WOW, Now I understand it all! Why I am a "observer" and "observing" myself - there is only ME!

As Alan Watts said, we are something the universe is doing, in the same way that waves are something the ocean is doing... human beings are apertures through which the universe observes & experiences.

You may think there is only you, and perhaps you are correct; if you look at it from the perspective that we all just.. are. You are me. I am you. Chaos and 'design'. Ideas spawned from matter & energy. Vessels of experiencing.

If anything I don't look at existence in a solipsistic manner. The simulation argument feels like a more logical, intuitive theory; perhaps we are birthed by quantum systems, algorithms spawned within computers from realities up the hierarchy. In that case, creation would truly be a cycle of sorts.

reply to post by NorEaster


These so-called "holons" are observers and what are they observing? Other holons, but all holons are really made of the same thing.

Holon essence is beauty and to understand this - is to see "self" and "other" connect as one. An infinity of beauty. Beauty is formless but it EXPRESSES itself AS form and then observes itself through us (the "human" or "holon" - or any other being).


reply to post by kurthall

Originally posted by kurthall
You are you, and there is only you. Therefore if I am me and there is only you, than you are me!

edit on 26-9-2012 by kurthall because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2012 by kurthall because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-9-2012 by kurthall because: (no reason given)

Exactly, but the REAL question is - if there is only "ME" - then what is MY "ESSENCE"? It is pure beauty seeing itself from many different forms/perspectives...

reply to post by rollsthepaul

Originally posted by rollsthepaul
Our mission throughout our journey towards higher consciousness remains the same; grow our aura, help others and create love. Our conscience is there for checks and balances and actually becomes keener with use. Ignoring a conscience or suppressing it, can completely disable it, as is the case with TPTB. Doing what you believe to be right, is all we can ask of anyone, even though it will certainly lead to a host of instructional mistakes and learning is why we are here. We all tend to forgive those, easily, that cause harm without intention to do so.

I disagree. There is no "mission". Existence IS beauty - EXISTENCE/BEAUTY expresses itself as FORM (Things). There can not be a purpose OF existence because saying "WHY" something exists depend on something else. Once you say existence exists because of THIS - you are again pointing to another existence...

If we are here to "serve" this god - then why does this god exist? No matter how you cover the truth - the TRUTH will always be revealed in the end - there is no PURPOSE! This is why we "seek" our purpose as humans we are really MAKING our own purpose.

We are beauty observing our own beauty - except there is no "we" there is only "I" - all is I and I is all. Who AM I? Formless beauty expressing through all forms. Including this human body typing this response to you.

reply to post by OmegaSynthesis

Originally posted by OmegaSynthesis
I am Me, and You are You, how can you be me or i be you? It's juxtaposed nonsense derived from the illusion of all 'Is'; it certainly is, but within everyone, a different universe exists. To deny that we are all one yet completely different gives way for the same arrogance as placing fluoride in the drinking water for all to drink!

All paintings are not the same, but they are all made from different "colors" - in essence they are just "color" expressed in different ways.

Humans are all the same thing -they are just formless beauty being expressed in different ways, and even seeing humanity as "not beauty" is just another perspective.

Just like a color-blind person can look at a painting and say there is no brilliance no difference of color - even that perspective is equally beautiful because the point is to see "IT" through many different eyes...

Originally posted by arpgme


To see beauty in all and to see beauty in your so-called "Self" is to realize that ALL is ME.

I have also had this realization. To see yourself in others is to see beauty.

When you see all as yourself, look at what is inanimate. Isn't this yourself too? Clean your room.

reply to post by Raelsatu

Originally posted by Raelsatu
As Alan Watts said, we are something the universe is doing, in the same way that waves are something the ocean is doing... human beings are apertures through which the universe observes & experiences.

And let's say the ocean was infinite and it was conscious, what is that "wave" doing now? Observing its own self from many different perspectives. Beauty exists and it creates form as an expression of itself and observes its own nature through many different perspectives - as diverse as possible - even in some perspective that says that it isn't beautiful. Even those perspectives are beautiful because it is beauty seeing itself.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
You may think there is only you, and perhaps you are correct; if you look at it from the perspective that we all just.. are. You are me. I am you. Chaos and 'design'. Ideas spawned from matter & energy. Vessels of experiencing.

And even matter (physical) and energy (spirit) are FORM which is an expression of formlessness (beauty).

Originally posted by Raelsatu
If anything I don't look at existence in a solipsistic manner. The simulation argument feels like a more logical, intuitive theory; perhaps we are birthed by quantum systems, algorithms spawned within computers from realities up the hierarchy. In that case, creation would truly be a cycle of sorts.

There is only Beauty and Beauty is ALL observing itself through many different eyes / perspectives.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by arpgme


To see beauty in all and to see beauty in your so-called "Self" is to realize that ALL is ME.

I have also had this realization. To see yourself in others is to see beauty.

When you see all as yourself, look at what is inanimate. Isn't this yourself too? Clean your room.

All forms are an expression of beauty since all forms comes from the formless and the formless is pure beauty essence. Form is beauty expressing itself and observing itself.


The muddy pig is just as beautiful as the waterfall. But, even different perspectives are equally beautiful so even a belief of "all is ugly" is just as beautiful.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
As Alan Watts said, we are something the universe is doing, in the same way that waves are something the ocean is doing... human beings are apertures through which the universe observes & experiences.

I love that quote back when I thought it was all about me...it helped me see the truth.

reply to post by abeverage


It is all about you - but everyone IS you. They are also expressions of beauty seeing itself - and they are truly formless beauty just as you - you are just in different forms - different "paintings' but all of these "paintings " are beautiful in and by you being a "painting" looking at another "painting" you realize that in reality it is YOU - BEAUTY - just in another form.

Originally posted by arpgme

 

Holon essence is beauty and to understand this - is to see "self" and "other" connect as one.

This contradicts your premise. In order for things to be connected they must first be individual.

Also, being made of the same stuff doesn't make things the same thing.

Lastly, why the need to associate your idea to a warm fuzzy? Why beauty and not something neutral or even negative or better yet nothing at all?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by abeverage

 

It is all about you - but everyone IS you. They are also expressions of beauty seeing itself - and they are truly formless beauty just as you - you are just in different forms - different "paintings' but all of these "paintings " are beautiful in and by you being a "painting" looking at another "painting" you realize that in reality it is YOU - BEAUTY - just in another form.

Nah, that makes me all egotistical and big headed (more than I already am!) I don't like being everyone and like I sort of said then it is too much like Being John Malkovich...

I am pretty sure if I were rich me I would not put up with poor me being poor. And poor me would not like pain and other sillyness!

We are all having a unique and original experience (ride if you will) and although we can have shared experiences they are never entirely the same experience, as if I were you and you were me we would have identical experiences! So if we were all you how do explain not having the exact experience I am having right now? Your logic is flawed...

reply to post by daskakik

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by arpgme

 

Holon essence is beauty and to understand this - is to see "self" and "other" connect as one.

This contradicts your premise. In order for things to be connected they must first be individual.

Also, being made of the same stuff doesn't make things the same thing.

Lastly, why the need to associate your idea to a warm fuzzy? Why beauty and not something neutral or even negative or better yet nothing at all?

edit on 26-9-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

There is bread, cake, muffins, pretzels - YES they are all different "things" but in essence they are made of the same main thing dough/flour. It is not a contradiction.

They are different THINGS but with the same ESSENCE.

All FORMS are different but are connected since they are all the formless essence beauty. Form is different manifestations of beauty.

They is nothing "warm and fuzzy" about all things being beauty. Even the things that do not make you personally feel warm and fuzzy are also manifestations of beauty.


reply to post by abeverage

Originally posted by abeverage


Nah, that makes me all egotistical and big headed (more than I already am!) I don't like being everyone and like I sort of said then it is too much like Being John Malkovich...

The fact that you (really me from another perspective) reject it based on your "feelings" is already being egotistical - because you don't like it - it must therefore not be so?

Originally posted by abeverage
I am pretty sure if I were rich me I would not put up with poor me being poor. And poor me would not like pain and other sillyness!

That is because you (again - just me seeing from another perspective in another body) are seeing from your own perspective. This is why it is necessary for you to form into different beings to see from all different perspectives.

Originally posted by abeverage
We are all having a unique and original experience (ride if you will) and although we can have shared experiences they are never entirely the same experience, as if I were you and you were me we would have identical experiences!

Not at all. The whole point of being everyone is to have DIFFERENT experiences.

Originally posted by abeverage
So if we were all you how do explain not having the exact experience I am having right now? Your logic is flawed...

I already explained it. I manifest into different bodies in order to observe myself from many different perspectives. These bodies and individual mind/spirits - are just forms - expression of me, but all "Forms" are also me as well - so while the "forms" are indeed individual expressions, they are all made of the formless - Me / Beauty. That is how they are all the same - they all have the formless quality of beauty

All is one. Everything is me. But everything is everything. It is free. Don't try to control it. Let it be. You are having an individual experience. You should only control your individual self, because you do not fully understand the individualities of others. Everyone is on their own path to truth.

reply to post by smithjustinb


This is very true, even different words may have slightly different meanings to others and that may cause misunderstandings and we may not even be aware of it.

It is me misunderstanding me, from many different perspectives.

Originally posted by arpgme
There is bread, cake, muffins, pretzels - YES they are all different "things" but in essence they are made of the same main thing dough/flour. It is not a contradiction.

They are different THINGS but with the same ESSENCE.

All FORMS are different but are connected since they are all the formless essence beauty. Form is different manifestations of beauty.

They is nothing "warm and fuzzy" about all things being beauty. Even the things that do not make you personally feel warm and fuzzy are also manifestations of beauty.

Sorry but you did not resolve the contradiction. Not only are bread, cake, muffins, pretzels different things but every bread, cake, muffin, pretzel is an individual thing. Even their dough/flours are different.

Saying their ESSENCE is the same doesn't make them the same thing.

Why did you chose the word "beauty"?

reply to post by daskakik


The flour/dough IS the flour. Just because different things are within does not make the flour itself different it is just flour mixed with other things.

Existence exists. Non-existence is non-existent. "To be" is everything, everything is "To be".

It is all the same at it's core.

Beauty is what it is. Even the perspective of "Ugliness" is beautiful, how? Because ALL is beauty and BEAUTY is being seen from different perspectives - so even labeling it as "ugly" is seeing it from another perspective - making it still a sight of beauty.

Nice thread, my only contribution is a quote from the work of MPH.

Von Schelling also held that the Absolute in its process of self-development proceeds according to a law or rhythm consisting of three movements. The first, a reflective movement, is the attempt of the Infinite to embody itself in the finite. The second, that of subsumption, is the attempt of the Absolute to return to the Infinite after involvement in the finite. The third, that of reason, is the neutral point wherein the two former movements are blended.

reply to post by Raelsatu


mispost sorry.............

reply to post by Snoopy1978


A few questions:

1) Who built the “meat machines”?
2) Who built them?
3) What turned the gooey cpu's on?
4) Who programs the emotional responses of SSRI's, dopamine, and reuptake inhibitors?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't Geppetto or the blue fairy.

Originally posted by arpgme
There is nothing or no-one else. Different life forms and different perspectives are only me observing my own beauty in many different ways.

Truth is not something that has to be "searched" for. - I AM Truth, but even so-called "lies" are me.

To meditate on "I AM" is me meditating on myself.

And since there is only me - unity IS one way of looking at truth. But so is division - since division is apart of all things and perspective that exists!

Now I makes sense why some people (also ME) say that "The Universe creates Humans to observe itself" - The universe (I) am doing this to see myself!

So Why observe myself? Because I am beauty! But even if people do not see me at all - that is still beauty...

To see beauty in all and to see beauty in your so-called "Self" is to realize that ALL is ME.

This human body typing this now understands it... and even this human body is me - all is beauty(ful).

edit on 26-9-2012 by arpgme because: The "mistakes" are beauty and so are the so-called "corrections"...

Dangerous thoughts these... This line of thinking is what gets folks caught up in themselves. How do you plan on solving the social issues that plague this world with that mentality? If there is only you, why concern yourself with all the others in need.....

You are wrong my friend....there is more than just you.

reply to post by arpgme
Your premise has been explored in a novel by Kilgore Trout titled "Now It Can Be Told".
as explained by author Kurt Vonnegut in his novel titled "Breakfast of Champions"
Both probably written before your were born.

Of course, I get the feeling you already knew that.

reply to post by AtcGod

Originally posted by AtcGod
Dangerous thoughts these...

Just another perspective...

Originally posted by AtcGod
This line of thinking is what gets folks caught up in themselves.

Of course, there is only self.

Originally posted by AtcGodHow do you plan on solving the social issues that plague this world with that mentality?

There is nothing to "solve" - although if you believe that reality is not as it "should" be - whatever that is - you are free to try to "solve" it - no one is stopping you.

Originally posted by AtcGod
If there is only you, why concern yourself with all the others in need.....

What "all other in need" - you mean all the forms of myself that is suffering..

I can't even manage to stop the suffering of "this one" and you expect me to stop the suffering of all the other forms of me? Suffering happens - life happens.

Originally posted by AtcGod

You are wrong my friend....there is more than just you.

Nope, only me. You are just a form of me giving an incorrect perspective - but even that incorrect perspective is beautiful. The whole point was to see myself from many angles.


reply to post by grubblesnert

Originally posted by grubblesnert
reply to post by arpgme

 

Your premise has been explored in a novel by Kilgore Trout titled "Now It Can Be Told".
as explained by author Kurt Vonnegut in his novel titled "Breakfast of Champions"
Both probably written before your were born.

Of course, I get the feeling you already knew that.

Your intuition is wrong. It happens to all of us sometimes. Even in "This" physical body I sometimes make mistakes - I'm sure mistakes are being made by me when in the perspective of other bodies.

Even the mistakes and incorrect perspectives are beautiful.

reply to post by arpgme

Solipsism can also be the hallmark of vain narcissism, and in some cases sociopathology when the distinction between self and other is blurred or removed.

It can also drain away the possibility of God's love within the framework of an indespensible I-thou relationship WITH God as the absolute whereby love to BE love must involve the love shared between a beloved and beloved other.

You sound like a very lonely kitty, imho. I would offer to hug you, but from your POV it would just be you hugging you anyway, so why bother..?