An Inconvenient Tooth - Fluoride Documentary

reply to post by Phage


Fluoridation of public water supplies are not left up to the community, and shouldn't be. Medications should always be left up to the individual. Portland Oregon does not want fluoridated water but the few people on that city council have decided to trump the individual rights of Portland citizens.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Why should people be forced to have fluoride added to their water. People can get fluoride drops if they want. If they can't afford them than they could pick them up at the local health department. It would cost the government less than half as much to give drops to those who could not afford them than to pay for fluoridation costs around the country. What benefit is fluoride to those who have dentures? I think fluoridating water is unnecessary and the biggest waste of tax payer money in the country. Low level fluoride poisoning can cause many other diseases. It does not really poison people on their own. I knew someone who's nephew died from fluoride poisoning in the army. The government was testing fluoride on the soldiers in boot camp. He drank an excessive amount of water and died. He was not the only person who died from drinking too much fluoridated water.

Where I agree that the use of flouride sould be an individual choice, I disagree that the person died from flouride poisoning. Most likely he died from drinking too much water, if he died that rapidly. If one consumes large amounts of water, you get dilution of electolytes such as sodium, potassium, and calcium and this can cause dysrythmias, seizures, and death.
Water Poisoning

This happens quite often, especially in young athletes that are taught wrong about rehydration and they think that drinking gallons of water is the appropriate way to stay hydrated. I've seen it among Marines quite often.

reply to post by Maslo


Boy, you don't know much about bio-availability of things do you? Maybe you should do some more research on this subject before commenting. Don't limit yourself to pro fluoridation articles, read the research papers available on the net personally, not someones interpretation of them.

reply to post by NavyDoc


The military certified it was fluoride poisoning. They even voluntarily financially settled with his mother without issue. People with hard water aren't nearly as apt to have problems with fluoride added to water as people with soft water. The calcium in hard water will bind to the fluoride and regulate the fluoride uptake. We have another problem though, some people adding the fluoride are going to the max allowed because they believe it can't hurt you. This is the same scenario that happened with DDT in the 60's

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

Is there any way you could show some research suggesting or proving that ingesting fluoride is just as effective as using it topically?

The main component of enamel is hydroxyapatite, a crystal with the formula Ca5(PO4)3(OH). This mineral dissolves when pH drops below 5,5. Fluoride ions replace the OH group, forming fluoroapatite Ca5(PO4)3F, which dissolves when pH drops below 5,2. This 0,3 pH difference is what makes fluoridated enamel more resistant to tooth decay (which is basically acidic breakdown of the tooth) than unfluoridated enamel. A pH drop to 5,3 that would dissolve hydroxyapatit would not dissolve fluoroapatit.

Current research indicates that preeruptive effect of fluoride (incorporation into apatite crystals during tooth development from blood supply) is far less important than posteruptive effect (incorporation into apatite from the saliva). Thus topical intake seems to be more effective than systemic intake (citation: Systemic vs. Topical Fluoride)

But we must keep in mind that fluoridated water, in contrast with fluoride tablets, its both systemic and topical fluoride treatment (it is both ingested and washes the teeth when drank), so in areas where people do not have access to mouthwashes or toothpastes with fluoride (or do not use them), water fluoridation is still useful, and better than nothing.

I would like to know if there has ever been a study done with, say, 2 groups of people, one group uses fluoride toothpaste and drinks fluoridated water and the other group does not and find out what the results of their dental checkups would be after a year. Does anyone know if anything like that has ever been done or do the fluoride proponents base their findings off of towns that have fluoride in the water compared to dental health for those communities?

Yes, there have been many such studies. Some examples:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Results

214 studies were included. The quality of studies was low to moderate. Water fluoridation was associated with an increased proportion of children without caries and a reduction in the number of teeth affected by caries. The range (median) of mean differences in the proportion of children without caries was −5.0% to 64% (14.6%). The range (median) of mean change in decayed, missing, and filled primary/permanent teeth was 0.5 to 4.4 (2.25) teeth. A dose-dependent increase in dental fluorosis was found. At a fluoride level of 1 ppm an estimated 12.5% (95% confidence interval 7.0% to 21.5%) of exposed people would have fluorosis that they would find aesthetically concerning.
Conclusions

The evidence of a beneficial reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. There was no clear evidence of other potential adverse effects.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

The results of the Grand Rapids-Muskegon study after 10 years of observation indicate that the adjustment of the fluoride content of a communal water to an optimal level (approximately 1 p.p.m. fluoride) will produce the following effects:
1. A striking reduction in the prevalence of dental caries in the deciduous teeth. At the peak of prevalence, namely 6 years of age, the caries rate for the deciduous teeth was reduced by about 54 percent.
2. A marked reduction in the prevalenice of dental caries in the permanent teeth. In children born since fluoridation was put into effect, the caries rate for the permanent teeth was reduced on the average by about 60 percent.

www.nature.com...

The best available evidence suggests that fluoridation of drinking water supplies does in fact reduce caries prevalence, both when measured by the proportion of children who are caries-free, and by the mean change in dmft/DMFT score. However, to have real confidence in the ability to determine whether the fluoridation of drinking water reduces caries prevalence, the quality of evidence would need to be higher. The failure of these studies to deal with potential confounding factors or to provide standard error data means that the ability to definitively answer the question is limited. The studies were of moderate quality, but of limited quantity. Future research into the safety and efficacy of water fluoridation should be conducted with methodology that can improve the quality of the evidence base.

I am left scratching my head at the folks that advocate or defend fluoridating water supplies. How could a substance that requires special handling because it is so corrosive, is a by-product of industry, and used in pesticides be a good idea to feed people?

I am left to believe that it is not a concern for good health, but rather a way to keep us subdued and manageable. Really, what's more important for the community, individual rights or dental health?

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

The military certified it was fluoride poisoning. They even voluntarily financially settled with his mother without issue. People with hard water aren't nearly as apt to have problems with fluoride added to water as people with soft water. The calcium in hard water will bind to the fluoride and regulate the fluoride uptake. We have another problem though, some people adding the fluoride are going to the max allowed because they believe it can't hurt you. This is the same scenario that happened with DDT in the 60's

edit on 25-9-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

Fascinating. Any sort of link to this? An immediaely fatal dose of flouride for an adult is 32 to 64mg/kg.

reply to post by Witness2008

I am left scratching my head at the folks that advocate or defend fluoridating water supplies. How could a substance that requires special handling because it is so corrosive, is a by-product of industry, and used in pesticides be a good idea to feed people?

Fluoride occurs naturally in water supply, in many areas there is in fact far higher natural concentration of fluoride than fluoridation target (which is 1 mg/l or 1 ppm). This is how it was discovered than fluoride reduces caries incidence - it was noticed that people in these areas had far less cavities than in areas with low natural fluoride.

And fluoride is not corrosive, you are thinking of fluorine gas. Its the same difference as between sodium chloride (table salt) and sodium (which explodes in contact with water).

Originally posted by Witness2008
I am left scratching my head at the folks that advocate or defend fluoridating water supplies. How could a substance that requires special handling because it is so corrosive, is a by-product of industry, and used in pesticides be a good idea to feed people?

I am left to believe that it is not a concern for good health, but rather a way to keep us subdued and manageable. Really, what's more important for the community, individual rights or dental health?

How you put a toxic volatile substance and a poisonous, corrosive gas into you food everyday? By calling it table salt, that how.

You are not looking at a compound but as a pure element. Thats where you are wrong, elements acquire stability when in compound mode, but also remember, high concentration of anything is deadly, even oxygen.

reply to post by Witness2008


The English used tea to purify water to drink. It kills bacteria in the gut and is good for controling bacterial overgrowth. The problem comes when using fluoride in everything, then it is necessary to replenish the gut fluora on a regular basis. Is the fact that we are drinking fluoridated water causing a lot more people to become lactose intolerant? If you can't drink milk, then you could get calcium deficient.

Our government just passed a rule to disallow fluoride as a pesticide/miticide early last year. It is supposedly going to take effect by the end of this year which gives the businesses time to use up their stock. That should help things. Problem is they are replacing it with copper sulfate and other copper compounds. That could make people depressed and in need of MAOI drugs. Or you couldjust use more soy sauce, that will do the trick for most people to rid the body of copper. Could also eat more yellow mustard....

As far as fluoride goes, I think TPTB look at the rest of us garbage disposals where they can dump their toxic waste. As awful as that sounds, it really seems to be the case.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Don't know, it was because the fluoride shut down some organs or something, that's all I remember. The organ failure caused the toxins to build up in his body and he died. I guess that is what happens with fluoride poisoning.

People with certain liver and kidney disorders shouldn't take lasix because the fluoride in it can compromise the organs. I've read that on medical sites. I'm sure that this holds true for fluoridated water also, if either organ is weak it will cause a buildup of fluoride in the body. We should have a choice if we want to take medications, I'm sure a lot of people are effected by this long term low toxicity of fluoride.

reply to post by infiniteclarity

It's not really about that, fluoride can calm people so they don't riot or challenge the way things are. Can't have a country full of chaotic people. I just don't agree with this particular choice of doping people up. There are many choices. Fluoride causes problems with people drinking tea and coffee. Why do you think they were saying coffee and tea were bad for us a few years back. Now it's really good for you since they are reducing the fluoride levels in the water and removing them from pesticides and antifungal treatment for produce.

reply to post by Maslo

But we must keep in mind that fluoridated water, in contrast with fluoride tablets, its both systemic and topical fluoride treatment (it is both ingested and washes the teeth when drank),

Must keep in mind eh? Well I was mindful just now when I drank from my glass of water and it most definitely barely touched my teeth (2 or 3 upper incisor very briefly), certainly not like a mouthwash. Or do you swish and gurgle your drinking water each time?

I suggest everyone grab a glass of water and be mindful as to how topical drinking water is to all your teeth.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Don't know, it was because the fluoride shut down some organs or something, that's all I remember. The organ failure caused the toxins to build up in his body and he died. I guess that is what happens with fluoride poisoning.

People with certain liver and kidney disorders shouldn't take lasix because the fluoride in it can compromise the organs. I've read that on medical sites. I'm sure that this holds true for fluoridated water also, if either organ is weak it will cause a buildup of fluoride in the body. We should have a choice if we want to take medications, I'm sure a lot of people are effected by this long term low toxicity of fluoride.

It is multifactoral. It can interfere with acetylcholinesterase causing ACT build up and seizures. It can turn to hydroflouric acid in the gut. Cause hyocalemia and hypophosphatemia. Deposits in bones cause bone pain and can damage kidney and thyroid.

The question is, that you have to have a lot of flouride to cause acute death. Outside of the 1950's experimentation without full consent was no longer done. I last did an IRB at National Naval Medical Center/WRAMC in 2004 timeframe and the regulations of human trials were massive. I'm not doubting that something happened to your friends nephew, but I think they might have gotten the details confused.

Regardless, I do agree that use of flouride products should be an individual choice and not just put into the water supply.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


So some of the water wont stay in your mouth (mixed with your saliva) after you drink it?

Also, you drink water far more often than use mouthwash, so the frequency can make up for shorter exposure.

Originally posted by Witness2008
I am left scratching my head at the folks that advocate or defend fluoridating water supplies. How could a substance that requires special handling because it is so corrosive, is a by-product of industry, and used in pesticides be a good idea to feed people?

I know! And guess what else that comes from your tap and kills 380,000 people a year.

I am left to believe that it is not a concern for good health, but rather a way to keep us subdued and manageable.

What do you mean, "left to believe"? Because you saw it on a conspiracy site? There isn't a shred of evidence that fluoridation changes behaviour - just some made up stories about the Nazis using it.

How come in the England "they" leave it up to local authorities to decide whether to fluoridate? Only about 10% of the population get water with fluoride added. The thing is, out of the local authorities that don't fluoridate, a fair few have naturally occurring levels of fluoride that are higher than in the areas that choose to add some. Would you like them to somehow remove the naturally occurring fluoride?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Thanks for the documentary, will watch later after work.

What can be done about fluoride already in the body tho? I heard things like adding extra vitamin D and E can help, and iodine.

PS @some responses above, sodium fluoride is not the same as naturally occurring fluoride. Completely different animals.

reply to post by lokomotiv23


They use it on grapes too, for our wine...

Yes it is also used as a pesticide

reply to post by Maslo


And what about the rest of the water that we don't drink? The stuff that's used to shower and wash dishes with and water our gardens? The amount of fluoride that actually gets on our teeth from drinking it is negligible compared to what we actually use for everything else. All the stuff that we don't consume is just dumped back into the system.

It's illegal for the factories to just dump it into natural water sources, so they dump it in our drinking water instead. Brilliant, if you ask me.