Romney TORTURE Memo Leaked

In one of his first acts, President Obama issued an executive order restricting interrogators to a list of nonabusive tactics approved in the Army Field Manual. Even as he embraced a hawkish approach to other counterterrorism issues — like drone strikes, military commissions, indefinite detention and the Patriot Act — Mr. Obama has stuck to that strict no-torture policy.

By contrast, Mr. Romney’s advisers have privately urged him to “rescind and replace President Obama’s executive order” and permit secret “enhanced interrogation techniques against high-value detainees that are safe, legal and effective in generating intelligence to save American lives,” according to an internal Romney campaign memorandum.

“Waterboarding is torture,” Mr. Obama said in November. “It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals. That’s not who we are. That’s not how we operate. We don’t need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. And we did the right thing by ending that practice. If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example.”

Mr. Bradbury, who declined to comment, was one of 18 lawyers on the Romney campaign’s national security law subcommittee when its “Interrogation Techniques” paper was circulated.

The list also included Michael Chertoff, the former homeland security secretary; Cully Stimson, the Pentagon’s detainee policy chief; and many other Bush-era executive branch veterans: Bradford Berenson, Elliot S. Berke, Todd F. Braunstein, Gus P. Coldebella, Jimmy Gurule, Richard D. Klingler, Ramon Martinez, Brent J. McIntosh, John C. O’Quinn, John J. Sullivan, Michael Sullivan and Alex Wong. Three others — Lee A. Casey, Maureen E. Mahoney and David B. Rivkin Jr. — served in earlier Republican administrations.

www.nytimes.com...

Torture does not work not to mention it is horrible immoral and a violation of human rights. So the bottom line is to "rescind Obama's executive order." Bringing back the old Bush / Cheney ways of dealing with situations. Those really worked out great.

www.documentcloud.org...

reply to post by RealSpoke
Using more extreme torture methods devalues the reputation of the country using them. It also sends the message that the means justifies the ends and that anything goes.

Is Romney hoping to save American lives by using torture on other people? How do most Americans feel about US troops being tortured in the Vietnam war? How do they feel about allied troops being tortured by the Taliban?

I was just searching for examples of torture of US or UK soldiers and link after link after link referenced US/UK torture of their own captives. It looks like we have a worse reputation for torture than the poorly-trained, badly-armed, uneducated religious fundamentalists! I feel like I've just been reality-checked...

Even the Nazis learned that torture was useless. Sad to see the GOP picked someone that refuses to learn from the past.

reply to post by RealSpoke


Torture should not be part of a civilised society. You do not have to become a monster to fight a monster. Really I think most people would say anything under torture. Its sad to see things like the Geneva convention disregarded with a few slippery words. Things like that where put there for reasons. To try and stop the past from repeating itself.

time and time again studies have shown torture to be ineffective,
any one of us who were tortured would before long at all give them
anything they wanted to stop, even if that means telling lies just
to get it to stop.

but there again this coming from the party that brought us the now
infamous a woman's body can simply reject sperm from rape....
they simply seem to not understand the fundamentals of life at
all, and its the pro life party! lol wow

reply to post by RealSpoke

Originally posted by RealSpoke
Bringing back the old Bush / Cheney ways of dealing with situations. Those really worked out great.

Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office. One of the consequences was that it improved our relationship with the rest of the world. I know just the mention of improving our "relationship with the world" leaves many with a bad taste in their mouths, as if doing something to "improve relationships" is a wussy and weak thing to do. But that is reality, according to the Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld point of view.

With all the Bosh-era advisers Romney is employing, I think it's naive and even ignorant not to assume we will go BACK to the policies of that terrible time. And with Romney's economic plan of lowering taxes on himself and his buddies, the economy will tank again, with no hope of recovery.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want this country to go backwards. I don't want to re-hash the failed policies of the Bush administration.

Torture doesn't work and it's inhumane. It's NOT something civilized people should do to their fellow Earth inhabitants. It's insane to think that we'd be safe if Romney gets into office.

Are we really that surprised though? Come on, it was a Republican president that decided is was okay. All that has changed is the face of the organization.

Obama has a group of people he listens to, Romney has a group of people he listens to. We know for a fact that the Republican party is more inclined to adopt violence in any way they feel it will get them something. This has been shown again and again. That's the nature of a right-wing government.

None of this surprises me at all. If America elects a Republican president you will go backwards in many ways. And this is from someone who dislikes both parties and thinks they are both controlled by their corporate interests - Obama is most definitely the better of two evils until the people create something new to replace them both.

I'm anti-torture. I think said Executive Order was a great idea.

That being said...

Does anybody really think that we're not still torturing people?

No surprise here, What do you expect from the neocon mormon? He has the same advisors as Bush; Obama kept many of the same type of advisors and the same economic policy... Is it any surprise we got pretty much the same results?

When a country tortures and carry out "preemptive" wars then they have lost the moral high ground and don't have the moral authority to claim so!

I think Israel and the Jewish people are a good example... Since WWII they seem to be militarized as a religion which to me indicates that Hitler altered the Jewish faith forever..... like it or not!

Originally posted by subject x


Does anybody really think that we're not still torturing people?

Bingo...
nope I don't

I also don't think there's
a difference between the
Dems & Reps either

A lot of well versed post above me, Let me break it down to Laymans terms.

We are supposed to be the Good Guys.

This very thing, Torture, is part of the Reason we are over there.

A lot of well versed post above me, Let me break it down to Laymans terms.

We are supposed to be the Good Guys.

This very thing, Torture, is part of the Reason we are over there.

reply to post by RealSpoke


It's no surprise to me. Hell, in one way or another, Romney has been torturing the american people most of his adult life. Just listening to the stupid crap that comes out of his mouth daily is torture enough.

F&S for the OP!

This should come as no surprise considering the number of Bushies running or advising the Romney campaign.

It's still surreal.

It's like we can't escape our Orwellian destiny, no matter who is POTUS.

reply to post by RealSpoke


THe only reason we knew there was torture was because it came into light. Just because they say they won't torture doesn't mean they will actually stop. Governments lies.... even if Obama isn't lieing... its not like obama has direct control of everything our military and intelligence agencies do. HOw much is not kept from him like it is from our representatives under the guise of national security.

I do not even know why people spend the time ragging on particular parties when the reality is that they both screw us over but people do not seem to get that. They think that if they stick to their tribe through thick and thin ignoring all the bs they spout it will change america.

It won't all you do is egg on their control and manipulation by the 2 headed 1 party system.

Bloods and crips .. enjoy your gang activity

Where are all the obama leaks?

Oh, this thread is too rich...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office.

A pretty meaningless accomplishment, when you can simply assume the intelligence you might suspect and just KILL the person, including American citizens without judicial due process:

Obama's Kill List

...or presume their guilt by virtue of their geographic proximity to other presumed terrorists:

U.S. Drone Policy: Standing Near Terrorists Makes You A Terrorist

Obama, Becker and Shane write, was angry when informed that the first drone strike after he took office had killed innocent Pakistanis. But one of the measures the administration embraced to prevent future innocent casualties was to embrace a method of counting combatants that would rope in more innocents.

"It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent," the Times reports. "Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good."

...or detain a person indefinitely without due process:

Obama wins right to indefinitely detain Americans under NDAA

...or just convince most people you've eliminated torture, by removing one type of it (water-boarding), while still heavily engaging in other types of it:

Torture under Obama

and:

ACLU trashes Obama over indefinite detention and torture act

****************

Yeah, I'm real glad Obama offers an alternative to the approaches outlined by these mere advisers to Romney (he hasn't actually said this would be his position yet).

Just think how much worse off we would be...

Que the "but Obama is WORSE" and "torture isnt really THAT bad" posts in 3...2...1...

but I digress. This comes as no shock. The GOP is very pro "war on terror", even if it means becoming terrorists themselves.

reply to post by RealSpoke

“Waterboarding is torture,” Mr. Obama said in November. “It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals. That’s not who we are. That’s not how we operate. We don’t need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. And we did the right thing by ending that practice. If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example

Thats actually one more thing that I agree with Obama about, the only other thing is his stance against Israel.
A lot of people have said that torture doesnt work because after a while, the prisoner will tell you anything you want to hear, whether its the truth or not.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Que the "but Obama is WORSE"

I see.

So it makes more sense to worry about what a candidate *might* do, rather than address the *actual* things an incumbent does, which pale in comparison to the first concern?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
and "torture isnt really THAT bad" posts in 3...2...1...

No. It is *that* bad. As all of the rest of what I outlined above.

But because *your* guy does it, most of you will give him a pass.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The GOP is very pro "war on terror", even if it means becoming terrorists themselves.

You need to read more.