'Troubled' Families Could Be Legally Banned From Spending Benefits On Alcohol And Tobacco

Originally posted by jimmiec
Our government wants to be a business anyway. Evidence GM. Let the government create a business in every town for them to work, with childcare on site. Everybody can do something. Pride is a very powerful thing. I bet they would find a job that pays more pretty quick once that happened. Hey let them build solar panels!

I always thought that a somewhat "fix" is to create a self contained system. One of the biggest problems with welfare is people get stuck in a loop that they cannot get out of. When they have a few kids they cannot afford the daycare too and so the welfare (which still sucks big time) pays more over all.

So if some were trained and earned their welfare check, plus extra, as daycare workers to actually free up others so they can attend a trade school to learn a skill(s). Then once they get a job they can still use the day care as long as they make under a set amount...(an amount that once reached is enough to offset dare care cost)

I know there is a lot of holes in this, but I think some kind of self-contained system is a good approach. Some stipulations... Once they are in the system any further children cannot be added, if they do not progress in the system they are removed. I want to help ALL, but I'm kind of cold hearted when it comes to those that are capable, but chose not to be.

reply to post by MrWendal


I think it's important to note that the UK and US are different.

For instance, in the UK, people receive housing benefit along with unemployment. Parents also receive tax credits (basically more money for breeding).

I don't think the system in the US is as bad, or as open to abuse, as it is in the UK.

If you've never gotten an EBT card in your life, do me a favor: sit down and shut the hell up!

It's a common practice of the right wing in the U.S to demonize people for getting a bit of help to get by.

Where are the examples of people who use their benefits in an illicit manner?

I'd like to see them because most people I know use their food stamps for FOOD! Yes, hard to believe, isn't it? When I was unemployed once, I bought food and you know what? I paid society back when I found my current job.

Now stop harping on the less fortunate and turn your attention to those pulling your strings and getting you riled up over others!

This will lead to those addicts committing more CRIME. It may even lead to those who would not usually consider crime to turn to it.
In the UK the government just changed the law concerning burglaries. A homeowner can now use any means necessary to defend themselves and their families from burglars.

THEY SAW THIS COMING !! yet they will still go ahead with it.

I think I agree.

How many thousands of kids are denied a half decent diet / sent to school without breakfast (etc) because their parent(s) insist on smoking and drinking away the benefit given for the "family"?

Regards

So stopping a drinkers access instantly to drink could kill him/her. All this will do is rocket the crime rates with people committing crime to feed their habbits/addictions. Yet another proper poor idea from the 'out of touch party'. Thank god they will be gone at the next election, but not before doing as much damage as possible to break this great country beyond repair so Labour get the blame and will be voted out again next time, smart move in a sick kind of way.

Years ago in Oregon, what I remember of the welfare system is that a person would receive actual food stamps. They could only be used to purchase "food" at a grocery store and the person buying had to present ID at the checkout stand. Not all grocery stores accepted FS so it was posted at the front door whether they did or not. They did not all have to. If someone was on welfare, they might also get a reduction in or full payment of their rent. This money went directly to the landlord and the tenant/recipient was to pony up the balance if any. Of course there was fraud, but a LOT less and it was a lot more effort on the recipient’s part. The cash allowance if any was small or pretty non existent. The card has enabled anonymity and allowed for a lot more abuse because anyone can use someone else's card, they just need the code. Withdrawing funds in casinos and ATMs is a very common practice.

articles.latimes.com...

$69 million in California welfare money drawn out of state

Las Vegas tops the list with $11.8 million spent at casinos or taken from ATMs, but transactions in Hawaii, Miami, Guam and elsewhere also raise questions. Officials say budget cuts hinder investigations.

Reporting from Sacramento — More than $69 million in California welfare money, meant to help the needy pay their rent and clothe their children, has been spent or withdrawn outside the state in recent years, including millions in Las Vegas, hundreds of thousands in Hawaii and thousands on cruise ships sailing from Miami.

October 04, 2010|By Jack Dolan, Los Angeles Times

And this is JUST CALIFORNIA!

www.nbc-2.com...

Welfare money spent at 'Casino Cafes'
Posted: Nov 16, 2011 4:37 PM CST Updated: Nov 17, 2011 7:55 AM CST

An NBC2 investigation uncovers money meant to feed and clothe needy children, is instead spent on games at internet cafes. Now, one lawmaker wants them shut down. NBC2 Investigator Andy Pierrotti tracks your tax dollars.

Three to four days a week, you'll find Hank Silvia in front of a Cape Coral computer screen hoping to win big. "When you get the powerball, it's bong!" said Silvia while playing at the cyber internet sweepstakes. To play, he buys long distance phone cards that give him credits to bet on games that can result in cash payouts. State Representative Scott Plakon not only considers it gambling, he's pushing legislation to make the operations illegal.

"The notion that they operate untaxed, unregulated in strip malls right next door to the Publix or the drycleaners, creates I think a menacing situation," Plakon said at his Longwood office.

Digging through tens of thousands of transactions, the NBC2 Investigators found $7,120 public assistance dollars withdrawn at ATMs inside internet casino cafés across the state.

The biggest withdraws included Jacksonvile, $2,920; Vero Beach, $1,020 and Madison $500.

kstp.com...
Beginning in November 2010, our stories found a benefits bonanza that might leave you shaking your head: cigarettes, alcohol, lottery tickets - even tattoos - can be bought with your money. We found welfare cash can be used for all sorts of things never intended, from the Twin Cities to the U-S Virgin Islands. And it's all legal. After our reports, lawmakers demanded action and the state began to reform the system.

In February 2011, we showed how welfare cash - taxpayer money - could be withdrawn at ATMs inside some casinos and bingo halls and then gambled away.

In May 2011, our investigation found millions of dollars are being spent on childcare that doesn't exist, and for families and providers that don't qualify. At the same time, thousands of families are placed on a waiting list for childcare, told there isn't enough money left to help them.

It would be nice to think that welfare fraud is a rare occurence. The facts speak for themselves. This is only the a few examples in a few states. The amount of welfare fraud is so massive, I think many people don't want to see the truth.

Originally posted by chaztekno
So stopping a drinkers access instantly to drink could kill him/her. All this will do is rocket the crime rates with people committing crime to feed their habbits/addictions. Yet another proper poor idea from the 'out of touch party'. Thank god they will be gone at the next election, but not before doing as much damage as possible to break this great country beyond repair so Labour get the blame and will be voted out again next time, smart move in a sick kind of way.

edit on 14-10-2012 by chaztekno because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-10-2012 by chaztekno because: (no reason given)

I know a guy who drank about a 12 pack a day. When he had a heart attack, they prescribed beer for him in the hospital because it would be too stressful for him to stop drinking completely right after the heart attack. That was the first time I had EVER seen a hospital do that, it was quite strange.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Having 1st hand knowledge and having grown up with it i have a real understanding. Im from a fully functioning family though and never went without, food in the cupboards, bills paid. Who has the right to say whats right and wrong anyway, everyman has his poison its just how they deal with it. Taking money away from the poorest elements of society is a recipe for disaster and will be one of the worst mistakes they could make, theres nothing worse than a desperate addict.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
reply to post by MrWendal

 

I think it's important to note that the UK and US are different.

For instance, in the UK, people receive housing benefit along with unemployment. Parents also receive tax credits (basically more money for breeding).

I don't think the system in the US is as bad, or as open to abuse, as it is in the UK.

The us has "Housing" but it is in the form of rent control and low cost projects, some of which are free.
They also have "earned income" credit which is basically a rebate to families that earn below the national average for each child they have.

They also have healthcare.

It's only different in details. On the whole, it's the same thing.

I think the abuse of the system is rampant and will always be so as long as you can get a free ride for a vote.

I would guesstimate that a full half of all recipients are abusing the system in one way or another. They are victims but they don't see it that way. If they applied themselves instead of sitting around having babies so that their check gets bigger they could have a great life. I see the abuse almost daily. Free housing/food/money and they brag publicly that they get 4k a month plus housing, then they plan on more kids to bump that up. I personally know a girl that has 5 kids with 3 different fathers,unmarried. They got a free trip to Disney World/free airline travel/motel and spending money. Reform is needed but those that truly need help should get help. How anyone can sit on their butts doing nothing is beyond me.

Originally posted by jimmiec
I would guesstimate that a full half of all recipients are abusing the system in one way or another. They are victims but they don't see it that way. If they applied themselves instead of sitting around having babies so that their check gets bigger they could have a great life. I see the abuse almost daily. Free housing/food/money and they brag publicly that they get 4k a month plus housing, then they plan on more kids to bump that up. I personally know a girl that has 5 kids with 3 different fathers,unmarried. They got a free trip to Disney World/free airline travel/motel and spending money. Reform is needed but those that truly need help should get help. How anyone can sit on their butts doing nothing is beyond me.

A full half are abusing the system?
I`m sorry but that is just plain crazy !

4k a month ?
You`ve got to show some proof of this.

I'll give another example of fraud of public assistance. Public assistance by the way covers a broad range of "help". Medical, housing, food and, well… cash. This was years ago (in the 80's or early 90s's), someone I know who had been on public assistance for all of her adult life, had two children and had her tubes tied (at the taxpayers expense). Approximately 8 years later, still on public assistance but married to an illegal alien, she wanted to have another child. She went through the proper channels and was approved for a tubaligation reversal through the public medical assistance program. After conferring with the doctors and weighing the odds for a positive result, she decided not to follow through with the procedure. The fact that tax dollars would pay for this really got my goat.

I know of a married couple, recently unemployed and on public medical care with a 5 y/o daughter, have been wanting another child but have been having difficulty. The public health system is paying for their fertility treatments. EVEN though it is stated in the plan of "covered" and "not coverd", it is in the "not covered" categaory. This also gets my goat.


ETA: I'm still trying to find out (without being obviously nosey) from the gal exactly how this works.

These poor sods have nothing to begin with, nothing to look forward too and probably sub 100 IQs. Now the politicians(Scum that they are) want to stop them from smoking and drinking, essentially remove the only pleasure that they have in society! I would love for the half wit that came up with this idea to spend just a week in there shoes. Leave them alone and tax the rich twats that sit back and live off everyone else's hard graft!

Seems Legit.

I do not drink nor do drugs, I do roll my own tobacco once in awhile, but people on assistance should not be able to use those funds for alcohol or tobacco and should also be drug tested randomly. Welfare is a privilege not a GD right...

Originally posted by Sostratus

At the same time, this would be one step for the government in taking away people's right to decide how they spend their money.

It's not their money and even though I don't mind my money helping the less fortunate, I do not want my money being spent on alcohol & tobacco for the less fortunate.

Thats like giving your kid an allowance and telling them what they can and cant buy... So what if they are less fortunate, that actually gives them more of a reason to drink than the more fortunate... Plus, everybody saying "its my money in taxes" Well....You get it back......

reply to post by ConspiracyBuff


"I do not drink nor do drugs,"

Try it you may find it rather enjoyable!

"I do roll my own tobacco once in awhile, but people on assistance should not be able to use those funds for alcohol or tobacco and should also be drug tested randomly. Welfare is a privilege not a GD right"

Problem with your logic is that those people were born into a welfare state, they had no hand in its creation. How very NWO of you!

Remember this working 2/3s of you life on a minimum wage only to be told near the end, sorry your to old now. Kindly get lost and die soon on this minimum pension we so graciously allow you to enjoy is just as bad. I would go as far as to say its insane and contrary to human nature!

They should give those smart cards directly to the kids themselves so they can bypass the addictions of their parents.

reply to post by Sostratus


"It's not their money and even though I don't mind my money helping the less fortunate, I do not want my money being spent on alcohol & tobacco for the less fortunate."

Its not your money mate its "There" money im afraid. That is unless you are on the bill! LoL

Tell me something do you know what money actually is? Not what is does, but what it is? I will give you a hint, in this instance wikipedia is not your friend!