Human Space Exploration: Broken Dreams or Secret Schemes?

Originally posted by mirageman
But is there just enough amongst these stories to make you think to yourself; “…is there a secret space program?”

No, there isn't.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin

Let me repeat myself for clarity.......ALL NASA MISSIONS ARE BROADCAST IN SUCH A WAY THAT ANYONE CAN LISTEN IN ON THE CONVERSATION.......No encryption......just a nice analog signal that anyone can tune in to.

Seems rather counter-intuitive for an agency to be conducting "secret schemes"(

) to broadcast their communications on an open channel.

In fact, they have separate channels they broadcast on. There is an open channel for the peasants, such as yourself, and there are also closed and encrypted channels for people with higher pay grades.

Thank you OP for a well thought out and presented post.

reply to post by mirageman


Great thread.
Have you read Zorgon's fantastic thread:
NAVY Space Command Uncovered

A great read indeed.

reply to post by mirageman


We have Anti-gravity devices that can travel the solar system but no further yet, bases on mars for decades

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would say yes there is a secret space program and there were a few unofficial space flights, some of the craft that were used were also mistaken as UFOs. I also think the statement by Rumsfeld before 9/11 is significant.

Just to explain some of my reasoning, the U.S. gov have no problems with carrying out secret missions and they would almost certainly like to have a private venture (with no scrutiny), in order to explore and probably profit in some way (possibly resources).

However long from now, when/if humans start colonizing other planets, the missions carried out by the U.S. gov will still be top secret. Makes perfect sense to me

reply to post by mirageman

But is there just enough amongst these stories to make you think to yourself; “…is there a secret space program?”

Back in the '90s, two friends and I were looking into the clear night sky to see the Mir station pass over. We saw a satellite or Mir passing overhead and watched it. One mate said 'WTF?' and we noticed another light of similar magnitude to the satellite/Mir moving at a similar speed but in a fixed, triangular pattern. The Mir/satellite moved away on its straight trajectory and the other remained where it was and continued moving in that same way.

We watched it repeat the manoeuvres for a few minutes and ran out of interest before carrying on to where we were going.

The angular diameter of the area of sky within which it moved was less than a degree.

To me, this could only be explained by a space program we know nothing about or *someone* else. A few weeks ago, I asked my friend if he remembers it and he said no. I haven't spoken to the other one this year. So despite having my own clear recollection of this incident, it's no longer a multiple-witness case and has become nothing more than a one-man anecdote and we all know how dodgy they can be.

I do not agree, that there is any hidden group with a hidden agenda, nor doI believe an alien was found in Roswell.

But I'll give it a S&F anyway, because ultimately it's a question of lack of vision. The one reality, that you still failed to emphasize properly.

You can see this "lack" of vision anywhere ... and especially in the "computer" world. During the 80's and the beginning of the 90's we were advancing fast. But it halted, basically because other interrests became more prevailant than the seeking of intellect and knowledge. As the science faculties became bigger, and more money was flowing through their hallways. People with no vision, except the desire to have money, became the dominating factor in these areas.

Today, in 2012, we are still using the same basic technology in computer science as was developed in the 60's and 70's. Major difference being only in the advancement in the creation of electronic hardware. This is because computer science, became a magnet for idiots who had a rich mom and dad. They had absolutely zero vision, except to be a computer scientist and earn big cash.

So, today we are seeing the decline of computer technology with the passing of Steve Jobs, and when Gates passes away ... it'll basically be it's death bed. People like Linus Torvalds, is not a computer genius ... he and others like him, are copy cats. No vision involved, except to basically "steal" Unix. THis is because most of the University faculties in computer science used Unix, and have never had any vision beyond that.

And the same applies to space exploration ... when von Braun died, the vision died with him.

What is needed, is less "alien" stories, and less "hollywood" stars to proclaim their lack of intellect ... and to advance those who have some sort of vision for the future.

Excellent topic OP.

I'm personally inclined to believe there are US and USSR bases on the moon, and we have ventured to Mars, Near Jupiter and near Venus.

Those "back to Mars" comments have always stayed stuck in my head, as has "the monolith on Phobos" (Edgar).

There's a very DEEP spacegate conspiracy afoot.

Please keep your eyes peeled in a few weeks time for a thread in the Research Forum for a topic highly related, that just might leave your mind reeling.

reply to post by mirageman


I would like to ask you a serious question. do you think the world government leaders are being 100% truthful on the ET question?

with all the secret space plane missions, bombing the moon, 2.3 trillion unaccounted for etc....the evidence points to something more going on. As for evidence of the truth or better yet lack there of. That is by design, keep us guessing. so they can do what they want to up and out there. Also keep us distracted with the economy gas prices and man made disasters so we are not interested in what is really going on. they even have a law on the books that YOU are not allowed to have contact with ET visitors. If you do somehow make contact you can and will be indefinitely detained. that law has been around since the mid to late 60's (use the ats search engine)
i wonder if behind closed doors at the un the disclosure carrot is dangled around do what i want you to do or else we will spill the beans invade this or that country or else (would answer alot of questions regarding the UN general assembly....................

reply to post by OccamAssassin

Every time the space shuttle would have a mission....my wife (and sometimes the kids) and I would leave my scanner on to listen in to the SW transmissions of the shuttle missions. These transmissions are picked up by people like myself and rebroadcast in the UHF band for anyone with an appropriate receiver. Let me repeat myself for clarity.......ALL NASA MISSIONS ARE BROADCAST IN SUCH A WAY THAT ANYONE CAN LISTEN IN ON THE CONVERSATION.......No encryption......just a nice analog signal that anyone can tune in to.

I can listen to law enforcement on my scanner too. No encryption. But having been in a few of these vehicles for a whole shift a few times. I can also tell you they have frequencies that are not for public consumption. They are either scrambled or not where a scanner can find them. So what I hear on my scanner is a meagher portion of the story.

The same can be said for NASA broadcasts. You aren't hearing ALL that is being said. Guaranteed.

The Moon Landing missions effectively ended manned space exploration by 1972 with its gigantic $19bn budget and certainly stopped Americas promising Hypersonic X-plane program. The X-program was doing very nicely with missions achieving Mach 6+ and a 280,000ft ceiling. The next phase would have seen a direct orbital insertion using a rocket platform and a multiple crew X-vehicle (sounds familiar). All this in the 60's, so it would seem that the Kennedy administration set back Americas space missions by 20 years or more. The relief of cancelling the X-program and its $600,000 cost per flight compared to the Apollo launches each costing an average $3.23bn must have been palpable.

reply to post by Klassified


NASA is hardly law enforcement and really can't be compared to such.

Will the police offer transcripts of what is said over the radios to the general public?

NASA log every word that is said over their radios and release a transcript(possibly/likely modified) to the public via the web.


NASA is not a government agency under the direct scrutiny of the DoD.

NASA is a government agency under the intense scrutiny of the entire world. Many scientists & engineers from around the world contribute to setting up experiments and providing exotic one-off hardware to the US space program in the interests of understanding more about the universe. In return, the space program is now almost transparent so that the scientists & engineers from other countries can collect data on each mission.

I have no doubt that the DoD have space craft of some kind....to me it would make far more sense from a strategic viewpoint to keep such a capability within the military.

But I doubt very much that NASA would have anything to do with it beyond R & D.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
This thread is just BS....

Every time the space shuttle would have a mission....my wife (and sometimes the kids) and I would leave my scanner on to listen in to the SW transmissions of the shuttle missions. These transmissions are picked up by people like myself and rebroadcast in the UHF band for anyone with an appropriate receiver.

Let me repeat myself for clarity.......ALL NASA MISSIONS ARE BROADCAST IN SUCH A WAY THAT ANYONE CAN LISTEN IN ON THE CONVERSATION.......No encryption......just a nice analog signal that anyone can tune in to.

Seems rather counter-intuitive for an agency to be conducting "secret schemes"(

) to broadcast their communications on an open channel.

But I suppose logic gets thrown out the door when dealing with conspiracy theorists.

Even the most casual visit of the Wikipedia list of space shuttle missions shows NASA ran classified missions for the Department of Defense from 1985 to 1992.

en.wikipedia.org...

If you are going to call things BS, conspiracy theories, and the work of morons, without even having the decency to look up simple facts, you're the one who is throwing logic out the door, replacing it with ad hominem attacks and complete logical breakdowns like this:

"I heard some shuttle transmissions on my radio." =/= "All shuttle transmissions were broadcast over public radio"
"I have never heard of DoD missions on NASA missions" =/= "There were never DoD missions on shuttles"
Etc.

That second video from Anglia TV, Science Report, was broadcast on !st April, 1977! April fool!!!!!! And if you care to look back to the press of the time was acknowledged as one! www.metatech.org/A06/alternative_3_DVD_Mars.html is just one of the first links.

Brilliant trip back in time, genuinely filmed at the time but watch again; stiffly acted and sometimes a hint of a smile!!

I really did enjoy this thread and a lot of what is said is sound and informative, however, that example just doesn't cut with me!

Originally posted by gaurdian2012
reply to post by mirageman

 

I would like to ask you a serious question. do you think the world government leaders are being 100% truthful on the ET question? .............

Hmmm. Are the world government leaders being truthful on the ET issue?

This is not a question I can answer with a simple yes or no because it really depends on the scenario of what the ET truth is.

My gut feeling is no - we aren't being told everything. But the level of concealed information is the big mystery.

I think that if we discovered an alien microbe on Mars (or elsewhere) then there would be no problem with it and we'd be told. If we received a signal from distant space that suggested someone out there was around the same level of technology then I think that would we also have been told. If evidence was found on Earth of an alien technology from pre-history then I think that could be a more tricky one to handle and we may not be told.

If (some) UFOs really have been identified as alien craft buzzing around our atmosphere and evading our fighter aircraft then I would think that no government would want to admit that we don't have any defence in our airspace against these things. If crashed alien technology has been discovered then it would make sense to keep it secret from the public and your enemies (probably allies as well).

Finally if ET has really made contact then you would assume that they must be pulling the strings as officially nothing has been confirmed. Could every leader in every nation in the world privy to the secret though keep such a secret forever?

Maybe government leaders are not "in the loop" or maybe all they know is that there are UFOs but we have no idea of their origins and we can't seem to do anything about them.

Originally posted by Alien44
That second video from Anglia TV, Science Report, was broadcast on !st April, 1977! April fool!!!!!! And if you care to look back to the press of the time was acknowledged as one! www.metatech.org/A06/alternative_3_DVD_Mars.html is just one of the first links.

Brilliant trip back in time, genuinely filmed at the time but watch again; stiffly acted and sometimes a hint of a smile!!

I really did enjoy this thread and a lot of what is said is sound and informative, however, that example just doesn't cut with me!

edit on 14-10-2012 by Alien44 because: Added text.

edit on 14-10-2012 by Alien44 because: more text

The Science Report "Alternative 3" episode was intended for broadcast on April the 1st 1977 but didn't go out on the air until June 20, 1977 after an industrial dispute. Union power was still very strong in the pre-Thatcher era.

I am not sure if I've misunderstood your point that this example doesn't cut it. The show was quite clearly a spoof and work of fiction. This was pointed out in the OP. However I did say that "Alternative 3", whilst fictional, has been used as a basis for "Breakaway civilization" theories. I assume you disagree?

Let's just say that I think it was so obviously a spoof that it served little purpose in its endeavor and basing anything on that particular episode would be quite risky although its theories are far from fictitious. I'm not sure that, at the time, it would have served its purpose. At the time of reading however, I did skip read quite a lot and didn't notice you'd so clearly made the point; apologies for any unintended discredit although I think my point does still stand.

Very interesting thread Mirageman. And I have to wonder if there is any grain of truth behind any of these ideas.

I wonder where you would put people like Col. Corso and John Lear into all this?

My thoughts are that the USAF and other defense agencies built a climate of skepticism around the idea of UFOs as ET craft, way back in the 1950s. The culture in these organizations is such that it is not welcome to talk about UFOs as anything but a joke. But there would be many people who maybe have had access to enough information that they know that the "official line" is mostly self deception.

I have to think that Corso really believed some of the stuff he wrote - maybe not all of it. Or maybe his written account is the result of decades of keeping some grain of truth hidden in the back of his minds, where it all grew into this rather fictitious tale of alien technology transfer. The same may apply to John Lear. You've got to think that he probably has had some access to some "UFO secrets" over the course of his career, and maybe he has sort of just gone a bit off the deep end into all sorts of rather baseless theorizing since he has the knowledge that something is being kept secret from us.

I don't know, but as much as I am very skeptical about a lot of these stories, I think there probably was some level of contact between the US military and ET back in the early days post World War II.

With respect to the idea that our civilization is not meeting the early expectations of space travel, I've got to say that when I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut and go to Mars, but I was afraid that humans would land on Mars years before I was old enough to make the trip myself. How wrong I was!

Yeah Space its done.
It never had a chance.
I think it went down with the Titanic.
The Tesla space ship he said went 300 miles per second perhaps exists in some fashion.
Ships will stay hidden forever but flown by special crews and kept under denials.

reply to post by bluestreak53


I'll pick up on your points tomorrow bluestreak as it's getting late here in the UK.

Plenty of food for thought there.