A Muhammad Cartoon A Day

Originally posted by Sinny
My family are Roman Catholics, and I stood in the town center for nearly 2 bloody hours the other month allowing an Islamic preacher to convert me to Islam!! It was just an education tour for my self, although he was pretty pleased I stayed there that long aha.

He was probably more surprised at a non muslim in Birmingham.

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by Hefficide

 

When they stop killing people and burning down embassies over pictures like that, then they and their religion may earn my respect... dont see it happenin though.

And once again we have the all-encompassing "THEY".

Who are "they" exactly? Brown people? People who wear headdress? People with beards? People who are extremists? Or are we just talking about ALL MUSLIMS EVERYWHERE!?

Extremism by a minority is breeding extremism by a majority, and the west is the majority in this instance.

Plenty of people here are deciding that all Muslims believe the same, that they are all responsible for the attacks on embassies and the deaths of innocent people.

The fact of the matter is that these are minorities, being dictated to and controlled by a select group of Islamic extremists. People in the west are being duped and controlled, manipulated into believing that this is all Islam is about.

You're attacking an entire group of people based on the actions of a small minority.

The worst part about this is that so many are too ignorant to see their own ignorance.

Having the freedom to do or say something does not automatically make it moral or right to do so.

reply to post by ollncasino

The issue is whether we are allowed to criticize what they believe.

Radical Muslims believe we are not, under threat of death.

Here is the meat of the issue. They may criticize everything everyone else believes in, but if anyone criticizes what they believe and scrutinize it they will have hell to pay.

Islam is not even a religion, it's just Sharia Law. It's an enormous political entity, and an empire that recognizes no borders and only it's own laws and wherever they spread they try to install their own elements into government so they can slowly shift that nations laws to Sharia, in effect spoonfeeding the indigenous population bits of Sharia at a time, much like how you tame animals by giving them tiny bits of food to get them used to you just before you slip the noose around their necks. This is what they do, they move in, breed like rabbits and in 20 years 1 million of them turn into 20 million, until the indengenous peoples have become small minorities and then they drop the axe. It's like boiling a frog in water, put a frog in a pan of water and set it to simmer, and the frog will never know it's being cooked alive, it's the same concept.

Key example, 2 atheists play dressup last year as zombie Muhammad and zombie Jesus, and a muslim sees the atheist as zombie Muhammad and beats his ass. It goes to court, the judge being a muslim himself throws the assault and battery case out and tells the atheist "in muslim lands you would be killed". The rights of the man who was assaulted are denied, the case is thrown out and there is no justice for the infidel. So in essence we are getting a preview to what is coming. What kind of moronic people are going to lay down in front of a bomber when it starts dropping carpet bombs? Why the western civilzation will, ofcourse, because they refuse to acknowledge the threat that has alreadybegun to slowly conquer them. Take a look at France and Great Brittain, Charles Martel stopped Islam's advance, and skip ahead 1000 years and they've gone passed what he achieved. They use time like a weapon, while everyone else forgets, they remember and they slowly keep advancing. Europe doesn't know it yet but theyre already conquered.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


What is so difficult to understand about this?
What Hitler did to Jews was NOT done in the name of Jesus!

It was done in the name of so called "racial supremacy", nothing more.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
If and when this is done to Christians, do you also think "it's about time we stood up to those Christian bullies"? Or does it become, "why are they always picking on Christians"? Or "Christians/Christianity under attack" - which we see so many thread about lately.

You're singling out the extremists in Islam to justify showing intolerance to their religion. Intolerance breeds intolerance.

edit on 2-10-2012 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)

"If and when"? I know you're not new here, but are you blind? How many times per day...hell per hour...is Christianity or Christians attacked on ATS alone? How many times per second is God called a "fairy in the sky"? Afterwards, how many have rioted and murdered people for the simple act of existing? (crickets chirping)

And you're half-right, the author of the article is singling out the extremists (I just re-posted it). That's what this is about, extremists.

Maybe read the whole thing next time.

/TOA

Originally posted by Hefficide

I've been watching these threads now for four solid years waiting to see the words "You do realize that by exercising OUR freedom of speech we're trampling on THEIR freedom to believe what they believe".

I've yet to see that post. If it ever happened, I missed it.

America has learned this strange distortion of the word "freedom" so that it now means "You are free to do what we say and you'll call it freedom and you'll like it or we'll bomb you".

That's not freedom. That's extremism, totalitarianism, despotism, and value projection.

Free means free - not just free to agree with what we say.

~Heff

Well said, Heff.

"Free" also means being able to say that Muhammad was a pedophile, Yahweh is an imaginary fairy, and Indian cows taste best wrapped in bacon, all without fear of having your head chopped off or your entire street blown up.

/TOA

reply to post by Hefficide


Ahh, I get what you're saying. "When they stop killing and burning we'll stop killing and burning." is bad. So, if we stop killing and burning, and they don't stop, then _____________.

Fill in the blank so we can all be awed.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by BellaSabre

 

These debates seem to always become absolutist in nature. The two sides polarize and compromise becomes impossible because the preconceptions are so deeply entrenched, by all, that mediation dissolves.

Heff, don't you think it's a tad bit lopsided when the compromise is "OK, we'll stop drawing lines on paper with ink if you'll stop mass murdering people.

/TOA

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

What is so difficult to understand about this?
What Hitler did to Jews was NOT done in the name of Jesus!

It was done in the name of so called "racial supremacy", nothing more.

And his racial supremacy included the prominant religion of his race. He often claimed he was doing the work of God. His hatred of the Jews stemmed from his extremist religous beliefs. It was very much an attempt at killing in the name of Jesus, although Jesus would in no way support what was done. This shows the minds of religious extremists whether they be Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Here are some quotes for ...I would say YOUR enjoyment, but I know others will enjoy them much more:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...

- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922


Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.

- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

In fact, he sounded a whole heck of a lot like the extremist republicans today that claim they are Christian but their actions show they are far from it. He was a religious terrorist, the extremist republicans are religious terrorists just like the terrorists on the other side who happen to be Muslim. There's no difference. If you are an extremist in any religion, you quickly stop following the religion and start following your hatred instead.

What he did WAS because of his religion. The ideas of racial supremacy were because of his religion. It was all because of his religion. Not REAL Chrisitanity, but the type that the fundamentalist evangelicals on the extreme right follow today. He was a terrorist, they are terrorists.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by kingofmd


Let's have a competition, since all of these groups are alike. Starting today, we will tally how many people are killed, and by which faith as their motivating factor. I will be nice and take the Christians, Mormons, and Jews. You get the Muslims. Whoever's number is the highest by Friday wins, and has to delete their ATS account, never posting again.

Technically, you can't take both Christians and Jews since the Jews are the ones the Christians killed the most of.... just sayin...

Hitler was Christian, killed a LOT of Jews in the Holocaust, so you'll probably lose the bet you've made.


....then there were the holy wars of the middle ages, downright ugly there....

Extremists of any religion are dangerous, they are terrorists as they kill others in the name of their belief system. The difference is, those Christians who did that aren't "real Christians" in my book, neither are all the ultra-right wing bigots, but they sure do claim to be.
Most Muslims wouldn't consider their terrorists as representing their religion either, it's just the opposing side that does.

edit on 3-10-2012 by PurpleChiten because: (no reason given)

Apparently not being able to read gets one stars for their posts.
What part of starting today did you miss? As for the lie that Hitler was a Christian, perhaps you could point me to the verses that talk about an arian supreme race in the bible. Hitler was inspired by Helena Blavatsky, a new age nut job that most on ATS admire. The swastika, eagles, hatred of Jews, removal of bibles from schools had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Get your facts straight, you and the 3 geniuses that starred your post.

reply to post by The Old American


According to the Muslims WE are the mass murderers. And they have a pretty strong case for their argument. In all honesty, it's us bombing their countries and using their religious intolerance as a justification.

I have yet to encounter a Muslim here who has done anything wrong to me.

But, hey, free speech for us trumps sovereignty and religious self-determination for them.

All this hyperbole about Shia law and the great evil of Islam gets boring. And the hypocrisy used in the argument, on both sides, is even more so. This is more and more becoming the American way... to preach that we can do what we want in our own house - and rant about that freedom like fanatics.... all while using force to make our neighbors do what WE want in THEIR homes.

Hypocrisy, hyperbole, propaganda, extremism... All abhorrent to common sense.

~Heff

Originally posted by kingofmd


Apparently not being able to read gets one stars for their posts.
What part of starting today did you miss? As for the lie that Hitler was a Christian, perhaps you could point me to the verses that talk about an arian supreme race in the bible. Hitler was inspired by Helena Blavatsky, a new age nut job that most on ATS admire. The swastika, eagles, hatred of Jews, removal of bibles from schools had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Get your facts straight, you and the 3 geniuses that starred your post.

WRONG!
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...

- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

2 hours ago: www.cnn.com...

11 hours ago: www.phillyburbs.com...

1 hour ago: www.nytimes.com...

well, 57 so far, to zero. I guess you're losing your bet.

...what's that you say? Just because they're Muslims doesn't mean that Christianity as a whole killed them?? Just because the people who killed them happen to be Christian doesn't mean that all Christians do that? Oh wait, that's what people have been telling you about not all Muslims represent the actions of the few who are terrorists.
Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Christians turn the other cheek!! It's in their teaching!!

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Not that I'm on either side of this particular specific debate, but Hitler practiced "positive Christianity" which is much like militia Christianity, seeing Jesus as a fighter rather than a peacemaker. Furthermore, by 1940----when most of the killing was done----he had abandoned his efforts to promote "positive Christianity" and just let the whole thing go, for the most part, and even started persecuting Christian churches, particularly Catholics.

What Hitler practiced is much the same as what Wahabbists and fundie Muslims practice: a bastardization of the religion which does not represent the majority of that religion's followers.

However, one could argue that in the exact same way, we fight against the fundie Muslims, not the ones who will have no issue with insults and pictures. The attack is not on ordinary Muslims, because they will have no reason to feel attacked, not having a murderous issue with pictures. Just like when attacking Hitler's "Christianity", regular Christians won't feel offended or attacked because they know their beliefs are far, far from Hitler's.

Originally posted by 00nunya00
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Not that I'm on either side of this particular specific debate, but Hitler practiced "positive Christianity" which is much like militia Christianity, seeing Jesus as a fighter rather than a peacemaker. Furthermore, by 1940----when most of the killing was done----he had abandoned his efforts to promote "positive Christianity" and just let the whole thing go, for the most part, and even started persecuting Christian churches, particularly Catholics.

What Hitler practiced is much the same as what Wahabbists and fundie Muslims practice: a bastardization of the religion which does not represent the majority of that religion's followers.

However, one could argue that in the exact same way, we fight against the fundie Muslims, not the ones who will have no issue with insults and pictures. The attack is not on ordinary Muslims, because they will have no reason to feel attacked, not having a murderous issue with pictures. Just like when attacking Hitler's "Christianity", regular Christians won't feel offended or attacked because they know their beliefs are far, far from Hitler's.

edit on 3-10-2012 by 00nunya00 because: (no reason given)

I don't know, after the last quote I read, I'm really starting to wonder. It sounds identical to some of the things we see posted on facebook by the fundamentalists who mix their politics and religion

Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.

- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by BellaSabre

 

Freedom of speech is such an inherently and fundamentally necessary thing that the Framers made it the FIRST Amendment. This was done deliberately, wisely, and with much implied meaning.

So of course it is important.

But what folks seem to lose track of, for some reason, is the same amendment, the FIRST amendment also grants freedom of religion.

Now we have conflict. Which right has more merit? Both speech and religion are the most sincere and deepest forms of self expression. Does one trump the other?


~Heff

You said this in your first post as well. What it implies is that the Mohammed cartoons, or the movie, or whatever insult towards Islam or Mohammed you so choose (i.e. freedom of speech), somehow infringes upon the freedom to be a Muslim.

I do not understand this line of thought at all.

reply to post by UdonNiedtuno


I was replying in an American-centric manner to an abstract in that post. Obviously the reality is that none of it applies to Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc. as our Constitution, beliefs, and culture are not theirs.

My intent was to address the notion that freedom of speech, lately, seems to be used as grounds to argue against religion - something that is also covered in the first amendment. They are equally as protected here. In this country.

Later posts addressed the irrationality of imposing our own set of values upon other nations or peoples through the same sort of prism that allowed us to rationalize "manifest destiny".

When hoardes of Islamic fundamentalists start storming American cities or institutions? Then we'll have a basis for conversing along American-centric lines. Until then? Well we're just rationalizing American Imperialism.

~Heff