Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Rosicrucianism, and UFOs

a reply to: pigsy2400
a reply to: IMSAM

That's basically why I think it's going to take a collaboration to squeak much out the FS series in the way that we're looking for. It's a lot of ground to cover and the "clues" are pointers at best and hidden amongst a bunch of things that aren't clues. Plus I think Vallee imagined "historians" mining the journals who had an in-depth knowledge of 20th Century phenomenology.

Following the names he drops casually have turned out to be very interesting. I also feel like some or all of the people mentioned that for some reason he doesn't give a last name for might be especially fruitful but I could be off base on that.

I'm digging the idea of a research thread---I think it would be interesting and fruitful over the course of time.

I also want to say I'm really digging chatting with everyone here on the backend of this old thread.

a reply to: The GUT

Likewise matey,

That said i think a thread on Vallees FS series will produce some really interesting info.Dont know how feasible would be for the site to reach to him for an ama,That would be something

Tonight I watched the documentary about Dorthy on Amazon Prime again: Capturing The Light

So I thought I'd revisit this earlier post. Dorothy brings an interesting metaphysical concept and message that really isn't all that different from Contactee messages and probably even fits into a Rosicrucian view along the way.

Folk often mistake that I totally dismiss the ETH. I don't at all. However, if we take ufology as a whole (including abductions and high-strangeness) then I think more often than not we're dealing with something along the lines of the inter-extra-ultra dimensional hypotheses.

The consensus, and I agree, seems to be that Dorthy wasn't hoaxing. If she wasn't hoaxing I believe we come to the two most likely conclusions. Some have hypothesized that Peter Hurkos was able to psychically (as opposed to physically) influence the film in camera and I believe that's a possibility. In that theory he and Dorothy aren't hoaxing, they just don't understand their own ability.

If that's not the case and neither is Dorothy hoaxing then we are left with something that been reported since our recorded history: Contact with beings of light.

I enjoyed the doc and if you have an on-demand service I think you will enjoy it and find it provides some food for thought. The footage in the film is pretty impressive imo.

A ball of light hovered and when Dorothy asked "What do you look like?" there was a bright flash and a "face" appeared to the right of the bright ball. pg. 40

Dorothy asked, "Do you have a name?" There was a sudden flash of light and the object was gone. The developed film showed an explosion of movement with what appears to be a "signature in light" bottom right. pg. 30

This huge ball of light emitted a bright and beautiful blue and lavender light. A smaller object, emitting red and white light, emerged from the lower right portion
of the larger object. Having seen this before, Dorothy identified the smaller light was a "scout" or probe of some kind.pg 57

link

One Frame of Izatt Film

Dorothy was filming a bright light in the sky when it suddenly vanished in a dazzling burst. The developed film showed this apparent "landscape" with lights in the background.

Dr. J. Allen Hynek suggested that it might be a glimpse of the object's home world as it passed through a "window" or portal in time and space. pg. 46

When the long awaited solution to the UFO problem comes, I believe that it will prove to be not merely the next small step in the march of science, but a mighty and totally unexpected quantum leap.

--DR. J. Allen Hynek, scientific advisor to U. S. Air Force's Project Blue Book

Funny he even mentions the word "quantum" because whatever that word represents, it seems to increasingly and often suggest quantum entanglement, many-worlds theory, and the possibility of consciousness equal or greater than our own…living here with us all along.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: The GUT

I do like Vallees Journals but at times its infuriating...FS4 is no different so far

He starts describing some "interesting meetings and topics" with characters like Kit & Hal and then just as you think your mind will be blown, he stops!

The next entry usually goes something like:
"had a hard day and then went to lunch with Bob Dole from Acme Investments"

I feel he should have called it "Forbidden Entrées" at times...

I wondered why he did that diary thing myself. I just skipped a lot of that and vaguely understood why he used that method.

a reply to: The GUT

The thing is people may not understand that this is not a mutually exclusive proposition. To advocate for IDH doesn’t negate ETH. I think people are saying some beings have the ability to maneuver within the varying dimensions.

Damn....it looks like this thread is penetrating the Mainstream Media.....GUT seems to be ahead of the curve as always...

Nor, due to the anonymity of the Invisible College, can the reader evaluate Pasulka’s claim that it really includes “several of the most well-regarded scientists in the world.” (There are two notable exceptions: Jack Parsons, a pioneer of the U.S. space program who was also a leading occultist and magick practitioner—and the subject of the CBS drama Strange Angel–and his Russian counterpart, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky.)

LINK

a reply to: celltypespecific

cellty, if you haven't read Pasulka's American Cosmic I'm pretty sure you will like it. It gives a lot of behind-the-scenes philosophy of those associated with TTSA.

The folk in MM''s thread were pretty quick identifying "Tyler" and "James." "James" is your colleague Dr. Gary Nolan and "Tyler" is...I can't recall his name at the moment but he's definitely a fascinating person.

The above link is to her book on Amazon and here's her website for it with some more articles that may interest you:

American Cosmic Website

Speaking of Nolan, have you come across any information on why he seemed to stop working with TTSA? Maybe I have that wrong but any info you come across would be appreciated. Thanks for all the links you've been posting, I have found them interesting/helpful.

a reply to: The GUT
Thanks Gut!
I will order the book today.... and just when I thought this would be my last week on ATS

a reply to: The GUT

Speaking of Nolan, have you come across any information on why he seemed to stop working with TTSA?

Ha talk about synchronicity !!! I came across the detail today as to why Nolan stopped working with TTSA....I will post below...

The answer is really quite straightforward. I had a number of conflicts of interest with my current employment agreement at Stanford and with other, purely conventional, mainstream business interests. I remain fully supportive of the goals and ideals of TTSA. I plan to advise them as needed-- while remaining under no long-standing contractual framework. Of course, I might from time to time enter into a short term CDA on matters that arise, especially with respect to my academic scientific interests and where I might be able to provide relevant expertise. As I see it, this is more in alignment with my academic work and will (hopefully) ensure I maintain maximum credibility on matters related to the Phenomena. This should eliminate any financial or other conflicts vis-à-vis TTSA in how I discuss such matters. I certainly look forward to the continued success of the TTSA enterprise and I remain good friends with, and a colleague of, all the individuals on the TTSA team. As you know, I am one of the few "mainstream" scientists willing to openly discuss matters related to this area of interest, and I expect to continue my public, and private, interest in the arena.

Link

Hmm this is getting weird...does this mean I am psychic...? LOL

On pasulkas case heres an interesting tweet


"So I hate to put this fact - but I think it’s pretty important and anyone@listening to the podcast will be this too - Diana Pusulkas brother is an experiencer - I think this is very important and could be the reason why she was allowed in the invisible college"


twitter.com...


This ttsa agent is prolly some fan.If i find the podcast being mentioned will post it

originally posted by: The GUT

FYI, I had several profound UFO sightings coming up to a decade ago now... There is certainly a mystery waiting to be solved.

I'd personally love to hear about them either here or in a private message but no worries if you want to keep them to yourself. I know that aspect can be quite personal. I've had two "sightings" that left me with a sense of wonder. One moreso than the other.

Sightings, in general order from 2010-2018:

2010 - 4ft black sauseroid - thing. Appeared out of nowhere in close proximity to me. Hung motionless in the air about 12ft away from me. Sat motionless and soundless for 1 minute, until it slowly "reversed" backwards until it became a speck in the distance.

2011 -Two instances of small (baseball sized) silver spheres. Close proximity to me (30 ft). Darting around very fast. Then halting to a complete stop. Disappeared in two flashes of light. (One instance caught on camera/photo)

2011 -Large translucent Orb, seemed to be in a chase with fighter jets. Very far in the distance, but still discernible. (Caught on Camera/photo).

2012 - Triangular black craft. In the distance, several instances. Interesting lights emitted, yellow, blue & red spirals. Hard to say for certain that they were "triangle" as the bodies of the craft were black, on a black sky. But that's the impression I got.

2012 - Strange white/translucent objects. Moved strangely like a boomerang and plastic carrier bag floating in the wind, but was very large, very far away in the distance.

My last "proper" UFO sighted was the summer of 2018. I was getting the train across the UK, was coming past a stretch of coast when a large silver/black sphere was observed "hanging" in the sky near the coast. Very similar to the small base ball sized orbs, but much larger.

That's just the the main events. I've observed other strange things such as translucent planes with orbs at the centre (I struggle to make sense of these), strange large craft flying extremely low over residential areas, little tiny things that dart across the sky and finally... stars that are not stars, and strange "blinking" stars.

Most prominently me and some friends were stood in the street just "hanging out" for a couple of hours, one evening. We had all noticed one prominent star sitting relatively low in the sky, obviously didn't pay it much attention whilst it was "sat there", that is until after about two hours, it suddenly made a move a flew off!

That was throughout the 2010-2013 "wave" that occurred across the entire area. It wasn't just me and my friends seeing this stuff, but many people were.

Things have calmed down greatly since that "flap", and my last prominent sighting was on that tried ride last summer, crossing the country. Remembering to sky watch occasionally does yield results.

******

I've been thinking a lot about "Unidentified Fascist Observatories"

gorightly.wordpress.com...

I'll inbox you and send you a direct link to those two photos referenced above if you like. They are interesting. but also anti-climatic, so they won't blow your socks off or anything, unfortunately

a reply to: Borderlands

Hey, thanks for sharing, Borderlands. If it wasn't during the flap I'd wonder if you weren't an experiencer-magnet. I made that term up but you know what I mean.

I wish I still had the the links, but a few years ago I went off the beaten path and dug deep into certain experiencers that were posting youtube vids. I was searching for folk that didn't seem to be trying to say, "Hey look at me, subscribe!" but were of a quieter sort who were fascinated with the high-strangeness they were experiencing.

I found a couple of folk who I became convinced were magnets---one of them had that silver/black thing going on. I lost some notes in a computer crash, but I'll dig around a bit and see if I can find them.

Please do send me links to those pics! Going to check out that Gorightly link now.

GUT, I've been trying to find out - so far in vain - if Hynek had corresponded or liaised in any way with Dr Harley Rutledge regarding the Piedmont Lights flap of 1973-onwards.

Hynek's dismissive comments and rather hasty retreat from Piedmont after a 24-hour-stay in 1973 seems to indicate he still had one foot firmly planted in Project Blue Book sceptical territory, but was he not intrigued by Rutledge's subsequent exceptional deeper research when he became more open-minded about the reality of the phenomenon?

Alternatively, perhaps he was not even aware of Rutledge's work there in that less-interconnected world of the time.

I still think Hynek was the Air force intelligence’ man, as Vallee was the CIA's man.

Both had utter contempt for ufology and ufologists. Particularly the ufologists or “theorists” who have or had bizarre ideas about ufos.

originally posted by: Willtell
I still think Hynek was the Air force intelligence’ man, as Vallee was the CIA's man.

Both had utter contempt for ufology and ufologists. Particularly the ufologists or “theorists” who have or had bizarre ideas about ufos.

I'm surprised that such a smooth-talking, laid-back Frenchman such as Jacques would have contempt for anyone, but he was a bit more snippy in the 1960s, I hear.

Yet in 1973, Rutledge was far from a ufologist - essentially a hardcore sceptic before he visited Piedmont and conducted a seven-year scientific study.

Then again, perhaps Hynek lazily dumped him into the same 'ufology bucket' as the others on a whim, even though at the time he was on the cusp of opening his mind to the reality of a Phenomenon.

PS: As I said elsewhere, if the hilariously more-fictional-than-non-fictional but FUN 'Project Blue Book' drama series on the History Channel ever attempts to exploit Hynek's activities after 1969, then his 1973 visit to Piedmont in the guise of Aidan Gillen is likely to be a bit more dramatic...

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

If you read Vallee, he has a lot of hard-edged bitterness in him for certain ufo types. Such as for hypnotists and ET believers. Yet he runs around cavorting with CIA agents for 40 years!

It's a common psychological syndrome where one criticizes others yet does the same themselves to a degree. Self-awareness he should have learned from the Rosicrucians.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: Borderlands

Hey, thanks for sharing, Borderlands. If it wasn't during the flap I'd wonder if you weren't an experiencer-magnet. I made that term up but you know what I mean.

I wish I still had the the links, but a few years ago I went off the beaten path and dug deep into certain experiencers that were posting youtube vids. I was searching for folk that didn't seem to be trying to say, "Hey look at me, subscribe!" but were of a quieter sort who were fascinated with the high-strangeness they were experiencing.

I found a couple of folk who I became convinced were magnets---one of them had that silver/black thing going on. I lost some notes in a computer crash, but I'll dig around a bit and see if I can find them.

Please do send me links to those pics! Going to check out that Gorightly link now.

Er, I sent you a long-ish PM, but I was met with a message saying "You cannot message anyone but ATS staff".

Also haven't been able to flag anything. Is there some rule about this?

a reply to: Borderlands

I think you need something like 20 replies before you can send a pm now that you mention it. Thanks for the attempt. Maybe we can find enough to talk about here to get you to 20.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit
GUT, I've been trying to find out - so far in vain - if Hynek had corresponded or liaised in any way with Dr Harley Rutledge regarding the Piedmont Lights flap of 1973-onwards.

Hynek's dismissive comments and rather hasty retreat from Piedmont after a 24-hour-stay in 1973 seems to indicate he still had one foot firmly planted in Project Blue Book sceptical territory, but was he not intrigued by Rutledge's subsequent exceptional deeper research when he became more open-minded about the reality of the phenomenon?

I do seem to recall Hynek being dismissive as you say. It wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't professional jealousy seeing how Rutledge apparently managed a real scientific study and Hynek seemed to have troubles--financial and otherwise--getting anything of substance off the ground.

Alternately, if Piedmont was military then Hynek may have had other "professional" reasons not to bring attention to it.

I also seem to remember Hynek helping fund and plan another interesting study with very compatible-type sightings, some of the details of which can be found in an excellent thread (one of my very favorites in the UFO forum) by member easynow. Enjoy!

The Yakima UFO Sightings

I'm off to revisit that thread now to refresh and check dates between Project Piedmont and the Yakima study. Seems like Yakima was after Rutledge's---but either way it could explain some of Hynek's frostiness.

Yakima, it should be noted, is in the same general area as Kenneth Arnold's sighting and the anomaly-ubiquitous Mt. Shasta too if memory serves. Very fascinating hot spot for generations.

ETA: After rereading, Rutledge's study is actually mentioned in the above thread and is probably where I first came across it. Like I said: Great thread---highly recommended! Some of the links appear to be dead but probably worth searching around for and reading.

I found one of the dead links in easynow's thread that I had remembered reading before and what had originally turned me on to Rutledge. Below is a portion that relates to some of the discussion here.

I tend to lean towards Constable's (and Sanderson and Arnold too) opinion as explanation for some of what are seen. To me it makes a lot of sense and there is data that would seem to lend it credence.

The only thing I would tend to disagree with as per Constable is that I see no reason why some of these critters weren't as cognizant and intelligent as ourselves. At least I think that was Constable's conclusion that they were the equivalent of our animal life and didn't possess the higher faculties of "I think therefore I am" consciousness.

One of the most unpopular UFO theories of all time was actually proposed by Kenneth Arnold himself and curiously can be found cited in the now-declassified 1949 government Project Sign UFO report. Naturalist Ivan T. Sanderson and writer Vincent Gaddis also were proponents of this unpopular idea.

But the major name associated with this seemingly bizarre theory is Trevor James Constable. It goes by several variant names but it is best known as the “Space Animal” or “Space Critter” theory. Kenneth Arnold wrote that UFOs are “groups and masses of living organisms that are as much a part of our atmosphere and space as the life we find in the oceans.” Sanderson wrote that it was “the most probable explanation” of UFOs. Constable, however, gave the most detailed explanation writing that they “are Amoeba Like Creatures existing in the plasma state. They are not solid, liquid, or gas. Rather, they exist in the fourth state of matter—plasma—as living heat-substance…” He went on to relate that they are in the infrared portion of the electromagnetic energy spectrum and thus, are typically invisible.

As a section in Ronald Story’s Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters relates, “The space animal theory has never captured the public imagination, and it has not been seriously considered by most UFO researchers.” Indeed. Rutledge’s research has also been largely ignored because there isn’t much in it that pointed to an extraterrestrial presence.

ETs, Plasmas, or a Deeply Hidden Military Presence? By Dr. Greg Little

If we consider for a moment that the entities who the occultists to include Rosicrucians (and contactees) have communed with are of this "realm" then maybe they've been on a more correct understanding all along.