WTH PEOPLE? seriously??

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

I have read some stories from that part of the world, and have some idea, but a lot of people don't understand how dangerous disagreeing with such a person can be. Frankly, I am appalled that he was allowed to speak at the United nations.

To understand that kind of ruthlessness as an american or decendant of english, welsh or irish, just imagine Edward Longshanks or...Vlad Dracul. Ain't much changed in that region over the last 1300 years, the kind of merciless behavior that allows a man to cut the hands off a person who stole a loaf of bread because they were starving to death.

reply to post by tmpxvx


These people are fools. They think just because he is an enemy of the US government, he must be a good man.

*snip*

While I have no opinion on Amhedinejad simply because I don't have the data, don't you find it suspicious the media is condemming what he is saying while he really didn't say anything that was outragous or anti-semetic?

Why demonize somebody if he is evil anyway? won't he demonize himself by his actions alone?

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There are a lot of threads trying to paint the guy in a good light but I think if you take a step back you'll find it is to try to just look more objectively and not let zionists drag us into war... but really you know this, that propaganda switch off has already been referred to (in order to attack said issue). This makes you poignantly aware that Americans have a propaganda issue that some are trying to address... and some people in here are being attacked for having an overly "in the middle" or objective stance on the guy.

"Regime" problems are being heavily expressed here and talk of regime change is being noted.

Americans are Americans and as screwed up as our own government might be, this means we are not Iranians. If you have problems with the Iranian government, it's good for you to use whatever platform you can to complain about it but understand this... we've got our own problems in government and right now an obstacle we face is trying to vote for whichever asshole isn't going to have us jumping right into the middle of WW3... so might I suggest you change your own regime if this is what you desire because the big picture for threads posted in English are geared to American voters to counteract the poison pen put into English words that paint the guy as someone we should fear and take apart. This is an election year issue. This is one of the biggest if not THE biggest issues American voters face and the OPs suggestion here seems to be "No you idiots, we want you to come bomb us because we don't like our leaders"

Trust me, I know what this feels like with waiting for the alien invasion and all that but seriously... this guy is Iran's problem and all we need to know right now is whether or not he's talking about taking the first punch at any allied nation. It's not our job to do a background check on the guy. Oh sure, you can make a thread about it if you like and some of us might even pretend to care but the fact is that threads being discussed here are more about what is happening in the here and now.

It's not a freaking campaign for him.

It's whether or not we see can this guy trying to work with others *right now* and how many threats he is really trying to throw around *right now*

I mean if that is your rant, fine... maybe try bringing some more examples next time but leave our battered propaganda mental complexes out of it while your bombarding us with your leadership problems (cough *propaganda* cough) because it's kind of illogical that an Iranian would want us to get swayed on that subject and warm us up to any guys zionist rhetoric running for our offices that are on that bandwagon that really wants us to come bomb the crap out of that country.

I mean really... is that a solution that we think most Iranians who don't like their leadership would want? I don't think so.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I have read some stories from that part of the world, and have some idea, but a lot of people don't understand how dangerous disagreeing with such a person can be. Frankly, I am appalled that he was allowed to speak at the United nations.

To understand that kind of ruthlessness as an american or decendant of english, welsh or irish, just imagine Edward Longshanks or...Vlad Dracul. Ain't much changed in that region over the last 1300 years, the kind of merciless behavior that allows a man to cut the hands off a person who stole a loaf of bread because they were starving to death.

Not bad comparisons. Now, that leads to speculation as to whether those sorts would have been allowed to speak at the UN, or have people defending their actions. Of course, there is just the one area of the world that seems unable to advance past such times and behavior.

As an Iranian myself, I have to agree with the OP's standpoint on this matter. Ahmadinejad is an incredibly talented public speaker and is only telling the western media what they would like to hear. He has caused a great deal of pain to many Iranians, especially in the initial years post revolution and seeing the amount of support for him on these forums upset me a great deal and that is one of the reasons I have come out of my years of lurking on ATS into actively becoming a member.

Ahmadinejad is an archaic leader who serves the country by assimilating it with extreme ideology and suppressing basic human rights.

reply to post by Gullibleskeptic

Well, at least he isn't invading other sovereign countries now is he?
What do you have to say about a country, (any) country that does that?

I have previously cautioned against this phenomenon of, "Ah, they oppose the hegemony of America, therefore they must be innocent victims of propaganda." I feel that this is a very dangerous dynamic and tendency, and it is something I see more and more of. The same thing happened frequently during the Cold War (especially in the 60s, which led to the famous Beatles lyric, "but when you start talkin' about Charmain Mao," etc.,) with many Americans believing that the USSR and China were bastions of human rights and dignity compared to the U.S.

When I raise this point, people frequently point to the perceived evils of America, as though they excuse the human rights abuses and other things happening inside Iran and other nations. When I try to say that I don't take either side, and instead believe that all sides in this equation are wrong and not protecting their citizens' rights, to say nothing of world peace and stability, I am told that I must be naive of America's evils and that in comparison, Iran's government are saints.

I respect everyone's views, but it is still my personal belief that this is dangerous and ill conceived. From where I sit, the leaders and internal power structures (whatever forms they may take) of both countries (and most if not all other countries for that matter) are trying to expand their own power and control within their respective spheres of influence, usually to the detriment of their citizens' rights, wellbeing, and peace. The differences I see, while extreme, are only in degrees in my opinion, not in principle or sufficient to form any sort of moral highground. At least not by my own ethical standards. As George Carlin once said, "What is the moral difference between sawing the head off of one, or two, or five, or ten people's heads, and dropping a great big bomb on a hospital and killing a bunch of sick kids?" Intent? That's cold comfort.

So I cannot take Iran's side just because they oppose American's foreign policy. Nor I can take America's side simply because I reside here and was born here. Instead I will simply oppose war, oppression, conflict and advocate peace, unity, and freedom. That may be idealistic and naive. But so is, in my opinion, thinking that Iran's government are innocent of all wrongdoing in comparison to the U.S.

You must understand the people here. In America over the years with the communist doctrine being pushed in the schools, we have a lot of people in America that are ashamed of being successful or wealthy or comfortable or healthy or white or goodlooking or having bought their own home or... you get the idea. They will support anyone who hates America with them.

You know, ultimately it doesn't matter what any of you think. We aren't in key positions of political or economic power, thus not making any major decisions on behalf of a nation. Seriously, don't argue, instead discuss as cooperative, reasonable humans. It's adversarial mindsets that keep the population divided. Seeing only the most trivial of characteristics to define a person or people. One would assume that those on ATS would see beyond the obvious, to read between the lines, yet we bicker and squabble over petty differences of opinion.