'Troubled' Families Could Be Legally Banned From Spending Benefits On Alcohol And Tobacco

As per usual Free born, you have hit the problem bang square on the head.
When are we brits/world. going to wake up and smell the coffee. This bs has got to be sorted and I dont mean sorted by caMORON and his elitest gang of banksters/masons/friends. These types of people, have caused all our present problems. They dont want to cure it, they enjoy their life styles to much. Stamping on every one and looking down on us all, as if we are some kind of skivy.

Which is why I shall go to that operation jubilee thing. Not that I am expecting any great changes. Theres not going to be a revolution. We have been dumbed down for so long that we think, this is normal life and is how it should be. Well I am sick to the back teeth of all this bs. So if I go there and at least get it off my chest, hopefully I will feel a bit better.

Personally I think the only way we are going to defeat them, is for every one to just stop working. Bring the whole thing to a halt. Dont go to work unless its in the emergency servises ect. What are they going to do? Set the troops onto us? Look at Spain the people went to their govt and demanded that they all resign. They were attacked by the police. Police who really should be on the peoples side. That may happen in London, on this march. The `plebs` cant be standing up and telling the landed gentry types were to get off.

The economy colapsed in 08 and since then we have been printing money out of thin air. Money created out of thin air, which our kids and their kids, will be hounded for till their dying days.
Enough is enough. Its about time something was done about this. Done by us the people and not by the gang in power.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by andy06shake

 

And perhaps a cashless society where every transaction made can be monitored and recorded.....and used against you.

I imagine thats the plan! I think IBM started it working for the Nazis durring WW2. They started categorising all the ethnic minorities if memory serves. Then the SS and Gestapo shipped them of to there final destinations(RIP Holocaust victims). Obviously nowhere near the level of sophistication employed by todays society but the technology was not present at the time.

reply to post by Stevie777


"I'm out of here...I feel dirty being in the same room as this Viper."

Come back Stevie777. Dont be intimidated by Stumason's(The Grass!!!)Tory rhetoric and obvious agenda! There and his time will come!

Remember what goes around comes around!

The personal insults directed towards a well respected member of ATS are really beginning to piss me off.

He has been very open and honest with his reasoning and his actions appear to have been driven through strength of conviction rather than malice, greed or self-preservation as is generally the case with 'grasses'.

Whether I or anyone agree's with those actions is irrelevant, he deserves respect for having the courage to be true to his own values, something so few of us are.

And to be perfectly frank it's got sod all to do with any of us anyway.

I for one will continue to offer my respect to stu and am pleased to consider him a friend.

Oh, and a genuinely well intentioned piece of advice - consider the site T&C.

reply to post by Freeborn


Cheers for the support chap, but it's water off a ducks back

I'm sure once emotions have calmed down and people apply some rational thought, in the cold light of day what I did was the right thing for all concerned.

I could elaborate into great detail what led to that situation happening which might make people rethink what they have said, but I do not feel it is either pertinent to the thread or anyone's business to dish out so much detail ..

Certainly, my sister holds no ill will, which is the main thing.

I live in Canada, and so while this doesn't directly effect me, I am bothered by it. Let me explain.

I am currently on welfare, and receive most of my money this way. I work whatever odd jobs I can get, but finding a long term job is difficult. What I am saying is, I am fully willing to support myself, but yes, I rely on government assistance. Were it only myself, I wouldn't rely on public money, but I have 3 children and a wife to take care of, and my pride takes a backseat when it comes to them eating and having a roof over their heads.

Now, sometimes, I do have a few extra dollars. I never buy anything before bills are paid and there is food in our cupboards. When this happens, when my family is provided with everything they need, I have a few extra dollars for whatever may arise, I feel that I am free to do what I will with any leftover. Sometimes, I do like to have a drink or two. Or a pack of smokes.

To say that this can never happen, that all of that money( a decent chunk of which, in my case, I have legitimately earned,) HAS to go towards food, bills and rent, is to say that everyone on assistance(which here at least is done by how many people you have, regardless of where you live or what your rent is,) has the exact same expenses and the amount you are given is exactly correct, and also that any money you earn on your own on top of that, is for them to decide what you can spend it on.

Remember, the UK is a very different place to the US, with a different culture and a different set of problems. There are lots of similarities, but for a start the British are generally more open towards welfare and so-called progressive social policy than the Americans. I think that we in the UK are just more accepting by nature, but we value equality and fairness as much as the next person.

The layabout stereotype is obviously overused, but there is a problem that is deeply engrained in our society. A lot of people I've seen whilst unemployed simply seem to lack the ability to converse politely with another person, or go through what is a long and over-complicated process without resorting to threats and anger.

I don't think transferring jobs from machines back to people will do us any favours in the long run either. Yeah, it might provide a job and some income to small minority, but it will set us back as a species. Sometimes the greatest good for the greatest number needs to be considered. There is of course a lack of jobs, and the jobseeker work programme and government-funded apprenticeship schemes are a joke.

These so-called smart cards are a waste of time, as others have already said, because trading and a barter system would easily work their way around any electronic bans on the prohibited items. Also, if a person wants to blow their benefit on drink, drugs and fags then they should be allowed to do so, but they should not expect any special help because of it. Of course, real dependence and children and issues that need to be looked at slightly differently.

As for the drug addiction side of the issue, people paying for another person's dependence and so on, I have one word: legalisation. If drugs were legalised and users not punished but rather helped, then a massive drain on the economy would be removed. If the market was opened up for business then vast amounts of money could be raised through tax revenue, money that could go towards helping those with drug problems (see the CLEAR party website for more info). Those who still want to go through the underground would probably still be able do so, as they can for cigarettes and alcohol now, but the option would be there to buy safe, labelled and regulated products. With less stigma involved those with real dependence would not feel afraid to seek help, and more resources would be available for other health and crime issues across the board.

Speaking as someone who has recently claimed jobseekers benefit, the system is most certainly broken. There is a vast amount of waste, with money spent on pointless workshops (I was sent on a three-day course to help me write a CV and fill in applications when I had already been applying for jobs for weeks beforehand) and directed towards people who, to be honest, don't need the help. Even the staff involved are despairing of the government's policies. I was very thankful of what I was given in terms of aid, and would be happy to do my bit and pay back into the system when I'm earning. I don't expect benefits as a right, but I think most of us in the UK support the social safety net as part of a caring society in a troubled world.

Jobseekers benefit is nothing in comparison to Trident, bank bailouts, tax evasion and economic degradation on the whole, but seems to get a lot more ridicule than its fair share. Coming from a part of England that has some of the worst records on employment, drug use and living standards, I can safely say that yes there needs to be change, but the governing-elite have no understanding of the issue and are going about it the wrong way. Merry Old England is in for a rough time, but so are the politicians if things don't start looking up pretty damn quickly for our country. The people are at breaking point.

So that's what I think.

Is Not taxpayer money being spent to put one's supposed representatives in office?
Now they use some of those funds to spend on ciggies, beer, liquor.
Should they be held to a different maxim/standard?
No, of course not as "What's good for the gander is good for the Goose".

How could so many lose sight of this prevalent theme?
The double standard is rarely mentioned let alone seen for what it is.
How many examples can you think of?
Come to think about it, there are just too many to list here though 'benefits' is a keyword for thought.

Back in the days of shires/guildes/communities where self sufficiency within the 'community' was 'known' and appreciated for what it was, there was no need for government 'support'. Folks in the village/community got along fine as is 'natural' though when govt. support networks were set up as families/vilages were divided and conquered or 'estranged' from one another the people became as subjects of the state, dependent on the 'state' and divided from one another. This is unnatural and therefor will naturally bring about an unnatural consequence by design.

Whether one believes in a Creator or not, you have to agree that it takes a village/family to raise a child and/or correct an adult before issues arrive. Would you prefer a complete stranger, a judge, possibly a corrupted/compromised one at that, without a jury decide your fate? This is where the towers that be prefer to place you; under their thumb. Is this where you prefer to be? You have a choice. Only returning to the self-sufficient community with guildes of specialties/talents will save mankind from here forward.

One will find much more free time in their newfound freedom to be a master of one's own time rather than be as a subject unto a system, working meaningless jobs for dole-ars and for the benefit of 'another' with no accountability than unto itself. Various denominations of gold/silver to settle uneven barters is surely preferrable to a fiat digital currency to be created at will as well as debited/credited from the subjects accounts at the whim of your newfound? master.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
At the same time, this would be one step for the government in taking away people's right to decide how they spend their money.

You lost me with this sentence. Who's money are they spending? Their own that they earned or mine and anyone elses that works hard every day for it?

First, I am not against helping families in need with grants (free money and food). However, if they decide to take other people's money then they should have it monitored on what they spend it on. Too many times I see these people driving around in brand new Cadillac Escalades and wearing the top of the line clothing (which I can't afford and I bust my rear every day to feed my family). So, should their spending be monitored and prevented on some items. Hell yeah. They shouldn't spend it on habitual items like cigarettes and alcohol. Period.

Originally posted by Bluemoonsine
Is Not taxpayer money being spent to put one's supposed representatives in office?
Now they use some of those funds to spend on ciggies, beer, liquor.
Should they be held to a different maxim/standard?
No, of course not as "What's good for the gander is good for the Goose".

How could so many lose sight of this prevalent theme?
The double standard is rarely mentioned let alone seen for what it is.
How many examples can you think of?
Come to think about it, there are just too many to list here though 'benefits' is a keyword for thought.

edit on 16-10-2012 by Bluemoonsine because: (no reason given)

Completely a DIFFERENT situation. Though many would argue this (myself included on many counts) our supposed representatives WORK for their tax payer money. They have a job that they went out and worked for and received. They get paid for it. Those that do NOT go out and get work sit back and receive the hard workers of this nations money for FREE.

Now, that is not saying all of those that receive help are choosing to not get work. I am very aware of our situation in this nation right now. What I am saying is that there are MANY of them (a majority from my own experience and I have known a lot of people in the system since it is where my mother was for most of my young life) are abusing the system. They have live in 'boyfriends' (not married so they can keep getting the 2nd income from the state) and/or choose not to get work because it is easier to get paid to do nothing.

I hope you understand the major difference from your statement and those collecting from the system.

reply to post by Vilkata


I can almost agree with you except for the fact that you stated you can earn some extra money outside of this with odd jobs. Use that money for the booze and smokes. I understand that there are so many in a similar situation as you. They try to work but simply can't because of this economy. However, the system should not support the purchase of items that cannot contribute to a persons well being. Food does (even the bad food has some nutrional value though the side effects aren't the greatest) but you will never convince me that cigarettes do or even alcohol for the most part. Alcohol alters the mindset so it should definitely be out of the question.

reply to post by dariousg


Yes, understood, the system is grossly abused and mismanaged and intentionally so to make at least half the 'people' dependent on the system so it may be perpetuated for the end purpose of making the masses beholden and dependent on the 'State' for sustenance/survival while at the same bankrupting it exponentially to bring in a one-world digital currency instituting complete control, by destroying the so called fiat sovereign currencies (central bank run/created) by indebting it with these liabilities as well as with the endless wars and various black projects.....that are also funded with rogue CIA drug running ops.

Off topic, though related to the comment above; were you aware that some towns/villages around the world heavily involved in the drug trade do not even use currencies? Rather, they use, for example, unprocessed coc aine as payment for goods to survive. It's weighed in scales at the local stores/markets and/or kept in deposit boxes at banks as a store of value. This is done to encourage/perpetuate the drug trade in these towns/villages as well as put down any resistance or alternative currency substitute for the operations. Armed bandits with machine guns patrol the towns/villages to maintain 'order' while instilling fear of reprisal for any resistance. A simple search with the right keywords on one search engine or another will show one some examples.

As for drugs, natural drugs, unprocessed by man are not addictive, not bad for you (if used in moderation) and 'free' if allowed to be grown/harvested for personal use and have many health benefits and can aid in opening one's third eye if used correctly as they have been used for thousands of years around the world. The Creator made the best drugs though expects one to use them in moderation, I would imagine. I have never known one to go 'crazy' on a natural drug though some have been tainted/spiked which is more the reason to go natural and grow it oneself since one knows NOT what they are buying from a third party. For example some pot is laced with coc aine to make it addictive for the seller's benefit/profit and the buyers addiction and mental/physical health demise. It is a violation of one's natural rights and bill of rights to make any 'NATURAL' drug (ie, natural grown marijuana, mushrooms, peyote, coca leaf) 'illegal'/unlawful. Processed drugs on the other hand is a different story.

It was/Is the corporate lobbyists and govts. around the world that have imposed addictive, expensive and poisonous man-made drugs for profit/greed as well as to control, dumb-down and incapacitate the human 'useless eaters' as they have become less useful as they have become poisoned/toxified by various agents such as public water supply ( toxic levels of flouride, arcenic, chlorine, calcium, cyanobacterium and even seditative hormones to make one more 'docile'), toxic vaccine/injections, toxins/chemicals in processed man-made foods, toxic chem-trails. There is a war against humanity by those who believe they 'own' you and your property, whether you hold title/deed or not.

Brief history of Marijuana/Cannibus.

Extended version; documentary

Brief history of coca 'leaf', unprocessed.

Natural Peyote.

History of Majic Mushrooms.

In most beer today, if tested, one will find artificial toxins have been added that do harm to one's mind/body, by design unfortunately. Same with Sulfites in most wine that is not 'organic'.

Man-made processed cigarettes (tobacco and paper) have chemicals added that are not only toxic for the mind/body but also is designed to keep them burning $o one may go through a pack quicker. Natural tobacco will go out it's own if place in the ashtray. Processed cigarettes never go out; less a couple varieties on the market of which are mostly unknown.

I have found through personal experiences around the world that it is the man-made addictive drugs, including alcohol that causes violence/depression and bad mental/physical health, Not the natural drugs from the Creator! Again, Moderation in all things and complemented with education on the use of nature's medicine and avenues of insight.

reply to post by eletheia


Wheres mine then???

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Yes its true that there are people out there with massive families who just claim benefits (how many of them are immigrants) BUT to me your post makes it sound like its these people who have got us in this situation.........try looking at the bankers who have and still are making fortunes despite losing all our money!

reply to post by Freeborn


Pre-f'in-cisely!

reply to post by TheFlash


The Governments money is money WE give them in taxes! Swings and roundabouts!

What?
No star fa-that?
lOl

Wow, where am I?
Who are 'you'?
Get Real folks.
Truth works.

Joe Rogan gets it, (caution, pottymouth follows).
So expressive.
I like it.
U?

reply to post by souljacker






If you have a dependency on alchol, get confirmation from your Doctor and take it to

the 'benefits' dept...i believe thats how it works

Not far from where my daughter lives are half a dozen houses (newly built) and i believe

the term for them is 'houses of multiple occupation' and the occupant's of said houses

spend the day going to and from the local 'off licence!

Originally posted by eletheia
reply to post by souljacker

 

If you have a dependency on alchol, get confirmation from your Doctor and take it to

the 'benefits' dept...i believe thats how it works

Not far from where my daughter lives are half a dozen houses (newly built) and i believe

the term for them is 'houses of multiple occupation' and the occupant's of said houses

spend the day going to and from the local 'off licence!

I dont think they do this any longer. 100,000s of people have not that long ago be kicked of the sick.
To be quite fank due to the current goverments Nazi stealth eugenics programs that "They" obviously have in place. I know it sounds nuts, but that is what it amounts to.

Also Alcoholism is a disease and mental issue. Why should we not as a modern society with a welfare state in place care for these poor sad individuals. IMHO we should continue to house and financially support sick people regardless of their ailments!

Tax the rich twats, makes sense since they are the ones with the cash in the first place!

reply to post by andy06shake





If thats the case they need treatment and not collusion to keep up their addiction. Smokers

get help to stop smoking getting perscriptions for nicotine patches etc? Drug addicts get

substitutes and counselling? So why does the alcholic get just what they need to fuel their

habit?


In the long term health issues regarding the liver etc.make it an increasing burden and cost

to the NHS. Surely a very short sighted solution ?