An Inconvenient Tooth - Fluoride Documentary

Well, over here (Portugal) our water are not heavily fluorided (is that a word?) and any water (bottled) that has a higher concentration than 1.5 mg/L has to be indicated Clearly in it's tag.

My dentist, amazingly, is against fluorided toothpaste and pointed me to some stores that sell an old, but good toothpaste that is free of it. Most fluoride free toothpastes here are only sold by pharmacy and specific stores with a higher price. Not this one tho. This is one of the oldest national-made toothpaste and it's actually cheaper than the well known brands.

Dentist student here.

Fluoride is a naturally occuring chemical, NOT an artificial one. Public water is fluoridated to achieve the concentration of 1 mg of fluoride per 1 kg of water. In many areas of the world, naturally occuring fluoride concentration is higher (and here, fluoride is instead removed, the goal to achieve is 1 ppm, since this is the most beneficial concentration - enough to prevent caries (40-50% improvement in areas with poor dental care), too low to cause dental or skeletal fluorosis or other toxic effects of higher concentrations). For example, Colorado water has natural fluoride concentrations ranging from 2 to 13.7 mg/L.

It does not matter whether its calcium fluoride, potassium fluoride or natrium fluoride (or many other fluoride salts which are used) that is added to the water. These are all soluble salts, meaning that the fluoride atom is in the form of F- ion in a solution, completely dissociated from the + ions. As long as the second ion is also not harmful (and both Na+ and Ca+ and K+ are not), the salt will not be different in toxicity (at equaly low molar concentration).

Despite this, I dont think water fluoridation is necessary where dental care is available and affordable for all. Topical fluoridation is just as effective as systemic, if not more. Fluoride mouthwashes can keep your teeth fluoridated even better than fluoridated water supply. But in areas where dental care is not available enough, and there are many poor people who could not afford topical fluoridation, fluoridated water supply is a very effective way to reduce the incidence of dental caries (as has been said, 40-50% improvement has been found in such places).

Learning a lot here but am still a bit concerned regarding the (potential) accumulative affects of fluoride. Has it been proven there is none, or is there simply no research providing the necessary evidence? If the latter, I'd have to say I remain strongly opposed to the fluoridation of our water supplies until a conclusive answer can be determined.

And even then, I'd still much prefer to take my water as close to natural (no meddling) as possible. If people want to take extra precautions, whatever they may be, they have that choice. We should have as much choice in the matter of our personal lives as we can.

reply to post by Phage


Thanks for the link Phage. Before buying into an expensive system of avoidance I researched the fluoridation issue thoroughly, and your link can indeed be helpful for those still making up their own minds.

It's too bad that folks that don't want fluoride in their water still get it, and then are handed the bill for it. I don't think that our city and county overlords are really that concerned with our dental care, do you?

Either side can toss in links and research until they explode, but fluoride is bad.

Its like researching "air" for 40 years and putting out tons of papers about how it doesn't exist. If no one knows what it is they'll accept it blindly because they assume the guy who wasted 40 years of his life to fufill proganda was right about air not existing.

If something is continiuously used or digested, over time it will have affects.

Originally posted by AldrinAlden
reply to post by Phage

 

reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

 

Two of the most silly remarks about being safe with yourself right?

What on earth are people like you two doing in a critical thinking forums..when all you do is to strengthen your comfort bubbles..its sad really! you make me wanne tear up and fold up and cry....cause minds like you exist, and minds like that coexist with so much greater minds...are the reason the earth is on a stand still.

Stupid people breed more stupid people, ever thought about that? its this you are doing right now.

I feel sorry for your kids...and your future kids.

oO

Aldrin, you may disagree with Phage but calling him (or anyone you disagree with) "stupid" says more about who you are as a person than anything else. Even if you had a cogent argument, you'd lose me with that sort of insult.

Saying you feel sorry for his/her kids is hitting even farther below the belt.

I know nothing about Nazi/Soviet hi-jinks regards flouride use as a way to manage the masses...but am familiar with literature noting the historical use of flouride as a pesticide. This first came to my attention as a teenager when I first read William Burroughs' "Exterminator"! In the first chapter, he tells the tale of being an exterminator during the 1940's, and the relative ineffectiveness of flouride in dealing with many and sundry critters. (Excellent read, by the way.)

At the time, I was taken aback, at least initially, but soon mentally shelved it as...well, it might have been Burroughs being Burroughs. So, a number of years go by, and, lo and behold, another literary reference to flouride as a pesticide popped up; in the interest of full disclosure, I cannot recall the author...may have been Alice Munro. I'll mull it over some more.

Wind in sails? Perhaps. No accounting for what one may run across in a book, but...here's a little puzzle to solve for anyone who has the time and inclination. Look up EPA registration numbers 00300800056, 03025708880, 01080000001, and 02524207637. Interesting what these products are, and what they contain.

reply to post by Maslo

Topical fluoridation is just as effective as systemic

Is there any way you could show some research suggesting or proving that ingesting fluoride is just as effective as using it topically?

OP: thanks for sharing your video. I'm 41 years old and until I was pregnant with my twins 8 years ago, I never had a cavity. Not even in my baby teeth as a child. I don't believe that was due to fluoride but due to my parents teaching me how to care for my teeth properly. The town I grew up did not fluoridate the water at that time, although i believed they do now, and a house I lived in for most of my adult life until I moved to SC had a well. Ironically, I did not get a cavity until moving to SC and began ingesting the town water here which is fluoridated. I did use fluoride toothpaste most of my life until recently and now I use my own recipe.

I would like to know if there has ever been a study done with, say, 2 groups of people, one group uses fluoride toothpaste and drinks fluoridated water and the other group does not and find out what the results of their dental checkups would be after a year. Does anyone know if anything like that has ever been done or do the fluoride proponents base their findings off of towns that have fluoride in the water compared to dental health for those communities?

Originally posted by TiredofControlFreaks
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Ok - so fluoride in high concentrations is toxic to human. OH HUM - so WHAT?

Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance found in the earth. It is therefore, naturally present in the water we drink and in the dust we breathe.

So is arsenic, cyanide, and all the heavy metals - cadmium, chromium, copper etc. We need some trace level of all these substances or our bodies simply will not function. We are born of this earth, we eat the fruits of this earth and we breathe the dust of this earth.

Yes - water is fluoridated to bring the natural concentration of the water we drink up to therapeutic levels.

The poison is in the dose - not the substance.

Please provide evidence that fluoride at therapeutic doses causes harm to humans and is not beneficial.

Tired of Control Freaks

AAAAAAHAHAHAHA, you make me laugh. Please, do tell me, what is therapeutic about THIS

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused


If you want fluoride to strengthen your enamel, drink tea occasionally. There is organic fluoride in many things, organic is the best thing. When I say Organic, I mean it's part of a plant, tied to a molecule for slow release. This way it has a longterm calming effect, and if eaten with the right foods can act as an antidepressant. One of the problems with the various fluorides they put into water is that it is absorbed too rapidly, causing highs and lows in our blood. If it is in water naturally it releases slowly because it is attached tightly to calcium. It is absorbed about one tenth as fast when naturally in water. Fluoride also acts as a diuretic and can make people get dehydrated fast. Then you have to keep drinking water all day long. Drinking too much water is no good either, it can cause too many mineral deficiencies which equates to getting a lot of problems like Palagra and others. Then you eat more and the sugars get absorbed every time you eat and you get overweight. Another wards, you start to starve to death and get a big gut. I could run hundreds of scenarios, long term constant use of any ion will cause problems. It is better to eat or drink it when you crave it.

Dip your toothbrush in baking soda instead of toothpaste to whiten teeth, disinfect boca, clean dientes.
Cheaper too.

The bigger issue is not what type of fluoride it is or how much is in the water, but that it is being added period. I said it before, adding things to perfectly good water is not the same as taking out contaminants. Money is the issue here, we have to spend it while they avoid spending it at our expense. Putting it in things like toothpaste is fine by me because it gives the consumer a choice on a product I was already going to buy. Putting it in the water gives me no choice but to spend money on a specialized filter (keep in mind 90% of filters do not take out fluoride and the ones that do are much more expensive). This becomes an unneeded bill, constantly replacing filters or buying bottle waters.

reply to post by Raelsatu

So only people with poor dental hygiene benefit... yet everybody is exposed to it?

No. That is exactly why I posted that external quote. The study shows that even those with good oral hygiene benefit from fluoridation.

I'd like to know what you think about this site:

I think it is one of those sites which engages in hyperbole and distortion. Starting with the images on the front page. You know those are showing the result of high levels of natural fluoride, right?

have there been studies to prove that fluoridation does not affect the body in other negative ways

Proving a negative is a pretty difficult thing to do. But generations of populations consuming naturally fluoridated water tend to show no ill effects.

Judging by these apparent unanimous decisions by city council members, absent of a public vote, I'd say my statement stands. Just read some of the post in the comments section.

Yes. I figured you would find that since it is quite recent. Like I said, I think referendum is the best way to go. In Portland it would be a close call.

A new Survey USA poll commissioned by KATU News about putting fluoride in Portland's water supply revealed two clear trends: voters are pretty much evenly split on the issue and almost everyone wants to vote on it.

www.katu.com...
But if you keep looking you will find, as I said, communities which reject it, renew it, and start it (through direct voting).

You think that because some dentist "noticed" that "naturally fluoridated" people had less dental caries, that sparked them to decide that artificially fluoridating water supplies had to be the most rational decision??

That's typical of the distortion by anti-fluoridation groups.

reply to post by jeantherapy

What's really dangerous is your complete apathy concerning the health of your fellow humans. You've stated that you don't drink the kool aid but advocate its use in others.

Please show where I have advocated artificial fluoridation. Once again, for those who have entirely missed the point. My position is that it should be left up to the community to decide for or against fluoridation.

It is the distortion, lies, and hyperbole of anti-fluoridation groups which I am against. It does not help.

reply to post by Cinnamon

A 1/2 litre of Sprite is alright because the drink has been through an industrial process and has clearly defined quality control + they must state what is contained within it.

Fluoridated water makes you sick and Sprite doesn't? That's odd.

Depending on what part of the country you're in Sprite can have as much as 60 times the amount of fluoride that artificially fluoridated water has.
www.fortcollinscwa.org...

Well, it really shouldn't even be up to a community, it should be left to the individual. It shouldn't be in the water and if an individual chooses to get fluoride treatments or drink fluoridated water, then that's fine but I shouldn't have to and my neighbors or some committee or association somewhere should not decide that for me.

Once upon a time, lead used to be in paint and asbestos was used in insulation. Hopefully soon my kids will be able to say, once upon a time, fluoride used to be added to the drinking water.

reply to post by Maslo


You've brought up a good point that so many missed in the first 3 pages. Whether its Calcium Fluoride or Sodium Fluoride, They dissolve into their respective Ions, So you never drink NaF, you drink NA+ and F-...

Seems like we have bunch of people jumping into hate the government, the scientists are out to get us, big pharma blah blah bandwagon.

The amount of fluoride we get IMO is beneficial. Don't buy into over exaggeration.

If you type in "Cavity" on Google image, they will show you the nastiest cavities out there, and not a normal cavity people get.

Oh yeah, Sodium is toxic and flammable, Chloride is poisonous and will corrode you lungs, so don't put salt on your food anymore, the FDA is slowly poisoning you!.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

 

Calcium floride occurrs naturally in earth but sodium fluoride is the stuff that is naturally in water supplies. The first is a solid, the second is in a dissolved form. BOTH OCCUR NATURALLY

Did you have to end your rant with that ^ ?

I have already proven you wrong here.

Sodium fluoride does not occur naturally as it is an industrial by product that is produced by synthetic chemical processes.

"Sodium fluoride is an inorganic chemical compound with the formula NaF."

Are you suggesting something that is inorganic to be naturally occuring?

Still waiting for your comments on the video...

edit on 24-9-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

Uh, all "inorganic" means is that the compound does not have any carbon atoms. There are many, many inorganic compounds found in nature and you do not need a lab to have one.

You tear up this guy for his "ignorance" but you don't even know this? Have you ever taken a chemistry class?

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks

 

Calcium floride occurrs naturally in earth but sodium fluoride is the stuff that is naturally in water supplies. The first is a solid, the second is in a dissolved form. BOTH OCCUR NATURALLY

Did you have to end your rant with that ^ ?

I have already proven you wrong here.

Sodium fluoride does not occur naturally as it is an industrial by product that is produced by synthetic chemical processes.

"Sodium fluoride is an inorganic chemical compound with the formula NaF."

Are you suggesting something that is inorganic to be naturally occuring?

Still waiting for your comments on the video...

edit on 24-9-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

Uh, all "inorganic" means is that the compound does not have any carbon atoms. There are many, many inorganic compounds found in nature and you do not need a lab to have one.

You tear up this guy for his "ignorance" but you don't even know this? Have you ever taken a chemistry class?

People that are not advanced in certain field try to go for the social trend... "Organic" = natural, no genetically modified, and healthy. "Inorganic" = evil, unnatural and man made.

I guess OP was relying on that as one of OPs supportive proof, but that got killed from the knowledge you get from Grade 11 chemistry.

Why should people be forced to have fluoride added to their water. People can get fluoride drops if they want. If they can't afford them than they could pick them up at the local health department. It would cost the government less than half as much to give drops to those who could not afford them than to pay for fluoridation costs around the country. What benefit is fluoride to those who have dentures? I think fluoridating water is unnecessary and the biggest waste of tax payer money in the country. Low level fluoride poisoning can cause many other diseases. It does not really poison people on their own. I knew someone who's nephew died from fluoride poisoning in the army. The government was testing fluoride on the soldiers in boot camp. He drank an excessive amount of water and died. He was not the only person who died from drinking too much fluoridated water.