So how do you explain existence ?

reply to post by GafferUK1981


It seems that such rational thought would be contagious rather than avoided but that's my view.
Victory ? Perhaps the debate forum would suffice if you really want a victory ?

reply to post by randyvs


Well seen as atheism is growing faster than Christianity I guess that means rational thought is contagious.

Unfortunately Islam is also growing faster than Christianity but the people are centuries behind us.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

So atheism is right because it's growing in popularity ?
Now you're just trolling.

reply to post by randyvs


Trolling? You're the one making false statements that even a quick google can correct.

You're the one with nothing meaningful to say resorting to posting pointless videos. I really don't think you're all there.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


It's quite clear that you're the one lacking rational thought amigo. So it's kind of tough to take you seriously.

reply to post by randyvs


Oh sorry that a proven fact such as evolution is irrational to you yet an invisible sky wizard is perfectly logical.

I don't know why I am wasting my time debating with you as you have nothing of value to contribute.

You dismiss evolution although its proven and observable yet you embrace god although all evidence points to the lack of any existence of god.

reply to post by randyvs


Randy, you and I have had our debates before and as always, I bring civility. I am not going to cover your first premise (The Creation Account of Genesis in the bible) as I do not think they are of any use to discuss, as it has been beaten around like a dead horse. However, what I will cover is existence. What does it mean to you? What is your definition of existence? I do not want an encyclopedia definition I want YOUR definition. First, I will explain what I mean by existence. Existence means "Being", not just my being, but natures and your being. Now what derives existence? Nature derives existence. How is this concluded? Because without Nature their can be nothing. Can Nature derive it's own existence? Actually and surprisingly it can, because of two laws: The Law of Conservation of Energy and the Law of the Conservation of Mass/Matter. These laws automatically and without the need of a creator explain the existence of Nature and thus explain ours as well. You could say, "Well, where did these laws come from?" I could then in turn ask you, "Where did your God come from?" If you answer that your God is infinite, then I could very well attribute the same to Nature. "But wait" I hear some shout from the peanut gallery, "What about the second law of thermodynamics?" Good question, once again refer to the above laws. Forget the infinite regression argument on both accounts. So, if I may, what is YOUR definition of existence?

reply to post by TheMythLives


First of all Myth pleasure to have your participation here within.

These laws automatically and without the need of a creator explain the existence of Nature and thus explain ours as well.

I know just like the laws of mechanics can be explained without the need of a mechanic. So this in reality is a pointless comment.

You could say, "Well, where did these laws come from?" I could then in turn ask you, "Where did your God come from?" If you answer that your God is infinite, then I could very well attribute the same to Nature. "But wait" I hear some shout from the peanut gallery, "What about the second law of thermodynamics?" Good question, once again refer to the above laws. Forget the infinite regression argument on both accounts. So, if I may, what is YOUR definition of existence?

The existence of a Creator is what would make the answer to you question very simple and remember that by the protocols of science the easiest answer is the right answer.

The purpose of man's existence my fellow member is to make God smile and increase his family.

Above Top Secret

reply to post by GafferUK1981


See you are irrational.

reply to post by randyvs

and remember that by the protocols of science the easiest answer is the right answer.

No, this is an inaccuracy. A logical fallacy, that I do not think I need to expound upon.

The existence of a Creator is what would make the answer to you question very simple

No, this brings us back to the same premises that I had laid down previously and had already predicted this argument For instance, one could very well say that the creator would complicate things rather then make them simple, as stated by your above premise. We cannot sense this God, let alone understand him; so their really is no point to expound upon with saying that the existence of a creator would simply the question. Of course it would! But that is not the correct answer here. If we would to stop on these premises then we could stop on everything. We don't need science, because we have God on our side and he will cure us... Obviously, their are reasons that the simple explanation should not be expound upon or given any time of day.

The purpose of man's existence my fellow member is to make God smile and increase his family.

Interesting take, which of course I do not agree with, but I will expound upon this as this is your personal belief and I do not attack personal faith stances.

reply to post by TheMythLives


I never agreed with that protocol either.

So where does that leave us pard?

reply to post by randyvs


Some of us Believe that the Creative Consciousness that is Theorized to be " God" spent an Eternity as a Point Source in Nullspace. Its Evolution reached a point of change in which it could not bear the loneliness of isolation. The only recourse perceived by this Consciousness was to Recreate itself throughout an Infinitude of Space Time thereby initiating a sequence of Creating new Gods, new Intelligences, beings to care for him, and for him to care for. This Creative Consciousness loves us because we ended a loneliness that was beyond any ability to Describe in Words.

This Consciousness will never allow the Demise of his Energy/Matter Creations, since it would send him back to the Point-Source past, and that was his Prison. It determined that the Future of Space Time is to Forever Exspand untill that Exspansion Eventually returns all of it's Creations to the Source , the One....

It is also Theorized that the Future is for God to Exspand Forever, for him to increase his Manifest Complexity throughout Infinity. The Creative Consciousness will Expand as we Expand, and that perhaps answers the question as to why we Humans feel driven to Grow rather than to Stagnate. It is God’s Nature to grow and to Exspand in its own Evolution..............


:@@

reply to post by randyvs


You've made it very clear that no matter what argument anybody else puts forward regardless of the amount of supporting evidence you will dismiss it if it goes against your belief in a god. Doesn't the evidence have any bearing on you, have you never wondered why there is so much evidence contradicting your belief, have you ever considered that your god may not exist.

The Greeks and the Romans had to accept that their gods didn't exist and there is no difference in Christians having to accept their god doesn't exist either. The christian god is no more believable than Zeus, Apollo etc.

Let's go through some accepted human knowledge, we know the earth is 4.5 billion years old and this highlights errors in the bible, we know we are the result of evolution which also highlights errors in the bible.

You have to ask yourself, if your god didn't create our planet, didn't create us and doesn't exert any control over our lives why do you spend so much time worshiping the god.

What advantages is there to being a god believer, there is no evidence that believers benefit in life more than atheists. I am an atheist, I'm fit and healthy, have a beautiful girlfriend, a nice house, nice car and a well paid job and a loving family. Why isn't your god punishing me for not believing, why is he allowing me to live a better life than 90% of christians?

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


Sounds a bit new age, never the less appealing. Anything makes a ton more sense than just no Creator. Nope can't have one. That just sounds like total fear based irrational'

reply to post by randyvs


How can not believing in a god be fear based? Surely the opposite is true, and no matter how good a Christian you think you are if there was a hell that's where you'd be going. You can't tell me you've never sinned.

I'm not an atheist out if fear, what is there to fear? I am an atheist out of common sense. The existence of a god asks more questions than it would provide answers and we know the universe can exist without a god.

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Seems to be you fear the possibility of God. Most likely do to a lifestyle. Nomatter what you say in denial God may exist and your denial of that possibility in all rational sense makes you seem fearful so admit it. You're afraid.

reply to post by randyvs


How can I be afraid, I don't accept the possibility that a god may exist so I have nothing to fear.

I can't figure out what I could possibly be afraid of, of course it would also depend on which of the hundreds of gods did turn out to exist as well. What if it wasn't your Christian god, you'd have wasted a boat load of time worshipping the wrong god. Doh!

reply to post by GafferUK1981


That's what fear of the unknown is Gaff. And it's mans worst fear of all. You embellish that fear.
I would even go so far to say you would stop at nothing to relish in it even. Your fear is so great it causes you to troll threads. Always in need of the last word so you can sleep at night.

BTW it's duh not doh!

reply to post by randyvs


Wrong again randy, it's not your day is it?

And trolling threads? Is that what you call it when somebody disagrees with you?

Let me enlighten you on my beliefs to stop you repeatedly jumping to the wrong conclusion.

I don't consider death to be entering the unknown, I consider death to be the end. When my brain dies I will cease to exist, my body and my mind will no longer function. I don't live in fear like you do wondering if I will go to heaven or hell when I die. There is no heaven and hell, death is the end.

This is where atheism has an advantage over theism, we know that this life is our only chance so we don't waste time worshipping non existent gods, we live our lives instead. When your outlook on life is so clear it gives you a better focus on making the most of what you have.

This might be a sombre thought for you but that's life, pardon the pun.

Edit: And its doh!, never watched the Simpsons?

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by randyvs

 

Wrong again randy, it's not your day is it?

And trolling threads? Is that what you call it when somebody disagrees with you?

Let me enlighten you on my beliefs to stop you repeatedly jumping to the wrong conclusion.

I don't consider death to be entering the unknown, I consider death to be the end. When my brain dies I will cease to exist, my body and my mind will no longer function. I don't live in fear like you do wondering if I will go to heaven or hell when I die. There is no heaven and hell, death is the end.

This is where atheism has an advantage over theism, we know that this life is our only chance so we don't waste time worshipping non existent gods, we live our lives instead. When your outlook on life is so clear it gives you a better focus on making the most of what you have.

This might be a sombre thought for you but that's life, pardon the pun.

Edit: And its doh!, never watched the Simpsons?

edit on 26-11-2012 by GafferUK1981 because: (no reason given)

Sounds like more fear to me. Fear and trolling in ATS.