Human Space Exploration: Broken Dreams or Secret Schemes?

reply to post by mirageman


S&F. A very intriguing and well presented thread that leaves me with more questions than answers. I do not know the mystery or answer to the space race but I have a feeling some part of the truth is about to be revealed. Call it a premonition but it feels as if we have always been in a need to know position and that time is fast approaching. I am and always have been despondent and suffer depression where I have suicidal thoughts more than a few times a year. The only thing that keeps me going is knowing we are on the cusp of figuring out what it is all about and that gives me a curiosity to know.

And if I am just kidding myself?
Oh well, we all have our methods of handling this crazy life and choosing to get up again tomorrow.

As for space exploration and advanced aircraft there's so many pieces to the puzzle hard to know for sure, I've heard a good theory that u.s. government loved people believing about aliens and flying saucers, simple things like Roswell incident where they released news-paper information that a "ufo" was down or recovered (something to that nature) then they change there mind to a weather balloon or what ever on purpose Not a mistake or fumble of words they wanted to make it look like they were trying to cover something up (give me chance to explain). Reason why was, there's been so much sightings of advanced aircraft from people with strong backgrounds to know what there takings about (pilots both military and civilian, radar control personnel etc.) that if public didn't believe these were alien controlled vehicles than than public would demand information about them, where as if public believes these are alien vehicles there's no one to hold accountable. In the mean time secret departments of civilian and government personnel, have had ability to advance technology's that thanks to nearly unlimited funds, ability to search and draw brightest minds around world and hands so deeply into surveillance that any breakthroughs that general public may come up with they have ability to take control of, has advanced there projects to the point that they seem like only logical answer to give them is "alien" which in effect also give them no accountability.

Sure do miss these threads!

Thanks for sharing

In my opinion I love the quote from Ben Rich, former chief of Lockheed Skunk Works that was posted on the page 1. Most people have heard phrase a picture is worth a million words, well I believe if you carefully analyze Ben Rich's words he's painted you a vibrant picture worth a million words yet in a elegant few, beyond that possibly layed out a beginning blue print of how to follow in there foot steps and take a lot of expense and time out of the technology. looking at it he states ''First, you have to understand that we will not get to the stars using chemical propulsion'' so he's telling us any kind of conventional engine not worth wasting time or money on. Next he tells you what is worth spending time and money on, "Second, we have to devise a new propulsion technology. What we have to do is find out where Einstein went wrong". While that seems like a huge thing to ask, Ben Rich may have left a path to what equation needs to be fixed, by stating "We now have the technology to take ET home. No, it won’t take someone’s lifetime to do it. There is an error in the equations. We know what it is." That could possibly tell us a lot, while i'll be the first to admit i'm not up to speed on a lot of Einstein work, we do know as common sense that even traveling at light speed or beyond would not put us in reach of most planets that are believed to be inside habitable zones around stars in a lot less than a life time, even if we could go several times speed of light still would not put us in reach, not to mention too many dangers. Minus any material problems etc. just navigating and seeing whats coming up is not worth the risk of developing technology to go that fast, even in vacuum of space catching small debree at that speed would be devastating. Its simply my opinion and my guess, but I believe it takes work and idea of 2 people with help of many others to achieve interstellar travel. First is Nikola Tesla, second Einstein reason I list them in that order is I believe Tesla found something years ago, that further work with today's computers and technology as allowed Einsteins theories and equations in quantum entanglement to take advantage of. While I don't believe it happened over night and certainly not from Roswell, I believe the first major step that man kind ever took was not on the moon, it was on the USS Eldridge during the "Philadelphia experiment" these are my own ideas but we know the ship was wrapped in heavy gauge wire allowing a lot of electricity to be run through them, next we know that a coiled wire with electricity run through it creates a electromagnetic field, along with black and white pictures I've seen showing frequency generator equipment being brought on the USS Eldridge and the frequency genius Tesla to work them, in effect creating a electromagnetic bubble around the ship. Then comes equations that Ben Rich said was wrong we've already had the fortune of being found for us, in that his equation showing that nothing can move beyond the speed of light has been proven wrong with quantum entanglement, which shows that possibly everything on the quantum level is connected to each other and is able to manipulate each other instantly over any distance. Couple that with what appears as USS Eldridge as reported vanishing then reappearing along ways away very quickly. At first I though its possible this large electromagnetic field with frequency being altered could of possibly bent space making 2 distant points closer together, however further reading and thinking it looks like everything that exists is one form or another of energy as its basic makeup and appears that moving via quantum entanglement would be the most efficient way to go anywhere instantly, if the electromagnetic field with frequency adjusted to point that it operates on frequency that quantum universe operates on and not the material universe, its possible that the crew inside the electromagnetic bubble is able to be moved anywhere that the electromagnetic bubble operating on the same frequency as quantum universe is moved instantly. If that's the case, It leaves the question if Tesla did find a "door" or frequency for better term to the quantum universe protected in a frequency altered electromagnetic bubble, how would you influence how far you go or where you "come out" when you lower frequency of electromagnetic field back to normal earth operating frequency? What on earth would it look like to the people protected inside electromagnetic bubble? Theres some belief that some of the crew was sick, disorientated, and some fused into parts of the ship, could that led us to any clues? Sure high electromagnetic energy could account for sick and disorientated but as far as I can tell frequency generator is what took them out of "phase" and only thing I can think of capable of fusing people into ship in that manner and brought the ship from "A" to "B" very quickly and very mysteriously.

Just some food for thought - suprised no one here has mentioned it yet, I guess maybe have way too much time on my hands these days, oh well

There's a nice "little" space program going on over in guess where? Kazakhstan! It's known as the Baikonur Cosmodrome, and is the world's "first and largest operational space launch facility"

Baikonur Cosmodrome

When NASA's last scheduled Space Shuttle mission lands in June of 2010, the United States will not have the capability to get astronauts into space again until the scheduled launch of the new Orion spacecraft in 2015. Over those five years, the U.S. manned space program will be relying heavily on Russia and its Baikonur Cosmodrome facility in Kazakhstan. Baikonur is an entire Kazakh city, rented and administered by Russia. The Cosmodrome was founded in 1955, making it one of the oldest space launch facilites still in operation. Here are collected some photographs of manned and unmanned launches from Baikonur over the past several years.

(This one has pictures!)
www.boston.com...

Some really cool stuff if you ask me, and while the space shuttle is "extinct" NASA is still working on developing new kinds of craft, such as the Orion

reply to post by Nicorette


I was well aware of the DoD missions (like this crap hasn't been beaten to death on ATS) and if you actually research them .....you will notice that they are all spy satellite deployments.

Big scandal there....not.

Did you even read your own evidence?

Originally posted by Enlightenme1111

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Let me repeat myself for clarity.......ALL NASA MISSIONS ARE BROADCAST IN SUCH A WAY THAT ANYONE CAN LISTEN IN ON THE CONVERSATION.......No encryption......just a nice analog signal that anyone can tune in to.

Seems rather counter-intuitive for an agency to be conducting "secret schemes"(

) to broadcast their communications on an open channel.

In fact, they have separate channels they broadcast on. There is an open channel for the peasants, such as yourself, and there are also closed and encrypted channels for people with higher pay grades.

Thank you OP for a well thought out and presented post.

I was gonna reply to the post you replied to, but I'd like to back you up on the guy repeating himself for clarity. It's WELL DOCUMENTED that there are encrypted channels in use for space communication. Several of the shuttle missions carried "top secret" payloads and some of those deployments had conversations that were never broadcast on an open channel where you could hear them.

There are also SEVERAL cases of in-progress communication between the space station and NASA where the Astronaut was ordered to switch to an encrypted channel - sometimes after witnessing a UFO incident or an in-progress UFO sighting.

I'm always amazed at those who are so convinced in something that is so easily proven wrong. If I can google or youtube or even nasa.gov search for these documented cases in 5 minutes, surely you can, too. And I'm not calling you Shirley.

Originally posted by bjarneorn
I do not agree, that there is any hidden group with a hidden agenda, nor doI believe an alien was found in Roswell.

But I'll give it a S&F anyway, because ultimately it's a question of lack of vision. The one reality, that you still failed to emphasize properly.

You can see this "lack" of vision anywhere ... and especially in the "computer" world. During the 80's and the beginning of the 90's we were advancing fast. But it halted, basically because other interrests became more prevailant than the seeking of intellect and knowledge. As the science faculties became bigger, and more money was flowing through their hallways. People with no vision, except the desire to have money, became the dominating factor in these areas.

Today, in 2012, we are still using the same basic technology in computer science as was developed in the 60's and 70's. Major difference being only in the advancement in the creation of electronic hardware. This is because computer science, became a magnet for idiots who had a rich mom and dad. They had absolutely zero vision, except to be a computer scientist and earn big cash.

So, today we are seeing the decline of computer technology with the passing of Steve Jobs, and when Gates passes away ... it'll basically be it's death bed. People like Linus Torvalds, is not a computer genius ... he and others like him, are copy cats. No vision involved, except to basically "steal" Unix. THis is because most of the University faculties in computer science used Unix, and have never had any vision beyond that.

And the same applies to space exploration ... when von Braun died, the vision died with him.

What is needed, is less "alien" stories, and less "hollywood" stars to proclaim their lack of intellect ... and to advance those who have some sort of vision for the future.

I have to respectfully disagree with your argument. First of all, the mobile app explosion and smartphone technologies are definitely not 60's technology and not based on 70's architecture.

Secondly - have there been any improvements to the incandescent light bulb over the last 150 years? No. Why? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. My company still runs a slew of Windows XP machines because there is no business need to attempt to upgrade to newer technologies. In terms of Information Systems, as with the industrial revolution, you saw a tremendous surge and spike in it's infancy, and less revolutionary ideas as the technologies matured. That's what you seem to be frustrated with - there is no "next big thing" to get excited about.

Third, I think lumping all computer science engineers into one "they are all lazy" bucket is in itself a kind of a lazy comment to make. As we saw with Einstein, Steve Jobs was a once-in-a-generation visionary (and please don't start flaming me with who he ripped off, I've heard it all). Jobs and Einstein not equals, just as Hawking is different from both of them. These individuals don't grow on trees.

I would actually argue the opposite of your "rich kid" argument - and say that those who DIDN'T attempt to get into engineering or computer science and opted for a degree in Art of Archaeology are the lazy ones - expecting to coast through 4 years of easy school work and expect to get paid top dollar for what is a useless degree in the private sector.

Mankind does need a new project similar to what Apollo brought us - which forced us to invent new technologies and to advance those already invented. People don't understand - Apollo brought us more than landing a man on the moon. It brought us kidney dialysis machines, CAT scan technology, physical therapy machines used by college sports programs, and different ways to cook and prepare food safely. A program like Apollo would surely bring us even more today.

Originally posted by bluestreak53
Very interesting thread Mirageman. And I have to wonder if there is any grain of truth behind any of these ideas.

I wonder where you would put people like Col. Corso and John Lear into all this?

My thoughts are that the USAF and other defense agencies built a climate of skepticism around the idea of UFOs as ET craft, way back in the 1950s. The culture in these organizations is such that it is not welcome to talk about UFOs as anything but a joke. But there would be many people who maybe have had access to enough information that they know that the "official line" is mostly self deception.

I have to think that Corso really believed some of the stuff he wrote - maybe not all of it. Or maybe his written account is the result of decades of keeping some grain of truth hidden in the back of his minds, where it all grew into this rather fictitious tale of alien technology transfer. The same may apply to John Lear. You've got to think that he probably has had some access to some "UFO secrets" over the course of his career, and maybe he has sort of just gone a bit off the deep end into all sorts of rather baseless theorizing since he has the knowledge that something is being kept secret from us.

I don't know, but as much as I am very skeptical about a lot of these stories, I think there probably was some level of contact between the US military and ET back in the early days post World War II.

With respect to the idea that our civilization is not meeting the early expectations of space travel, I've got to say that when I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut and go to Mars, but I was afraid that humans would land on Mars years before I was old enough to make the trip myself. How wrong I was!

Hello bluestreak. I am rushed for time tonight as I have other matters to attend to.

I have to admit my knowledge of John Lear is limited to the links he had to Bob Lazar and Area 51 and having heard him speak on a few radio/TV shows. My impression of him was that he will believe almost any wacky theory out there, but that some small parts of what he says may actually be true. That may be unfair but as I said I have a limited knowledge of Lear.

As for Corso. I know a bit more about him and did consider including him in the OP but felt it was bloated enough. It's pretty certain he was who he said he was. But I suspect Bill Birnes may have exaggerated some of the tales in his book to make it sell well. Corso could of course have fed disinformation knowingly with the military quite happy for him to make money out of it all. He may have even mixed some half truths in there. I find it quite hard to believe that humanity had to be given a helping hand with alien technology as well. So I too am a bit sceptical on that one.

I got frustrated with the space programme as a small boy in the 70s as the books I read at the time were from a decade earlier and full of plans to go out into the solar system. I really thought we'd have had a colony on Mars by now.

Maybe we really do have

reply to post by mirageman


I have a hard time believing that aliens just showed up mid 20th century. Either the aliens were here all along or they aren't here yet, or maybe we are them. The only way the aliens just happen to show up in the 1950's is if the entire 20th century was a BioWare video game that everyone gets born into somewhere between 1950 and 2000, then we get until December 21, 2012 to either level up or morph into a non-playable character.

Very well put together man. Interesting read.

Thank you for sharing the information. I just completely lost track of about 3 hours of time (which means I really enjoyed it!).

Originally posted by JeSterR117
reply to post by mirageman

 

I have a hard time believing that aliens just showed up mid 20th century. Either the aliens were here all along or they aren't here yet, or maybe we are them. The only way the aliens just happen to show up in the 1950's is if the entire 20th century was a BioWare video game that everyone gets born into somewhere between 1950 and 2000, then we get until December 21, 2012 to either level up or morph into a non-playable character.

I would posit this theory - that after World War II and detecting the use of nuclear weapons, other civilizations stood up and took notice. Why do we see so many strange UFO sightings over secret military bases that have a cache of nuclear weapons? Sure you could argue "experimental military craft" but how does that explain events like the Rendlesham Forest incident? I can't say for sure that they are here or aren't, are observing or aren't. Most of us can't. You have a valid question but I think my theory could hold up, too.

reply to post by mirageman


Secret Schemes!

One Star and one Flag is not enough...

reply to post by Motocross4life


Men being embedded in the sides of the ship, "trans dimensional?" placing us outside of the limitations of faster than light. The entanglement of particles is what has my attention though, with the physics Nobel Prize going to two gents who have measured photons without destroying the wave function. Have you read about this?

www.huffingtonpost.com...[/url]
(Sorry not sure the link will work - this weeks news though)

Certainly the powers that be are into this and I very much doubt that the intention is supercomputers.

We can place remotely controlled hardware anywhere and make all the decisions here implementing them instantly on Mars and elsewhere.

We can have working self-contained habitats ready and waiting on Mars, a moon on Jupiter, and the nearest solar systems. This is before a human has ever physically been there.

We get rid of the limitations of designing space ships that will not kill us. We can pretty much do this now, though it looks expensive and a lot of work - the science is their that can make this happen.

Secret schemes? The only thing that matters in your life is the survival of this species. Monopoly money and iphones should not be your top priority. The longer we put all our eggs in one basket (this planet), the longer we risk everything we have ever had or wish to have. We fund our military to aim our guns at ourselves while we should be using those resources to fund a way to get the hell off this rock.

That is why we are a failed species.

The amount of funds wasted in wars in The Middle East could have been so much better applied. What fools we are. What a shame. ~$heopleNation

I think the majority of UFO's are all part of this program. Lot of reasons for secrecy, but probably find the main reason if you follow the money to the world's largest industry - the energy industry.

reply to post by mirageman

The mid 1970s were a period of economic recession, rising fuel prices, and fears over future fuel and food supplies

Jesus, we're going on 50 years of this same situation. When the hell are we gonna do something about it? Who's stopping us from breaking out of this crazy loop of self-induced ignorant chaos? Is it merely ourselves, or indeed a more secretive and malevolent power? Whatever the case, it's depressing to think about

Nice write-up OP, I enjoyed the read

Originally posted by SheopleNation
The amount of funds wasted in wars in The Middle East could have been so much better applied. What fools we are. What a shame. ~$heopleNation

Religion will be the downfall of mankind.

People, stop your dumb "great thread" comments and add to the discussion/debate. When you star and flag you have signaled your praise. Try having something to actually bring to the table.

I'm not certain OP is completely correct, but definitely on to something - when we spend so much each year on black ops that not even Congress knows what the heck is going on. See how that works?

Mirageman, great thread. Well researched and laid out.

While I am or convinced about a secret space program, I find the idea plausible.