Vatican release information on masons. Power struggle?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


If you look at the overall effects of, say Catholicism or Freemasonry on human beings and on civilizations, a case could be made that there is more to praise than to demonize...

ETA: Havent been to the Untersberg thread in a year...lack of interest.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
Here is something to chew on.

At the bottom of the document the last section is called FACTS ABOUT FREEMASONRY. Would this suggest that everything above the "facts" section is not actual fact. Technicaly this covers the Vatican for slander.

Nah. Any time someone claims to have a "list of facts" on a sensationalist website such as this, it's the rhetorical equivalent of saying "hold my beer and watch this…"

A quick glance at their "facts" shows the following that are incorrect.

Only 1.3 million members in the US. source. (Guessing that means their worldwide numbers, and number of lodges are wrong too...)

Any Master Mason can join the Shriners. One does not have to be a 32° Scottish Rite or a member of the York Rite Commandary to join.

The Shriners are NOT the highest level of Masonry. Not in the slightest. They wield no power over other Masons.

The bit about JBO is pure and utter nonsense. He claims to be citing Morals & Dogma as a source, but nowhere in that or any other Masonic book does it say we worship Baal. That's just silly. And the only mentions of Osiris are in explaining what the ancient Egyptians believed, not what Masonry believes today.

Likewise the bit about the shriners wearing a red fez because they want to slaughter Christians is 100% fantasy as well.

reply to post by Wifibrains

I would hardly call the "Facts" section factual as Josh points out and as I made reference in my first response.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

If you look at the overall effects of, say Catholicism or Freemasonry on human beings and on civilizations, a case could be made that there is more to praise than to demonize...

ETA: Havent been to the Untersberg thread in a year...lack of interest.

edit on 22-10-2012 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Well, i guess if you measure the value of an organization in the effect it has, you may be right. That would still be highly debatable.

But what of that effect has been borne from positive intent? If I, as a mad gunman, shoot randomly into the crowd, my intent was bad. Even if the effect is to accidentally kill a rapist in the act. Would I then be judged as a good man who had a positive net effect on the world?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I guess its highly unpopular to propose that Catholicism...and actually Christianity in general (as well as Freemasonry) are both of overall positive intent and effect.

Sure, I can dig up bad stuff about Christians or Freemasons. I could point out pedophile Priests and the Inquisition on Catholics or I could drag up the infamous P2 of Freemasonry or the mass murdering Anders Brehvik (who happens to be a Freemason) to point out how "evil" Freemasonry is. But those are false and invalid comparisons. Thats would be like a nurse committing murder and us then concluding that "nurses are murderers".

If you look at Catholicism and Christianities effects on civilization, the building of universities, the helping of the poor, and the conduct of the broad majority of religious people, you can easily see the positive effects. The same goes for Freemasonry who had tremendously positive effects, especially in older times.

If you look, on the other hand, at the enemies of both Christianity and Freemasonry....such as the Nazis and Soviet Communists, you will not see those overall positive effects, you will see a whole lot of darkness.

Now, to get back on topic: There is certainly a conflict between Catholicism and Freemasonry. That is a philosophical conflict that goes back to Christianites claim to exclusivity and Masonries call for tolerance of all Religions. Those two stances are difficult to reconcile.

Given the history of the Vatican, why people still go there is beyond me. They tried to screw with everything that would challenge their power.

reply to post by Wifibrains

Hi

@wifi - youre right...technically they assume justifiable credibility based on such titles...however whether this is actually the case is questionable...

@fitz - youre right it is a worthy challenge for those naysayers of the keyboard type to go and actually prove their claims verifiably...but this is what we would call 'setting up for failure', not because there is nothing to find, but because the "select are the elect"...remember this~
- and in regards to the majority of freemason thread context which you seem to associate my posts with...dont read them, dont need to because the majority is misinformed - though this is not that - so it may make future communications easier to end the generalizations.

One again, this scenario in the OP is to balance power, and this is occurring behind the scenes in more venues and agendas than we can imagine in this moment~

∞LOVE
mayallsoulsbefree∞