Some calculations and questions concerning "The End"

To reply to your post.

That is the KJV, but it just means "in the future".

Jacob/Israel makes it quite clear when he said "End of Days/Acharit HaYamim". Clearly Genesis 48 and 49 is a prediction of an event that takes place then. Put simply the end of days has an alternate meaning of when the Israelites have become a multitude of nations.

There simply wasn't enough Israelites to go around by the first century AD to satisfy the prophesies. Not to mention Gog-Magog hasn't happened yet either. Acharit HaYamim hasn't happened yet.

And that explains Matthew 24 verses 14 and 15.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

The gospel had to reach to at least one member of every nation/race/ethnic group in order for the prophecy of verse 14 to be satisfied. And that explains the warning of verse 15. Daniel 11 is a list of end time events. Still mostly future events. Except maybe 11-2.

It is generally understood that everything described in Daniel already happened.

You miss the warnings of Daniel 12.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

This book is not supposed to have been understood until the time of the end. Congratulations for making it there BTW. The mainstream view of Daniel is wrong. What happened before was a preview of coming attractions.

Why? I believe I explained the problem thoroughly above with the curse of Malachi explanation. They rebuffed the Messiahs and in return got a 2000 year detour in the road to the Lord's day. Which makes me wonder if Herod had a backbone and said no to Salome's request for John the Baptist's head what would have happened?

reply to post by ntech

There simply wasn't enough Israelites to go around by the first century AD to satisfy the prophesies.

Ever heard of the diaspora?
There were plenty, it is just that they became Christians so the the Jews who came along later just ignore and disown them, and you just go along with the agenda of deception.
You don't see how philosophy has been injected to make you look into a delusionary future fulfillment when the true one already happened. Sorry to have to inform you that you have been had by a diabolical scheme to deceive people into looking at a fake Israel for the fulfillment when the true Israel exists right now and has since the time of Jesus.

This book is not supposed to have been understood until the time of the end.

The proper way to understand it was described by Jesus and then the last days of the temple happened, so it is all over, and now there exists the kingdom of the Lord, Jesus. Sorry if you can not accept that because of the agenda of the cults to deceive you into believing no kingdom presently exists.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well it's obvious that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind however as a parting shot I would point this out. It would appear the prophesies of Daniel are repeating. Daniel 11-2 makes a perfectly accurate description of the 9-11 attacks. And Daniel 8 seems to predict the conquering of Afghanistan and Iraq. If so and the term "realm of Greece" is actually a reference to Washington DC then I would point out you're missing the game.

And if the creation of the nation of Israel was an end time event then I would also point out that the "generation" of Matthew 24 is currently 64 years old. This is exactly the point in time where those Daniel prophesies would need to start happening if they were to happen at the time of the end.

All things considered as far as I am concerned it appears the apocalypse is running. And getting ready to bite the world on it's collective a** in no more that a couple of years.

And Daniel 11-4 is terrifying considering that it's predicting the failure of a number of nations. And the US getting fractured 4 ways.

I wish you were correct. The evidence says otherwise however.

Mark 13.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

reply to post by ntech

Daniel 11-2 makes a perfectly accurate description of the 9-11 attacks.

Are you reading a different Bible? Mine has Daniel 11:2 talking about Persia and Greece.

. . . the term "realm of Greece" is actually a reference to Washington DC . . .

I don't see you not convincing just me, but anybody, on that sort of interpretation.

And if the creation of the nation of Israel was an end time event then I would also point out that the "generation" of Matthew 24 is currently 64 years old. This is exactly the point in time where those Daniel prophesies would need to start happening if they were to happen at the time of the end.

I don't consider the zionist regime illegally occupying Palestine as even being a "nation" period, much less some fulfillment of a reconstituted legitimate "Israel", even if they do call it that. I see the so-called state as being nothing but a colony of the New World Order illuminate.
And this mathematical formula is Hal Lindsey nonsense regurgitated. If there was a "generation", it would start when the temple is rebuilt and goes into full operation. Nothing else would fit the bill, and definitely not a phone call from the local representative of a zionist league declaring themselves as an independent state.

All things considered as far as I am concerned it appears the apocalypse is running.

We have been in the time of the apocalypse since the preaching of John the Baptist and it never ends.

reply to post by ntech


"The mainstream view of Daniel is wrong."

How very true there is only 3.5 years left of the 70 weeks.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Daniel 11-2 makes a perfectly accurate description of the 9-11 attacks.
Are you reading a different Bible? Mine has Daniel 11:2 talking about Persia and Greece.

Merely looking for the truth behind the words.

According to Daniel 10 what Daniel is describing is a vision. Essentially he saw a motion picture and he is trying to describe it. And in 11-6 he noted that this vision takes place in the end of years. When the Israelites have become a multitude of nations.

So what is this term "Greece" he used? It's what is known as a simile. It's what prophets use when they see something that is unknown to them. It's a description. Daniel isn't saying in 11-2 that it's actually the nation of Greece. What he is saying is that the thing being attacked looked Greek to him. And if you think about it how would a well educated man of 500 BC would had described the 2001 attack on Washington DC?

Now if this was October 6th 2001 this one event by itself this would be a interesting coincidence. But what's happened since then? George Bush attacked Afghanistan and Iraq. Precisely what Daniel 8 has predicted for the end times. And that appears to trigger another warning in Matthew 24.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Is the carcass of verse 28 the ram of Daniel 8? For once the ram is killed what you have is a carcass. And he has already referred back to Daniel 11 with the abomination of desolation reference. It seems likely. And this event of Matthew 24 seems like it's describing the same event of Daniel 11-4.

I don't consider the zionist regime illegally occupying Palestine as even being a "nation" period, much less some fulfillment of a reconstituted legitimate "Israel", even if they do call it that. I see the so-called state as being nothing but a colony of the New World Order illuminate. And this mathematical formula is Hal Lindsey nonsense regurgitated. If there was a "generation", it would start when the temple is rebuilt and goes into full operation. Nothing else would fit the bill, and definitely not a phone call from the local representative of a zionist league declaring themselves as an independent state.

It's not your opinion that matters. It what God thinks that's important.

You ignore Ezekiel 37 and Hosea 3.
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

You may hate their guts for whatever reason but don't let it blind you to the bigger picture. A nation of Israel is a requirement for the last days. And that one exists is such an obvious fig leaf of Matthew 24 that only the ignorant and blind could miss it.

We have been in the time of the apocalypse since the preaching of John the Baptist and it never ends.

But we have been in the curse of Malachi since John the Baptist. And it's ending. That's when it gets dangerous. Before the day of Jezreel.

reply to post by ntech

But we have been in the curse of Malachi since John the Baptist.

Who are you considering "we"?
The curse was right now, meaning in the time the writer was composing what we today call Malachi.
It is probably a sort of wake-up call before the real disaster is going to come if they don't change their ways, with "they" being the people related to the second temple, which is in a general way the same temple as where Jesus "suddenly visited" as described in the Gospel.
The New Testament is taking the oracle of Malachi and applying it to things that were in the past already, when Jesus was still carrying out his earthly ministry, and the other and final part is in our past today, when Jesus fully came into his kingdom with the visible sign of it here being the destruction of the temple in judgment.

You may hate their guts for whatever reason but don't let it blind you to the bigger picture.

That is a false assumption people make in order to dismiss what I say as only being a product of some kind of antisemitism.

A nation of Israel is a requirement for the last days.

For there to be a destruction of a temple there had to be one first, which there was, and it was destroyed, a long time ago. There is nothing that says there has to be a third temple and do it all over again. And don't say "Revelation" because that was written while the temple was still standing.
Where exactly did you get indoctrinated into this cult philosophy about an Israel that is antichrist? I was never brought up in a cult like that so it is very difficult to accept such an idea because it is definitely not taught in the Bible.

reply to post by jmdewey60

But we have been in the curse of Malachi since John the Baptist. Who are you considering "we"? The curse was right now, meaning in the time the writer was composing what we today call Malachi. It is probably a sort of wake-up call before the real disaster is going to come if they don't change their ways, with "they" being the people related to the second temple, which is in a general way the same temple as where Jesus "suddenly visited" as described in the Gospel. The New Testament is taking the oracle of Malachi and applying it to things that were in the past already, when Jesus was still carrying out his earthly ministry, and the other and final part is in our past today, when Jesus fully came into his kingdom with the visible sign of it here being the destruction of the temple in judgment.

Who are the "we" I'm talking about? Read the Genesis 48 and 49 prophesies. Quite literally according to the prophesy the descendants of Israel were to become a multitude of nations.

Genesis 13
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

And then add the Romans 11 olive tree parable. Essentially a Christian is an adopted Israelite. And as such they have all the rights, privileges and obligations of a natural Israelite.

As such I would say that 80-90% of the world's population has at least 1 Israelite in their family tree now. Which makes the Leviticus 26 compact binding on them irregardless of their current religion. And before you mention it yes it's still valid and binding.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And the other problem is that the curse of Malachi is a long curse.

Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

It's a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. It's still running. And according to the historical evidence the Jews have been serving it. Plus this curse would have been triggered in the 69th week of the Daniel 9 seventy weeks. The 70th week is still waiting to run. Unfinished business.

A nation of Israel is a requirement for the last days.

For there to be a destruction of a temple there had to be one first, which there was, and it was destroyed, a long time ago. There is nothing that says there has to be a third temple and do it all over again. And don't say "Revelation" because that was written while the temple was still standing. Where exactly did you get indoctrinated into this cult philosophy about an Israel that is antichrist? I was never brought up in a cult like that so it is very difficult to accept such an idea because it is definitely not taught in the Bible.

Actually it is taught in the bible. To start with the Leviticus 26 agreement specifies that no matter how bad the punishment eventually the Israelites would be restored to God's good graces.

Leviticus 26
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Isaiah 6
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

Continued

reply to post by ntech


Hosea 1
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

Hosea 2
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

Hosea 3
3 And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Then there is the Ezekiel 37 prophecy. Zechariah 12,13, and 14.

And so on...

A nation of Israel is required in order for a new temple to be built. Now they are merely waiting for the branch to show up to build it.

reply to post by ntech

A nation of Israel is required in order for a new temple to be built. Now they are merely waiting for the branch to show up to build it.

Can you explain what purpose this hypothetical new temple serves?

Back in the 1970s, when I had Dispensationalist friends, they were taught and believed that the temple would be occupied by a person they referred to as AntiChrist (a seemingly good man, who actually served a force that worked for destruction of humanity).

Is there some actual benefit to mankind to be derived from a new temple?

reply to post by ntech

Who are the "we" I'm talking about? Read the Genesis 48 and 49 prophesies. Quite literally according to the prophesy the descendants of Israel were to become a multitude of nations.

There is a blessing in Genesis 48, made by the old patriarch,

May they grow into a multitude on the earth.

I see no way to take that and interpret it to be a valid argument for my being an Israelite. Then in chapter 49 he gives blessings for his individual sons. I don't see anything in there that I would consider relevant to my status in some sort of nationhood.

Genesis 13
16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

There is a parallel that can be made in Revelation but it is not a reciprocal interpretation, meaning you can see the imagery from Genesis being employed by the writer of Revelation but you can not use that passage in Revelation to interpret the passage in Genesis from which it is drawn.

And then add the Romans 11 olive tree parable. Essentially a Christian is an adopted Israelite. And as such they have all the rights, privileges and obligations of a natural Israelite.

It never says that in Romans 11 and your saying it does seems to be an indication that you are still under the spell cast by your cult indoctrination.

As such I would say that 80-90% of the world's population has at least 1 Israelite in their family tree now. Which makes the Leviticus 26 compact binding on them irregardless of their current religion. And before you mention it yes it's still valid and binding.

There is a new and true and spiritual Israel that you enter through Jesus and not by the law, meaning the old covenant which is now obsolete and superseded.

Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

It is brought out by Jesus in the Gospel that there is a fundamental law that exists independent of a written law (which he describes as being inferior) that is spiritual in nature and what is the law of the new covenant. That law, the one Jesus gave, will never pass away, while the temporary law of Moses met its match in Jesus and not recedes into oblivion.

And the other problem is that the curse of Malachi is a long curse.
Hosea 6
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

It's a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. It's still running. And according to the historical evidence the Jews have been serving it. Plus this curse would have been triggered in the 69th week of the Daniel 9 seventy weeks. The 70th week is still waiting to run. Unfinished business.

This seems to be a theory unique to you. There is nothing to say that two days means 2000 years and even if it was, it would be completely irrelevant. Those curses were nailed to the cross. Any curse that existed in the past was nullified and a new beginning established by the reign of Christ. I think any hearkening back to those detracts from the reality of the rule of God through His son who he has enthroned.

Actually it is taught in the bible. To start with the Leviticus 26 agreement specifies that no matter how bad the punishment eventually the Israelites would be restored to God's good graces.

A nation of Israel is required in order for a new temple to be built. Now they are merely waiting for the branch to show up to build it.

None of those quotes answers my question of where a third temple is taught in the Bible.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You do realize that there are more prophesies about the second coming of Christ than there are about the first coming, right?

K, just checking. Since you seem to think it's all just metaphorical.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

You do realize that there are more prophesies about the second coming of Christ than there are about the first coming, right?

K, just checking. Since you seem to think it's all just metaphorical.

I am pretty sure you can not actually cite any of those.
I would say it is about zero and zero.
The Lord would come to His temple and the Gospel says that was Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. The rest is more tying up loose ends but we have our God and now we need to recognize him and go about doing what he commanded which has nothing to do with sitting around waiting to be raptured.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by DarkKnight21

 

You do realize that there are more prophesies about the second coming of Christ than there are about the first coming, right?

K, just checking. Since you seem to think it's all just metaphorical.

I am pretty sure you can not actually cite any of those.

From Jesus himself:

Matthew 24:37-51

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Your words betray you. You are saying that the master is staying away a long time. You beat your fellow servants by calling them cult members. You are drunk with your own opinions, then you deceive others by claiming they are the words of God. You are not acting as a loving member of the body of Christ but as a hypocrite.

Also this:

Mathew 24: 26-27

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

And this:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

And finally:

Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

See that? The whole world must bear witness to the Gospel first. This was not possible in Christ's time 2000 years ago, because the whole world hadn't even been properly mapped yet. This is, however, possible in our generation.

Please, get your eyes checked. Get your heart checked. Go read Matthew 24 again, then come back and tell me that it wasn't a message to our generation.

For reference:
7 Major Prophetic Signs of the Second Coming

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Your words betray you. You are saying that the master is staying away a long time. You beat your fellow servants by calling them cult members. You are drunk with your own opinions, then you deceive others by claiming they are the words of God. You are not acting as a loving member of the body of Christ but as a hypocrite.

Auditioning for the role of martyr?
I'm not anybody's "master".
That saying of Jesus in the Gospel was talking about who did set themselves up as masters and that was the temple priesthood of Jerusalem in the time of Jesus, the ones who beat Jesus and his Apostles.
The judgment and the "coming of the son of man" was imagery borrowed by Jesus from Daniel to explain what was going to be the result of their rejecting him.
This is something that is fundamental in Christianity and has been the teaching of the church until the relatively recent incursion into the theological scene by the cult belief of dispensationalism which throws church tradition into the dust bin in order to create a system of idolatry that places a so-called nation above Jesus the Lord.

And this:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

The topic is introduced at the beginning of the passage, which is "what about the believers who are dead, should we grieve for them?" He answers basically "no". The subject is not about when because it was already understood in the popular form of Judaism at that time that there is a "last day" when people are resurrected to be judged. Paul expands it to say they are not just judged but being "dead in Christ" go on from there to stay alive, rather than to something else, like going back to being dead.

Also this:
Mathew 24: 26-27

People in that culture thought of the world being flat with a dome over it being "the heavens" so this is imagery describing a worldwide phenomenon. In this instance, Jesus' reign being over the world and not isolated cases known only to few.

And finally:
Matthew 24:14

Again, the people had a rather finite understanding of what "the world" was, so to them the Gospel was preached to the world, the world of the people in the practice of visiting the temple at least once a year, before "the end" of the temple cult system.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Its a nicely worded reply, but again, it's your opinion and has zero basis in Scripture.

reply to post by DarkKnight21

Its a nicely worded reply, but again, it's your opinion and has zero basis in Scripture.

You seem to have a vague sort of position based on cult indoctrination with no ability to defend it since the arguments only work when you are entranced in one of your cult meetings.

reply to post by jmdewey60


More unfounded cult accusations, opinions treated as fact, and zero scriptural basis?

You're gonna have to do better than that if you want to deceive people away from my thread. Stop wasting my time.

reply to post by pthena


To answer your question. Yes. Why? For Judaism. Christanity is not a replacement theology. Its a rescue mission. A kludge essentially. A patch. A construct bolted on the orignal. If Christanity was a replacement theology it would be in violation of the Leviticus 26 compact.

And Jesus Christ would then be in violation of Deuteronomy 13.
1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

And Jesus Christ clarifies the issue with Matthew 5.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This is where Islam trips up. For they believe they are a replacement theology. And as such fails the Deuteronomy 13 test.

As for the rest of the questions here this is the bad part of the week for me. It's time to go ride the Steel Horse.

reply to post by ntech

It's time to go ride the Steel Horse.

I wish you a good ride.

A kludge essentially. A patch. A construct bolted on the orignal

Mark 2:21 WEB"No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, or else the patch shrinks and the new tears away from the old, and a worse hole is made. 22 No one puts new wine into old wineskins, or else the new wine will burst the skins, and the wine pours out, and the skins will be destroyed; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins.”"

The interesting thing about the Torah is that there is no mention of any desire on the god's part to have any stone temple. Stone temples were something that the people wanted in imitation of the bigger greater nations around them, just as they wanted a king. Rather, " Leviticus 26:1 “‘You shall make for yourselves no idols, neither shall you raise up an engraved image or a pillar, neither shall you place any carved stone in your land, to bow down to it:"

Am I mistaken in thinking that stone temples are carved stone? Even the Ezekiel temple violates the Torah:

Ezekiel 41:17 to the space above the door, even to the inner house, and outside, and by all the wall all around inside and outside, by measure. 18 It was carved with cherubim and palm trees; and a palm tree was between cherub and cherub, and every cherub had two faces; 19 so that there was the face of a man toward the palm tree on the one side, and the face of a young lion toward the palm tree on the other side. thus was it carved through all the house all around: 20 from the ground to above the door were cherubim and palm trees made: thus was the wall of the temple.

How would it benefit any ones cult worship of a god to built a temple that violates the god's desire for no images of things on earth or heaven or in the waters under the earth? Or did those desires change?

Perhaps Ezekiel should have been killed rather than being canonized?

The real reason I wanted to converse with you is in regards to Malachi's mention of Moses and Elijah, and the importance you place upon John the Baptist as Elijah fulfillment.

Malachi 4:4 “Remember the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded to him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Yahweh comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

It struck me that after the "transfiguration" when the disciples asked about Elijah, Jesus pretty much said that John was Elijah. Later, during the "last supper" Jesus said "do this to remember me" rather than saying anything about remembering the Law of Moses.

Replacement theology? Perhaps.