So how do you explain existence ?

reply to post by randyvs


Wow you really have lost the plot, you can't even construct a proper rebuttal.

I'm sorry randy I don't share your fear, I don't believe I have anything to fear and I sincerely mean that.

And please explain how I am trolling? This thread is very appropriate for atheists as it concerns the fact of evolution.

I know you religious folks like to have your own threads where there is nobody to tell you you're wrong. I'm sorry but this isn't the thread where you all talk your nonsense about god, there are atheists here who will provide evidence that should educate you.

I suggest you start a thread called lets talk god, atheists not welcome if you don't want a debate.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


More and more you are just revealing fear.
The fear is obvious as you wouldn't even answer the challenge to the debate forum.: And if I did start such athread you'd still be there trolling along.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


I'm not an atheist out if fear, what is there to fear? I am an atheist out of common sense. The existence of a god asks more questions than it would provide answers......... " and we know the universe can exist without a god. "

...................................................................................................................................................... .............


Logic and Reason Dictate that Energy and Matter did not just Create Itself , it Needed a Catalyst . Ergo , a Creator of " It "...............

Atheism is a Belief based on an Unprovable Concept . It can Never Explain the Existance of Order From Chaos............

reply to post by randyvs


I'm not really sure... I am sure you think the same way that I do= Our stance is still better then the other ones. But hey that is life. I will hang around this thread and see what develops. But I still stand (As I am sure you have guessed), by what I have said.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Sounds good Myth although I doubt much else transpires here your intel is always welcome.

Zanti

Same thing goes for you.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit


Logic and Reason Dictate that Energy and Matter did not just Create Itself , it Needed a Catalyst . Ergo , a Creator of " It "...............

Atheism is a Belief based on an Unprovable Concept . It can Never Explain the Existance of Order From Chaos............

Honesty dictates that we don't really know that without a lot of assuming. This is simply fitting god into an area where knowledge might be (as yet) sparse, more "god of the gaps". So far we don't need god to explain what we do know of existence, but as time passes and science progresses, his domain is ever dwindling.

The view of atheism put forward seems very skewed and appears to portray it in a way that is less than honest. It could rightly be called a strawman fallacy.

Atheism is a lack of positive belief, due to nothing to directly indicate that there is any god. It doesn't need proving, god needs proving if atheism is to be discounted. It is simply an honest view (whether right or wrong) and the default position for many, until something turns up to directly indicate a god exists. Your personal "logic and reason" that could accept a "creator" based on assumptions, amounts to an unsubstantiated personal belief and no more. Fair enough to have beliefs, doesn't mean they are true however.

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit


Logic and Reason Dictate that Energy and Matter did not just Create Itself , it Needed a Catalyst . Ergo , a Creator of " It "...............

Atheism is a Belief based on an Unprovable Concept . It can Never Explain the Existance of Order From Chaos............

Honesty dictates that we don't really know that without a lot of assuming. This is simply fitting god into an area where knowledge might be (as yet) sparse, more "god of the gaps". So far we don't need god to explain what we do know of existence, but as time passes and science progresses, his domain is ever dwindling.

The view of atheism put forward seems very skewed and appears to portray it in a way that is less than honest. It could rightly be called a strawman fallacy.

Atheism is a lack of positive belief, due to nothing to directly indicate that there is any god. It doesn't need proving, god needs proving if atheism is to be discounted. It is simply an honest view (whether right or wrong) and the default position for many, until something turns up to directly indicate a god exists. Your personal "logic and reason" that could accept a "creator" based on assumptions, amounts to an unsubstantiated personal belief and no more. Fair enough to have beliefs, doesn't mean they are true however.

edit on 26-11-2012 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: (no reason given)

Energy and Matter are not " Concepts " , they are Realities. From Without Came the Existance of that which is " Within" us .....The Scientific Theory of the Big Bang that Created our Universe and possiblly Many others is based on Mathamatics . We Recognize the Reality of Mathamatics, but who or What Created It ? God if I Know...................

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
Energy and Matter are not " Concepts " , they are Realities.

Agreed. Not sure of the point you are trying to make?

From Without Came the Existance of that which is " Within" us .....The Scientific Theory of the Big Bang that Created our Universe and possiblly Many others is based on Mathamatics . We Recognize the Reality of Mathamatics, but who or What Created It ? God if I Know..................

Until you can show first that a god exists, then show that a god created everything, I will stick with "I don't know". Though it may well be known one day, it might not involve a god of any sort. So far it hasn't.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Well , maybe when we both move Beyond our 4th Dimentional Realities through the Physical Death of our Bodies, we might then Finally have an answer to the Questions Posed here in this Thread.........See you on the other Side Friend ..........

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

Well , maybe when we both move Beyond our 4th Dimentional Realities through the Physical Death of our Bodies, we might then Finally have an answer to the Questions Posed here in this Thread.........See you on the other Side Friend ..........

Fair enough, if what your saying is true, I will seek you out and say hello. In the mean time we wait here and pay our taxes...

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Nice volley guys. I rather enjoyed that.

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


I welcome your response as it was getting a bit dull reading randys mumblings and attempts to project his fear of death on others.

I find your post quite contradictory, I agree with you that energy and matter cannot come from nothing but the same must apply to a god. You can't say something cannot come from nothing and then say but god is eternal and always existed. Using that logic a person could say if something as complex as an omnipotent, omniscient being has always existed it isn't too much of a stretch to say that energy and matter have always existed. You can't have it both ways.

I am certain there is no god, there is nothing apart from the word of man to indicate otherwise. I find the concept of a god a poorly applied theory that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

You must remember that in our history we once believed that a god dropped a man and a woman on the planet and we all come from them. That's a fallacy and has long been proved to be incorrect.

We also believed that a god created our planet and animals, plants etc. in seven days. We now know that also to be wrong.

So we have pushed god back further and further as we have proved how things actually happened. The one thing we do not know is what started the big bang, we don't know where the energy and matter came from but it is safe to say a god wasn't involved. The theist though will cling to their hope that god started the big bang as that is the last place for their god to hide. In time science will discover more answers and eliminate the god theory completely, what will the theist cling to then?

reply to post by GafferUK1981


"........ In time science will discover more answers and eliminate the god theory completely, what will the theist cling to then? "

So then , you are saying Science has replaced the God Theory , thus Becoming Godlike unto itself ? Ah , OK..........

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


Not at all, I am saying that the facts will replace the fantasy.

Science will not become a religion, that's not how it works.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

You must remember that in our history we once believed that a god dropped a man and a woman on the planet and we all come from them. That's a fallacy and has long been proved to be incorrect.

Ok let me try one last time Gaff. You're actually correct in saying the above because for what ever reason the consensus is that most believers even think this is what the Bible teaches. Look for yourself, it says nothing like
this. So yes people believed this then and they still do. But their wrong.

o we have pushed god back further and further as we have proved how things actually happened. The one thing we do not know is what started the big bang, we don't know where the energy and matter came from but it is safe to say a god wasn't involved. The theist though will cling to their hope that god started the big bang as that is the last place for their god to hide. In time science will discover more answers and eliminate the god theory completely, what will the theist cling to then?

This is hardly the case.

reply to post by randyvs


Do you want to back up any of your beliefs or just disagree with mine?

DNA was a bullet in the foot for the scientist when it comes to the debate between Creation or spontaneous life . The DNA also must live in a living cell that also does occur in nature anymore than DNA or RNA . .reply to post by randyvs

Originally posted by SimonPeter

DNA was a bullet in the foot for the scientist when it comes to the debate between Creation or spontaneous life . The DNA also must live in a living cell that also does occur in nature anymore than DNA or RNA . .reply to post by randyvs

 

DNA can survive outside extracellular space, just not for long. It oxidizes quickly and is easily damaged and since it carries the genetic information, it needs to remain intact. If the cell divides with damaged package, the daughter cells are messed up as well.

The nucleus EVOLVED to protect the DNA and not the other way around! Prokaryotic cells did not and do not have a nucleus--their DNA or RNA just floats around in the cytoplasm. The function of the nucleus is to maintain the integrity of the genetic material it contains.

However, just because its normal home is in the cell doesn't automatically mean it was "engineered", "designed", or "created" that way. That's a false dichotomy.

No one accepts "spontaneous life." Please get that out of your vocabulary.

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
So then , you are saying Science has replaced the God Theory , thus Becoming Godlike unto itself ? Ah , OK..........

God is not a theory. To qualify as a theory in science, you need evidence and experiments, ie evolution, gravity, etc. God is a hypothesis at best, and I don't think the idea even qualifies for that. It's personal belief. The purpose of science is not to disprove or replace god. Science tries to figure out how things happen. Don't be angry at science because it don't assume god or any other hypothetical concept exists when performing tests. Science is the one place where you can't build theories on assumptions. We live in a science based society, chances are you benefit from it since you're using a computer right now. Aren't you glad, the computer isn't just based on a bunch of assumptions? It's all good if you want to believe that, science explains the how and religion tries to explain the why and teach morality. They aren't contradictory or mutually exclusive. They can very easily coexist.

i explain it by saying theyre is a god big bang theory is beyond stupid. if nothing exist than nothing can happen. hold out youre hand and make a ballon float out of it with youre mind.. nothing happend did it. it takes a action to make a reaction. if nothing exist not even anti matter are space. nothing exist unless something creates it. nothing just appears ever seen something spawn in real life like on a video game? no no u havent. something are some being created something. for all you know our entire universe could be. a diny dot upon gillion universes are it could be. not even real. how many of you have been to a black hole?? have u touched it?? no u just see it in a book are tv. for all you know we could possible not even be living on earth. how do we know the sun is a star? how many stars have you examined up close? how do you not know if its not a planet with a firey atmosphere? have you drilled to the core? no well hemm me either so god can exist evolution is a lie i will