Gary Johnson included in Ohio poll (RCP approved), gets double digit support!

There is actually such thing as a conservative libertarian, which is also known as a constitutional libertarian.

Maybe you skipped that in your deep analytical 'research' on libertarianism.

Orrrr you just listened to too much Adam Kokesh.

reply to post by RealSpoke

Libertarianism is anarchism

You're smarter than that, it's really quire unbecoming..

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

Libertarianism is anarchism

You're smarter than that

I really don't think he is, honestly.

reply to post by bl4ke360


reply to post by Rockpuck

That doesn't even make sense, libertarianism has nothing against states. It's actually quite the opposite. Seems to me like you need to educate yourself before posting again.

Yeah it is....and historically libertarians are anti-capitalism. It's not my fault you guys have no clue what the word means or comes from.

As is well known, anarchists use the terms “libertarian”, “libertarian socialist” and “libertarian communist” as equivalent to “anarchist” and, similarly, “libertarian socialism” or “libertarian communism” as an alternative for “anarchism.” This is perfectly understandable, as the anarchist goal is freedom, liberty, and the ending of all hierarchical and authoritarian institutions and social relations.

anarchism.pageabode.com...

Originally posted by RealSpoke
This is perfectly understandable, as the anarchist goal is freedom, liberty, and the ending of all hierarchical and authoritarian institutions and social relations.

Except that's not the goal of libertarianism, so that alone proves you and your opinion spewers wrong.
Lumping libertarianism and extreme anarchy together isn't going to make you look very intelligent, just saying.

Originally posted by RealSpoke


Yeah it is....and historically libertarians are anti-capitalism. It's not my fault you guys have no clue what the word means or comes from.

The first half of the word sums up what it means, which is liberty. I bet you never even noticed that before did you?

reply to post by bl4ke360

Except that's not the goal of libertarianism, so that alone proves you and your opinion spewers wrong.

It's not opinion, it's fact. The end goal of libertarianism is anarchy, the words are interchangeable. You should probably read the whole article. You're still stuck on the American right wing hijacking of the word....which isn't what it really is.

Lumping libertarianism and extreme anarchy together isn't going to make you look very intelligent, just saying.

You're just making yourself look stupid. You have no clue where the word libertarian comes from or you wouldn't be arguing with me....

reply to post by eLPresidente

There is actually such thing as a conservative libertarian, which is also known as a constitutional libertarian.

And these things aren't libertarian, they should have picked a new word to define themselves. Calling yourself a "constitutional libertarian" is like calling yourself a "capitalist communist".

Orrrr you just listened to too much Adam Kokesh.

lol, at least he has some idea what libertarianism is.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by bl4ke360

 

Except that's not the goal of libertarianism, so that alone proves you and your opinion spewers wrong.

It's not opinion, it's fact. The end goal of libertarianism is anarchy, the words are interchangeable. You should probably read the whole article. You're still stuck on the American right wing hijacking of the word....which isn't what it really is.

The problem is you think some article defines what the word means, and nobody should question it just because you agree with it. Tell me, did that article exist 150 years ago? I guess libertarianism couldn't have existed then, because your article had yet to be written.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

You're just making yourself look stupid. You have no clue where the word libertarian comes from or you wouldn't be arguing with me....

edit on 25-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

As soon as you can figure out how to correctly abbreviate your own country under your username, your baseless comments might just start having some credence.

reply to post by bl4ke360

The problem is you think some article defines what the word means, and nobody should question it just because you agree with it.

Has nothing to do with an article, it has to do with facts, facts that you don't like.

Tell me, did that article exist 150 years ago? I guess libertarianism couldn't have existed then, because your article had yet to be written.

No, but libertarianism sure did... meaning anarchy.. leftist anarchy

. Anarchists have been using the term "libertarian" to describe themselves and their ideas since the 1850's. According to anarchist historian Max Nettlau, the revolutionary anarchist Joseph Dejacque published Le Libertaire, Journal du Mouvement Social in New York between 1858 and 1861 while the use of the term "libertarian communism" dates from November, 1880 when a French anarchist congress adopted it. [Max Nettlau, A Short History of Anarchism, p. 75 and p. 145] The use of the term "Libertarian" by anarchists became more popular from the 1890s onward after it was used in France in an attempt to get round anti-anarchist laws and to avoid the negative associations of the word "anarchy" in the popular mind (Sebastien Faure and Louise Michel published the paper Le Libertaire -- The Libertarian -- in France in 1895, for example). Since then, particularly outside America, it has always been associated with anarchist ideas and movements. Taking a more recent example, in the USA, anarchists organised "The Libertarian League" in July 1954, which had staunch anarcho-syndicalist principles and lasted until 1965. The US-based "Libertarian" Party, on the other hand has only existed since the early 1970's, well over 100 years after anarchists first used the term to describe their political ideas (and 90 years after the expression "libertarian communism" was first adopted). It is that party, not the anarchists, who have "stolen" the word. Later, in Section B, we will discuss why the idea of a "libertarian" capitalism (as desired by the Libertarian Party) is a contradiction in terms."

infoshop.org...

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by eLPresidente

 

There is actually such thing as a conservative libertarian, which is also known as a constitutional libertarian.

And these things aren't libertarian, they should have picked a new word to define themselves. Calling yourself a "constitutional libertarian" is like calling yourself a "capitalist communist".

Orrrr you just listened to too much Adam Kokesh.

lol, at least he has some idea what libertarianism is.

Yea but by your own logic, anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism should not exist since in the end its just plain anarchism.

You can't say Libertarians are anti-capitalist and then go and say anarchists can be capitalists.

I had the most oddest political discussion on facebook yesterday....

It all started with a single post from a friend that said, "I'm bored. So, who is everyone voting for?"

This started the ball rolling with the typical "anyone but Obama" trend while at the same time these same "anyone but Obama" people agreed that Romney is not much of a choice either.

Then the next camp came on suggesting that Romney sucks, and maybe we are better off with Obama but these same people really wanted another choice.

Then I got my say and literally dominated the discussion and mentioning 3rd parties. As the conversation progresses point by point EVERY single person participating in this discussion ended up coming to my Camp, which was screw both of them and vote 3rd party.

It was easily the strangest political discussion I have ever had and really goes to show that people have simply had enough of the 2 party stranglehold that this Country has been subject to. These people are not "conspiracy theorist". These people are not what I would even consider "very informed". These are simply blue collar, hard working, family people. They wake up, they go to work, they provide for their families, and that's it. They get no more mainstream or typical.

The discussion actually gave me hope for our future cause little by little by little people are starting to figure it out. People are still taking baby steps, but they are finally getting out of that denial stage and are beginning to see what is really going on around us.

reply to post by bl4ke360

As soon as you can figure out how to correctly abbreviate your own country under your username, your baseless comments might just start having some credence.

Sick burn bro...

My comments aren't baseless, they're based off historical fact. Sorry, I know you've been brainwashed that libertarian means some sort of small government and free market capitalism, it actually means the complete opposite. You are having a hard time understanding this.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

No, but libertarianism sure did... meaning anarchy.. leftist anarchy

Anarchists have been using the term "libertarian" to describe themselves and their ideas since the 1850's.

So you think just because anarchists refer to themselves as libertarians, it means libertarians are automatically anarchists? Looks like you need a course in logic 101.
Here's an example of your logic failure:
Obama refers to himself as a good president. That means all previous good presidents fall down to the level of Obama.
Yeah that's not how it works, sorry to break it to you.

Originally posted by RealSpoke

Libertarianism is anarchism.

Don't get bent, Spoke, but I have seen you repeat that mantra several times in the past few days. Repeating it over and over does not make it true. I hate to be so blunt but it appears you haven't even the faintest hint of a clue what you are talking about. You been riding a bum steer.

Instead of telling the libertarians here what they all are then perhaps you should be listening to them tell you. You certainly have been influenced by some strange notions.

In the end Realspoke, you think free markets and capitalism doesn't even work, in your words, they are, "the worst of the world".

You obviously have something to gain by discrediting any libertarian ideals, including saying there is no middle line for libertarians, its just extreme anarchy.

You're not fooling anybody here...unless you are, then congratulations!

A quick look at Gary Johnson's record of accomplishments shows that your so-called 'worst of the world' actually helps to provide prosperity while increasing freedoms. Something that you absolutely dread.

Now Realspoke, onto your SOLUTIONS. If Gary Johnson isn't A solution to the two party scam, who is? Who would be more viable than he is? Obama? no..you don't like him, he would be a lesser of two evils. Do you support the lesser of two evils? Skip all the B.S. and show us all where you actually stand.

Point taken.. I retract my "smarter than that" comment.

Definition of LIBERTARIAN
1
: an advocate of the doctrine of free will
2
a : a person who upholds the principles of individual liberty especially of thought and action
b capitalized : a member of a political party advocating libertarian principles

an·ar·chist
noun \ˈa-nər-kist, -ˌnär-\
1
: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2
: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy; especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order

Definition of ANARCHY
1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder



Let's recap.
Libertarian: Promote personal liberty, promote "small" government. (note, not "no" government)

Anarchist: Promotes no government, rebels against established authority often in a violent fashion.

reply to post by eLPresidente

anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism should not exist since in the end its just plain anarchism.

You can have a stateless society where everyone voluntarily is a communist or capitalist.

You can't say Libertarians are anti-capitalist and then go and say anarchists can be capitalists.

Historically the word was used by leftists, but anarcho~capitalists really think that liberty and free markets would cause perfect equality. That was Adam Smiths whole theory. They hijacked the term, but at least the have a leg to stand on by the definition.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You're trying to use a dictionary as an accurate definition of what a libertarian is?

I'm using centuries of ACTUAL usage of the word.

But..you cannot have liberty if there is a government, so, really the dictionary is sort of right.