Top neurosurgeon 'spent six days in heaven' during a coma

As much as I want to or used to believe him, I think some people are right. How do they know that this didn't occur when he was starting to wake up from the coma or when he was going in to the coma? "Dreams" or whatever you want to call it can seem to last forever even though it lasts a very short while so they couldn't have detected it.

Originally posted by mac420
reply to post by CaptainBeno

 

Wow all the evidence he put forth really made me believe in god again and worship jesus! All praise jeebus!

From Dawkins I know the Human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucinations. He's a neurosurgeon, he should realize when your neo cortex is deactivated, you have no concept of anything. Besides, someone word of a comatose state is not proof of anything except a vivid imagination.

From the prophet Dawkins and his religious view of science (and a part where he decides what can be proven in science). You shall not belive in what I think is (I qoute) Mumbo Jumbo. I have a problem with the duality driven people of any faith. Be that the Christian fundamentalist or Dawkins. He say he is open minded but I have not seen much proof in his programs that always pushes the most extreme example of something outside the box. I would have been on his side 2 years ago and shared his beliefs. Fortunaly I experianced things that proves that he is wrong and unfortunaly have not experianced enought. But maybe Dawkins will at least listen to reason when proof comes while I am unsure the Christian fundametalist will.

Last night I had a dream about the ultimate truth, there was no heaven, no sky wizard was portrayed by pop culture, instead it was a solid beam of noodly goodness.

My book will be coming out at the end of the year be sure to pick it up to discover all the secrets of the universe. It's Titled: Special Sauce; The Noodleggedon.

I have to add that although I believe there is an agenda and a cashing in on the story there is also the believability of the story itself. As some have pointed out, we should be discussing the validity of "Heaven".
Some have suggested that the good doctor was dreaming which is well and good but there is a major difference between dreaming and a lucid experience. One factor is it is very similar to our known day to day existence where as a dream state is usually sketchy and leaves people with an over whelming emotion such as anger, fear, betrayal, etc. Dreams aren't as vivid as an NDE or OBE, people in these states can report massive amounts of information about what they have seen and experienced right down to word for word conversations and a definite recognition of the people they have met.
The fact that this guy is a neurosurgeon shouldn't bring anymore weight to the story in my opinion. The weight is that he was monitored for brain activity during his coma which loosely points to there being a place after death. Unfortunately as suggested by others this state could have been achieved during his recovery period from his coma, from my experience time is hugely distorted during these states of mind and a few minutes can feel like a few hours or even longer but our reality is no different really. We have time distortion all the time and probably every person on earth has experienced it at one time or another, a good one to think of is how fast time has gone and having the feeling that something in your life "feels like it happened yesterday" or how slow time goes when watching a clock or when you are in a situation that makes you more aware of the passing of time such as school or work.

There are so many out in the world that have experiences but have gone down the road of trying to cash in on it as much as they possibly can.
One that comes to mind: www.youtube.com...

Not that I doubt her story or her ability, I do however disagree that this person should charge thousands of dollars to be commissioned as an artist. Ultimately I believe that the messages and help that one can deliver from having an experience of this type should be free and accessible to everyone not those that have the most money or can afford in this day and age to run and buy a book.
So in essence I believe this doctor had a profound and life changing experience that he feels should be shared but I disagree with the capitalizing that goes along with it. For many people this diminishes the validity of the story which directly affects its impact on the world.
Some have suggested that the doctor is already wealthy and has a stable financial situation, that's awesome but don't underestimate the effect Greed can have on a person. I also pointed out in an earlier post that he has hooked up with the Monroe Institute which is why I believe there is a book deal, I'm sure the sales will benefit the institute as well as him. I also believe there is an agenda that is being pushed behind the scenes by the institute to monopolize on the situation. So maybe he isn't greedy and is being directed along this path by others, only those involved will know the truth of it but from the outside looking in there is a money grab happening.

I know there is no god but let's pretend I don't for a second.

If you go to heaven when you die surely an omnipotent and omniscient god would know he wasn't dead and would not let him into heaven.

Did he even mention St. Peter and the pearly gates or is that religious notion not believed anymore?

reply to post by GafferUK1981

I know there is no god but let's pretend I don't for a second.

Quite frankly, that's impossible. No one knows that.

If you go to heaven when you die surely an omnipotent and omniscient god would know he wasn't dead and would not let him into heaven.

That's based on a human understanding, which is, needless to say, not the most reliable. Kind of a catch-22.

Did he even mention St. Peter and the pearly gates or is that religious notion not believed anymore?

Why are you so hostile toward the man's experience? All he's doing is telling a story that a lot of people want to hear, and you're acting as though it's a personal attack on everything you fold dear - which doesn't make sense, considering you don't even believe in a higher power.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Well given that there is no evidence indicate that there is a god and it is quite frankly a ridiculous and delusional notion I can confidently say there is no god.

There isn't a teapot orbiting between the earth and mars but do you know for sure there isn't?

Originally posted by GafferUK1981
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Well given that there is no evidence indicate that there is a god and it is quite frankly a ridiculous and delusional notion I can confidently say there is no god.

So hang on, you know the meaning of existence and have all the answers that even science can't yet explain. Awesome, can you please write a book about it and put us out of our misery?
When I look up at the night sky and into the vastness of space I wonder why and how. For me that is enough to say "I don't know and I'm much smaller than what I am apart of", not I know for sure about this and that. Frankly that is being delusional.
Edit: I respect your opinion and that you are allowed to have one but please don't state it as fact and proceed to label those that have a differing view as delusional and ridiculous.

reply to post by Rellix


I don't know the answers but that's what being an atheist is all about. When we don't know the answer to a question we want to know the answer.

What religious people do when they don't know the answer to a question is to say god did it. I find that a very lazy and vastly incorrect mindset. It is a two thousand year old way of thinking that doesn't apply anymore.

Science has constantly proved religious statements to be wrong, effectively pushing god back. How far does science have to push god back before people realise god isn't there at all. I believe that I like other atheists have found out there is no god before everybody else discovers it too.

reply to post by GafferUK1981

Well given that there is no evidence indicate that there is a god and it is quite frankly a ridiculous and delusional notion I can confidently say there is no god.

There isn't a teapot orbiting between the earth and mars but do you know for sure there isn't?

I think there is a teapot out there, actually. Can you prove me wrong?

Regardless, there's no reason to ridicule the doctor...what he experienced, according to his account, was just as real to him as your computer is to you.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


No I can't prove it to you. Maybe you can help me.

How is one supposed to prove that something that isn't there isn't there?

Don't you think the burden of proof should be on the believer not the non believer?

reply to post by GafferUK1981


Fair enough, I also agree some religious people are very lazy or led blindly into believing what someone else has put forward to them. There are those that are seekers of truth that believe in God but are not led blindly but instead seek out the truth for themselves. How is this any different from what an Atheist does?
Science and religion should be working hand in hand and both sides need to give and take but alas the world is driven by money and greed. Mostly everything we have discovered with science has been to not only benefit humankind but to also benefit the pocket of the investors. If there is no money in something then it gets kicked to the back regardless of how much of an impact it may have. This hasn't happened in every case but in most cases in relation to scientific discovery.

The problem here is we need to agree to disagree and get on with finding the truth regardless of opinions. In relation to this topic of discussion, I think our opinions are irrelevant as there is no real way to prove or disprove the existence of heaven which is what makes the case a little unique, no?

Scientifically no evidence of brain activity but a personal experience of the person while in a coma that suggests he may have been dreaming with a complete shutdown of the brain in that area.

Originally posted by ldyserenity
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Can you explain what FSP-ing is?
I know it has something to do with computers right? But I really don't understand that term.

He answered this already but it's First Person Shooters, or pretty much any video game were your perspective is basically eye view, and not third person view such as having the camera behind you and you see the character that you control run around in the video world.

In a way consciousness and the things you perceive and see are like that, and even in FPS games or really any games be they racing or adventure games, the fact is that the world is first created, then a focus point ie a character is interjected into that world and when you play the game you explore the world from that point of view, but in reality its just a small part of the over all thing.

In fact from what I remember some of the older racing games basically what they did is they build frame by frame models of the racing circuit then the made model of the car, and then the world/racing circuit was basically kind of like an animation flip book, it was thrust at your viewpoint frame by frame. In reality the car you were using never actually went anywhere, it was always in the same place and you could only make it go side to side and such. And then the whole world was just basically put/thrust before your eyes, thereby giving the illusion that you were moving and going forward.

Literally like the animation flip books people draw with stick figures, in fact everything is pretty much like that an illusion.

Originally posted by DesdamonaPink
I'm a long-time lurker on this site, and this is my first comment. I just watched the entire Bioethics Forum video here: www.btci.org...

Interesting and here I thought it would be another fluffy cloud thing. I may have to start reading the threads I post in.

That was a more detailed description then what was in original in the op, and what that dude saw/experienced and went through. It was something that was accumulative and not just something that happened one day, though it did sort of happen one day. Interesting that he would see his long lost dead sister and that she would be the medium, or angel, or whatever they call it, and even more interesting that she would have butterfly wings, but I suppose to each there own preferred style.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


What a fascinating story !!

Dr Alexander, a neurosurgeon, has an extraordinary experience and has decided to share it. There's an interesting read on Newsweek, explaining why he decided to come forward, why he decided to write a book, both those steps being against the mainstream motion of his own profession.

Heaven Is Real: A Doctor’s Experience With the Afterlife

4 very enjoyable pages. But I find this particular part extremely interesting, as it talks of questions we all face, at one point or another, in our lives: (On page 3)

Who am I?

Why am I here?

While he tries to explain, as he finds it hard to put it into words, I do enjoy this part very much:

What happened to me demands explanation.

Modern physics tells us that the universe is a unity—that it is undivided. Though we seem to live in a world of separation and difference, physics tells us that beneath the surface, every object and event in the universe is completely woven up with every other object and event. There is no true separation.

Before my experience these ideas were abstractions. Today they are realities. Not only is the universe defined by unity, it is also—I now know—defined by love. The universe as I experienced it in my coma is—I have come to see with both shock and joy—the same one that both Einstein and Jesus were speaking of in their (very) different ways.

Not only is the universe defined by unity, it is also - I now know - defined by love.

Dr Alexander, Welcome to the Club !!

S&F.

When science makes a great discovery, people treat science as God, yet when a top man of science claims to have seen heaven all the skeptics say he is full of it.

Can't have it both ways folks, cant pick and choose what science dishes out.

I've been listening to an interview and I found out they are and have been very good friends with a lady author who reaches out to clients in the psychic realm.

So, this is not coming from a pristine vacuum.

I am now of the opinion this incident was very much influenced by their family's life experience

reply to post by Alxandro


BOOM! You said what I was thinking. Thank you.

I'm a resident at an academic hospital and I can tell you guys this.

Many top surgeons were not the smartest people in medical school. They just have the best memory which allowed them to pass exams and the best dexterity which allow them to perform surgery well.

Many of them will FAIL miserably in engineering which requires logic and critical thinking. I was a biomedical engineer and the skills required in engineering has propelled me beyond most of my peers many of whom were Christians, Muslims, and Hindus.

Doctor != Logical person.

reply to post by CaptainBeno

And more food for thought for you....My brother is a doctor AND wrote a book on a similar subject. It's on the shelf at your local bookstore. It took YEARS for it to get written and published. He was busy still being a doctor. He isn't in it for the money. However, the money he has made has gone to opening a hospital in a third world country, which he works at every few months. Doctors see things, and hear stories from their patients that would make you think twice about thinking there is "nothing " after you die. They don't talk about it because people scoff and think they are nuts. Not the best career move. Just like pilots not reporting things they see as well. All these arguments and logic against the possibility of that there IS something more make my point. Realizing there IS something more isn't easy. Actually, it's much more difficult. If you haven't experienced it, you wouldn't know, now would you? I believe that's the point the doc is trying to make.