Top neurosurgeon 'spent six days in heaven' during a coma

reply to post by GafferUK1981


That is my point. You shouldn't. You should let them believe what they want to believe and leave it at that. Either way, it does not change how you feel. No reason to get bothered by what people believe when it comes to God and Religion.

I've resigned myself to explain the unusual experiences that happen in my life. Until you experience something like an NDE, ecounter of the third kind, seeing a ghost, etc......it's unbelieveable. Most people are simply just shut off to any idea that seems esoteric in nature.

It's nice though to see a person with great credentials to come out of the closet and speak about his experience. There are just too many people that experience the classic NDE to dismiss the phenomena. The neuro doctor has a great deal of courage to speak of his experience. I applaud him.

Originally posted by MarshMallow_Snake
reply to post by GafferUK1981

 

That is my point. You shouldn't. You should let them believe what they want to believe and leave it at that. Either way, it does not change how you feel. No reason to get bothered by what people believe when it comes to God and Religion.

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about Heaven and an afterlife (I'm more of a "Pascals Wager" type of guy). However, I don't see this case as evidence of an afterlife, considering the non-afterlife explanations that exist for this case.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Agreed. If there was stone hard evidence, people probably would still not believe it anyway.

I think the point of the universe, earth, humanity etc, is that we were meant to have "freewill". If God came down from heaven and said hi, then free will would to a large degree be destroyed. So instead he designed the system in showing us a clear path to follow, came down in human form to let everyone know who he was and remove the stain of sin from humans so they would have a way to enter heaven later (for those who accept Christ), but left the system in tact allowing everyone to have to exercise a measure of faith and be able to choose heaven or hell for themselves. Thus again leaving freewill in tact.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Tikiman
...If he was in a coma, that means he wasn't dead. How can someone who is still alive be in heaven? It seems to me that he was just having some realistic dreams and since he couldn't address them consciously, he simply equated it to a real experience....

Someone on here will point out to you that his neocortex showed no activity.

My answer to them can be summed up in a few points:

1. No activity in the cortex is NOT the same as being brain dead. The cortex is for higher level functions (thought and emotion, as the OP's article points out), but other brain functions were still happening.

2. Even IF the equipment hooked up to him showed no signs of activity from his cortex, there still could be activity that science does not yet understand -- activity that our equipment CANNOT detect.

3. It's also possible that once his cortex resumed activity (and before he woke up from the coma) his brain put together this dream.

edit on 10/12/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

And I agree with that. The point I was attempting to make in my own clumsy way is that the common belief among theists is that our soul leaves our bodies after we die and ventures towards heaven/hell. I just don't see how a coma stricken patient could even come close to being completely and totally dead. The myth seems to indicate that our soul must leave because our physical form can no longer support it. Am I making a straw man here? Is this true in some religions and not others? It just doesn't make much sense except to the idea of some theists picking and choosing beliefs to fit the event rather than applying same rules across the board.

Just like every other time this kind of situation comes up, the rationalists put up their best debunk of the situation and the deists/theists/spiritualists put it forward as some kind of proof. The realist comes in and says there is no proof either way... Everything else is just supposition.

However, the following is not supposition: Are any of you organ donors? If you are, think about this for a minute. The doctors will take your organs out of you when the "THINK" you are brain dead. If this guy would have been Joe Sixpack down the street they would have harvested his organs and voila - no nde to talk about.

Thanks for an intriguing article OP. S&F

Originally posted by JimmyNeutron
...The doctors will take your organs out of you when the "THINK" you are brain dead. If this guy would have been Joe Sixpack down the street they would have harvested his organs and voila - no nde to talk about.

But Dr. Alexander was NOT brain dead, nor did his doctors "THINK" he was brain dead. He was in a coma.

Granted, they could not detect activity from his neocortex, but other parts of his brain were still functioning the entire time he was in the coma.

So no -- doctors would not have pronounced a similar person in this condition as "brain dead", because it is a coma.

really??? this is a top topic. How sad

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Tikiman
...If he was in a coma, that means he wasn't dead. How can someone who is still alive be in heaven? It seems to me that he was just having some realistic dreams and since he couldn't address them consciously, he simply equated it to a real experience....

Someone on here will point out to you that his neocortex showed no activity.

My answer to them can be summed up in a few points:

1. No activity in the cortex is NOT the same as being brain dead. The cortex is for higher level functions (thought and emotion, as the OP's article points out), but other brain functions were still happening.

2. Even IF the equipment hooked up to him showed no signs of activity from his cortex, there still could be activity that science does not yet understand -- activity that our equipment CANNOT detect.

3. It's also possible that once his cortex resumed activity (and before he woke up from the coma) his brain put together this dream.

edit on 10/12/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, I just want to add something.
In his hour long interview he describes this "reality" that he found himself in, to be "hyper real". He says it felt more real than life itself, seeing indescribable colours etc.
Even the most vivid of dreams you wake up from soon become a forgettable cloudy haze.
I just find the whole story incredibly intriguing because of this guy being a neuroscientist, the lack of brain activity, the profoundness of his experience etc.

I ignore NDE stories if they are infused with contemporary religious words and opinions and I make no exception in the case of this doctor. Its my opinion that he made poor choices in using descriptors like heaven and angels and as a result his story is too colored by his pre-concieved beliefs on the afterlife to be taken as evidence.

He could have used many other words in place of them, but I think he sprinkled them in there knowing it would taint a pure playback of what he claimed to witness to increase book sales in a predominantly Christian nation in which it will be sold.

reply to post by Frith


I completely agree. There is no god but if there were surely it would be smart enough to know this guy would survive and therefore would not have let him into heaven anyway.

It's just a book selling exercise

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Well, what if there is a God and this happens because God wants more people to believe and not fear dying?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
He's a neurosurgeon, which means he studies extensively the mind and its affects and coma's and so forth.
Id say he's studied it so much it was the first thing his brain thought of when it went into default!
Heaven?... its a mental thing. His mind just went to its own interpretation of heaven!

Spoken like someone who has no experience in OBE's whatsoever.

Originally posted by Frith
I ignore NDE stories if they are infused with contemporary religious words and opinions and I make no exception in the case of this doctor. Its my opinion that he made poor choices in using descriptors like heaven and angels and as a result his story is too colored by his pre-concieved beliefs on the afterlife to be taken as evidence.

He could have used many other words in place of them, but I think he sprinkled them in there knowing it would taint a pure playback of what he claimed to witness to increase book sales in a predominantly Christian nation in which it will be sold.

This is the same thing I thought. I tend to give more credence to NDE's and OBE's that don't, by virtue of how they are described, instantly lend credence to one particular religious ideology.

As a child, I remember walking through a bookstore in my hometown and seeing a book entitled "Seven Minutes in Hell." (Or something similar). At the time, I was being raised Roman Catholic and, as my curiosity got the better of me, I perused the book. The story scared the ever-living hell out of me (pardon the pun and word choice, but don't know how else to word it). I was convinced, in reading his words, that I was going to go to hell right then, right there.

Now, a few years ago ('07 or '08), I remember picking up a book called "23 Minutes in Hell" at another bookstore. This time, as I read it, I found the story interesting but no more frightening than the average horror movie. The only scary part was that it was filed under "Nonfiction."

That, right there, is the problem. Both books, both stories, are written BY Christians, FOR Christians, IN a Christian heavy nation. As a result, they are classified as "Nonfiction" in order to appease the sensitive religious sensibilities of many Christians. If someone wants to convince me, a Deist who puts as much faith in the bible as I do in the writings of Stephanie Meyer, then find me a book like that (about heaven or hell) written by someone who doesn't have a lifetime of Christian mythology and imagery to build upon. Find me someone who talks about seeing angels but had never heard of them prior.

I saw this guy on "I survived Beyond and Back" on the Biography channel. It quickly became one of my favorite shows, I strongly advise checking it out (its different from "I survived"). The people on this show vary in background, age, race, etc., but all of them describe a feeling of love during their NDE and many of them come back no longer fearful of death and determined to change their lives to help their fellow man.

Originally posted by phillyhemp
I saw this guy on "I survived Beyond and Back" on the Biography channel. It quickly became one of my favorite shows, I strongly advise checking it out (its different from "I survived"). The people on this show vary in background, age, race, etc., but all of them describe a feeling of love during their NDE and many of them come back no longer fearful of death and determined to change their lives to help their fellow man.

I LOVE that show!
There was one episode where this lady found herself at a table with what she called E.T.s!
It is a very eye-opening program, for sure.

From the length of time (7days) and the fact that the whole thing felt real to him cannot be explained by just a phase that the brain goes under when shutting down or deprived of O2

Originally posted by SinMaker
I've resigned myself to explain the unusual experiences that happen in my life. Until you experience something like an NDE, ecounter of the third kind, seeing a ghost, etc......it's unbelieveable. Most people are simply just shut off to any idea that seems esoteric in nature.

It's nice though to see a person with great credentials to come out of the closet and speak about his experience. There are just too many people that experience the classic NDE to dismiss the phenomena. The neuro doctor has a great deal of courage to speak of his experience. I applaud him.

Why do you suppose it is that most people are simply just shut off to esoteric ideas ? Its probably because most people live their entire lives never having any kind of experience like this. I am 55 and I do not know one person who claims to have seen a ghost or had a NDE or any kind of paranormal experience of any kind what so ever. It is for this reason that most people do not believe in such things. And I do mean MOST people do not believe in this stuff.

There really are not a lot of people who claim NDE experiences. Of all the people who have traumatic accidents where they are unconscious the precentage who claim meeting dead relatives or seeing heaven are so small as to be inconsequencial. One would think there would be many many more reports of this considering how many people die every day and how many people come close to death every day. One would think that this experience if true would have many many more people experiencing it and talking about it. Why is it only a handful of people make these claims?

Originally posted by Fineousstitch
really??? this is a top topic. How sad

Everyones a critic of other peoples lives and how they spend their time. Thats truly sad.