'Troubled' Families Could Be Legally Banned From Spending Benefits On Alcohol And Tobacco

reply to post by jhn7537

"It could always happen, but it wont"

Famous last words of the foolish!

Never say never, mate. Crap happens to everyone and charity begins at home!

Good night, its been a pleasure.

Alcohol, tobacco, soda, gum, candies..............these are not life sustaining items.
They should not be allowed with any kind of card at all.
It floors me that you can buy Red Bull, but not toilet paper with benefit allocations.

Milk, beans, REAL foodstuffs, necessary medicines...yes!!!!

States need to implement regulations...tis obvious that this is not going to happen on the federal level.

Here.....ATS...is a grand place to grassroots this!!!!~


Namaste...........

Originally posted by andy06shake
reply to post by jhn7537

 

"It could always happen, but it wont"

Famous last words of the foolish!

Never say never, mate. Crap happens to everyone and charity begins at home!

Good night, its been a pleasure.

edit on 14-10-2012 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

Andy, I'm 27, I have a fantastic job with SOLID job security, I just got a great promotion recently and im literally kicking ass in my industry... Im not worried at all... Im offered jobs constantly (like weekly)... Ill be fine

reply to post by jhn7537


"Andy, I'm 27, I have a fantastic job with SOLID job security, I just got a great promotion recently and im literally kicking ass in my industry... Im not worried at all... Im offered jobs constantly (like weekly)... Ill be fine"

Cool, cool, im glad its working out. But think on this situations change not just for people but also for nations. Now riddle me this, Is America in the best of health right now? I see hard times ahead for all, and its not just me.

It 2:47am, kids are up in like 6 hours. I needs me sleep.

Continue later me thinks.

All the best!

Originally posted by lambros56

Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
Seems Legit.

I do not drink nor do drugs, I do roll my own tobacco once in awhile, but people on assistance should not be able to use those funds for alcohol or tobacco and should also be drug tested randomly. Welfare is a privilege not a GD right...

edit on 14-10-2012 by ConspiracyBuff because: (no reason given)

Have you ever been on benefits ?
I should imagine you believe everything your government and media tell you about people on benefits.

Do you feel the same about the criminal bankers and the criminal government and politicians ?
The same about every person that cheats the tax system ?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I do get tired of the knee-jerk responses sometimes when anyone dares to suggest that people abuse the system.

I have claimed social benefits actually, reluctantly. I also had the opportunity to claim more a couple of years ago when I had to leave my job through illness. But I chose to start my own business and struggle that way rather than claim disability.

I consider myself to be liberal, and I have relatives who are single mothers and claim benefits too. But they are all trying to start their own businesses now that mine has taken off reasonably well.

The fact is that people are not saying that ALL of those claiming benefits are scroungers. But lets not beat around the bush here or look at our society through rose tinted spectacles. There are millions of people in the UK who are perfectly capable of working, but they are too selfish and lazy to actually get their fat ass out of bed in the morning and take responsibility for their own existence!

Those are the people this kind of thing is directed at. And, as a tax paying member of the public who constantly has to struggle and can't afford to buy a roof over my head while others do nothing but breed and have it all given to them, I am justified in demanding that my taxes be spent wisely and fairly, given to those who genuinely need it and not those who are too lazy to take responsibility for their own lives!

And yes, I think the tax dodgers deserve a major kicking too! I am well aware of the money they owe and the shortfall we all have to pay on their behalf when they funnel money out of the country. I am completely aware that taxing the corporate scum would do away with all these debates in a week.

But that doesn't change the injustice of me having to pay my taxes for others to sit back and have everything thrown at them, while I am considered not a "priority". I am a priority when it comes to taxation, but not when it comes to providing affordable housing.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


OH COME ON.. you have got to be kidding.. YOU DO NOT think that will work do you . ALL they DO NOW is go buy something they can for who ever wants to trade it for what ever they NEED.. no one can MAKE anyone do what they do not want to .. or force them to do what they DO WANT THEM TO...

Surprisingly, I don't have a problem with them being banned from spending their benefits on such things. What's that old saw about beggars not being choosers? I'm all for public assistance if people need it, but seriously, you willingly give up a little autonomy when you are dependent on the government.

reply to post by Nicniven


ARE you NOT aware that they also give you CASH? along with the food part of the card.. all you need to do is swipe your card and choose CASH.. you get it .. that fast.. now go buy anything you want..

At the risk of surprising a person or two.... I agree with the heart of this. But, in practice...

As Beez said, in the first post, a blackmarket would form. How do we know this? In the US there already is one. I live in an area that has a lot of pockets of poverty and this area (at least) uses cards for Welfare and Food Stamps - the premise being that one cannot use these cards for certain things. But it doesn't work.

Most of the convenience stores around here have a piece of paper, at the register, filled with bar codes for a variety of things - like baby food, milk, etc... and the price point of each, written on that paper.

Want a pack of smokes? They ring up one of those fake items that just happens to cost about 15% more than a pack of smokes - if you ask them to.... and they'll swipe the food stamp card.

Want booze? Same thing.

Want cash? Then the rate goes up to 70%. The store will give $3.00 in cash for every $10.00 swiped on the card.

This is all nearly universal around here. Almost all franchised gas stations do it.. and everyone around here knows very well that it happens. We've all witnessed it.

Reporting doesn't do much good. Just as with the illegal, backroom casinos we have in the Atlanta area. No matter how high up you complain about these things - all you ever get in reply is "We'll look into it" and nothing more.

In the end? What difference does it make - other than to take even more money out of the pockets of the poor and to make them more of a target for opportunistic businesses?

~Heff

I remember years and years ago people use to get milk tokens which were sent through the post and you was entitled to if you had a child under a certain age. not sure if they still do them.

People use to use them to buy smokes and booze etc, but the shops that allowed it always made sure your purchase was worth less than the milk token.

See it is not just the unemployed scamming the system.

Many ''Evil" Indigenous Australians are under this system.

John Howard Demonized an entire race, to bring in this Cashless System.

With a Mass Media Propaganda Campaign, then PM Howard used the Problem, Reaction, Solution plan to acheive his ideals.

PROBLEM : On behalf of the Australian Government the MSM waged a war against Aboriginal Australia, labelling them as Drunks, Drug Addicts and Child Molesterers.

NorthernTerritory National Emergency Response



REACTION : Public Outcry - OMG something must be done to "Save" the children.



SOLUTION : Send in the Military to end the "Alledged" child abuse. Cut out the cash system and replace it with a Basics Card. Put up Demonizing Propaganda everywhere to justify this action.







Even those remote Indigenous Australians who do full time work are given a "Basics Card" and can only spend THEIR wages where the Government tells them.

While I agree with Interventions that benifit the children, I am appalled that an entire race would be discriminated against and labeled this way. The Anglo Australians are no angels - drugs, alcoholism and child prostitution is a bigger problem in the cities, yet recieves no attention.

If you need to test an unpopular system, you demonize a small minority to get public support - Works all the Time.

Originally posted by hollwd
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

OH COME ON.. you have got to be kidding.. YOU DO NOT think that will work do you . ALL they DO NOW is go buy something they can for who ever wants to trade it for what ever they NEED.. no one can MAKE anyone do what they do not want to .. or force them to do what they DO WANT THEM TO...

Then if thats the case, they don't deserve to collect any money.. If you don't follow the rules, you are immediately removed from the program... And if you're caught once, it all ends... No More HANDOUTS

All that the "food" subsidy does is subsidize their cash for bad things anyway.

I believe "State Stores" should had out a good amount of basic sustenance to anyone willing to go to the most basic warehouse style distribution point, and lug their staples home. Economy of scale, plus a lot of good food goes to waste, being a little wilted or discoloured....totally edible though.

These people who have food stamps buy the most expensive pre-packed junk food available. I see them at grocery stores...all crap stuffed 1ft about the top of the cart. I look down and I'm just getting a few bucks worth of basic food, on the best budget that is cost-effective for me. wtf should some slob eat expensive crap for free and I have to pick from what I can afford?

It's an insult, really.

I cant buy smokes and booze for myself but my taxes can buy it for others.

Originally posted by MrWendal
This whole idea is a joke.

First of all- I am now, for the very first time in my life, collecting benefits. I lost my job on August 28th when I showed up to work just in time to find a locksmith changing the locks on the doors and my manager outside informing us as we showed up for work that we all no longer have jobs and the business was closing. I spent 4 years at this job, working 40 + hours a week.

Anyone want to guess how much I get in my benefits?

$120 per week or $480 per month.

It is not even enough to cover my rent (which is $500 per month), and I have not included the electric bill, the phone bill or the bill for my internet. Let us not make any mistake about this, I need all these utilities in order to get a job. I can not even go into a fast food place and get an application for work, it is all done online. Plus in order to continue receiving my benefits I am required to log into the unemployment office website and go through their online listing for potential jobs in addition to making 3 work contacts per week. Should I find a job, I will be contacted by phone.

I can not afford to get a drink even if I wanted one.

Also take into account, people do not receive checks for benefits anymore. It is given to you on a debit card. So any purchase I make is already known and tracked- unless I use an ATM and take cash..... for a "small fee" of course which is paid to Chase bank.

So this idea that people who are collecting benefits are wasting the money on drugs, alcohol and tobacco in my opinion is absolutely absurd. Does it happen? I am sure it does from time to time, but I would bet my left arm it is not as widespread as Politicians are leading people to believe. People who collect benefits are still people. We need to eat, we have responsibilities, we have mouths to feed and people who depend on us and bills that need to be paid. I WISH I could afford to buy some alcohol, but that would mean I wouldn't eat for the week- not that I would be missing much from my current Ramen Noodle diet or the occasional Spam sandwich.

According to the GOP we have a food stamp President. It is so easy to get food stamps today blah blah blah... guess what? I was denied food stamps even though my benefits do not cover the rent.

But let us take this a step further. Fact is unemployment benefits is an insurance. It was already paid for by my employer through State and Local taxes which then goes into a fund. Of course this is taken into account when your employer decides how much you will be paid for your services. So in a manner of speaking- as a worker, you earned it. So who is the State to decide how I spend MY money to begin with?

Dealing with the issues I deal with today has given me a whole new perspective on people who receive "hand outs' from the Government. I barely sleep anymore. I scour the internet looking for work. I apply for any and every job I can get. I apply for jobs I know full well I can't get just in case I get lucky. I have applied for jobs at Subway and McDonald's.

The only job I have been able to find is a crappy part time job for minimum wage- and it is in a Halloween store which will close November first. As a matter of fact, this job pays on a debit card, I dont even get a paycheck and I just received my pay for the two weeks I have been working this job. Wanna guess how much that was? $84.00.

So let's do some math...

Rent $500 per month
Electric $105 per month
Phone $80 per month
internet $69 per month
total: $754 per month

Current income?

Benefits $480 per month
Part time job $168 per month
total: $648 per month.

And we have not even accounted for food or gasoline to get to work. Of course none of it will matter soon enough anyway when I end up in jail for not being able to pay my child support.

Alcohol, Tobacco, Drugs, Clothing? Yeah I wish!

I'm sorry to hear about your situation

I know it won't make much difference but my opinion was being expressed in the context of the UK and not the USA, having never been to America, I don't know what it is like over there but hopefully you get some full time work to see you through.

In the UK, there are many, many many people who leave school, have children and literally live off the tax payer and bring up 4-5 kids as well. They never do a day's work in their lives.

Sadly, it is the hard workers who lose their jobs, and those who truly needs the help of the system that often go without.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Same here in the US. Theres even a parody song about the situation. kinda like your chavs (minus the Burberry)

All those who receive benefits should be stopped from WASTING it on drink, smoke and gambling.

I don't want my tax-payer dollars pissed away on these lowbrow vices. If they want to throw money away on this crap, they can work for it. When they get liver failure or lung cancer or end up destitute, does the tax-payer play benefactor to the ensuing expenses then too?

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Troubled families living on benefits will be legally barred from spending welfare money on alcohol and tobacco, under plans being drawn up in Whitehall.

Iain Duncan Smith has asked his officials to see if so-called ‘problem’ families should receive their welfare payments on smart cards, rather than in cash.

The cards would only be able to pay for “priority” items such as food, housing, clothing, education and health care.

The Work and Pensions secretary wants to stop parents who are alcoholics or who are on drugs from using welfare payments to fuel their addictions.

At the moment, the law does not stipulate how benefits are spent. So the law would have to be changed to make these changes.

On the one hand, I think there is some merit to stopping alcoholics spending their benefits on alcohol when children might be involved and are not being fed properly for example.

I've heard many stories of benefits being spent on drugs and other things whilst the kids are left to fend for themselves.

In that context, introducing smart cards that can only be spent on food,clothing etc sounds like a good idea.

At the same time, this would be one step for the government in taking away people's right to decide how they spend their money. Once one step is taken, even if that first step has good meaning, how many more steps are taken before they are running and changing other laws to follow suit etc.

What do people think?

A welfare merry-go-round created to trap countless generations into poverty, poor education, crime etc...

I don't want the money I pay in tax being spent on S&M parlours, hookers and coc aine...deal, ministers?!
...thought not...

A99

the system is easy to implement, the laws are easy to create....
enforcing them is another matter.....

there are always ways to circumvent the laws....

have they prosecuted anyone from barcleys or the other big banks for their manipulation of libor yet???

what about the fraud they had to commit to evict homeowners from their homes???

seems to be the too big to fails have ripped the taxpayers and consumers off way more than these poor folks have with their beer and smokes, don't ya think??

just why is it that if I decide not to pay my mortgage and give the $100,000 home back to the bank I am being irresponsible, but when the businessmen opted opt of multi-million dollar real estate deals and stiffed the banks with the bad loans, it was "strategic"???

Take all benefits off these scum, whatever happened to survival of the fittest. I claimed benefits last year for 4 months, esa to be exact, and returned to work whilst still on chemotherapy. I am sick an tired of people complaining about their unemployment benefits not being enough. If all you are is unemployed you are what is wrong with the UK not the Tories and you need to get off your lazy backside and do something.