conservative agenda. So lets remove all agenda.

Originally posted by Noinden
What agenda? They are not encouraging kids to experiment (chances are they already have), they are teaching them not to be bigoted little thugs. How is this wrong?

'COS THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS M'KAY??!!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Strange there are many things the bible says, and they are contradictory. Indeed Joseph has two fathers, which could infer a gay grandcouple for Jesus