Wealthy Welfare...UK to Freeze Benefits as Inflation Bites?

reply to post by Sinny


A couple of years back I had a younger girlfriend. I'm NOT financially stable by any means but all she could think of was us having a baby so SHE got a FREE flat and could escape living with her parents......Lets just say I got out of there at the first opportunity! Am in the UK btw.

reply to post by Sinny


Hey Sinny, I may be old enough to be your dad (37) but some of us have got your back and we need to retake control of OUR country! I'm NOT anti-asian or anti-black, I just believe that immigrants should be at the back of the queue when the country is in such a sh*t state as it is now when run by millionaire politicians who have no real knowledge of how the majority of us live!

reply to post by supermouse


Can you PROVE any of that because from what I see its complete nonsense!

For our foreign readers who may not know, British benefits are insanely high. $100,000 a year for a family is not unusual.

reply to post by supermouse


can you show us that figure and what they get to make it that much? it sounds like an exaggeration to me. if anybody gets that much then it is rare not quite common.

Here is some help in making your calculations
www.direct.gov.uk...

Originally posted by jude11
reply to post by CthulhuMythos

 

Sure, they're glad to take money from the poor to fund entertainment for the rich. And now that they're done, it's time to cut them off completely.

People are going to stand and deliver if this happens and it won't be pretty.

Peace

Well let's see. It might depend on whether there is a new series of X-Factor or Big Brother happening at the time as to whether the general populus gets off the sofa and does anything.

The problem is it will just hit people with small businesses trying to scratch a living rather than the people who make the decisions, as seen in the London riots. The government almost needs an uprising in order to bring in full martial law and lock down the control grid nice and tight. Then they will have won.

Originally posted by pikestaff
reply to post by CthulhuMythos

 

you can blame Mrs Thacher for that, she decided the UK should be a service industry nation, (banking, tourism)
a really stupid woman at times, and her 'advisers'

Agreed, it was her that started killing our industry, it was her that started the 'global warming' hullabaloo and it was her that would test out all the crap on Scotland before anywhere else..... the Poll Tax very prominently springs to mind!

the tish hasn't even begun to hit the fan yet. there will be a time, not too far ahead, when it does. then money will not matter anyway. only security and supplies.

Originally posted by souljacker
reply to post by supermouse

 

Can you PROVE any of that because from what I see its complete nonsense!

edit on 24-9-2012 by souljacker because: (no reason given)

What parts do you doubt? Here's an example of a family on $100,000 a year benefits: www.thesun.co.uk...

Tax rates are fairly public. Someone earning (instead of getting hand-outs of) £106,000 a year pays income tax at the top rate of 60% plus employers' national insurance of around 12%, plus 20% VAT in some circumstances.

Rents are constantly rising because housing benefits are so high, and a scheme called SMI means pensioners can spend the money they've saved to pay off their mortgages on a luxury cruise and the tax payer will pick up the payments on their mortgages.

There are some details about tax credits here: www.direct.gov.uk... A family of four get over £30,000, much more than the UK median salary.

There's plenty of info about the debt and deficit on the web, we broke another record last month, the insane waste is still increasing.

The cost of living is increasing because of all the money they print to hand out as welfare.

I wish it was nonsense, but unfortunately the UK is much too generous to the undeserving scroungers - like the person on here who doesn't work and wants me to keep paying for his three bedroom house after 56 years, while I work and have to share a one bedroom apartment. The worst thing about it is that while we are suffering to pay for all these hand-outs, the recipients don't even seem grateful.

Originally posted by supermouse

Originally posted by jude11
So what many said would never happen may already be in the works. Not just reducing benefits but actually freezing them? How is this possible?

This post makes no sense. They are not talking about reducing benefits, not are they freezing them. Instead they have suggested increasing them in line with working peoples' wages.

For our foreign readers who may not know, British benefits are insanely high. $100,000 a year for a family is not unusual. Benefits scroungers are destroying the economy, not just because of the money they take, but because they can outbid working people for food, housing etc. Working people spend three or more hours a day travelling into London to get to work, while the City centre is full of unemployed people living in luxury. As this post verifies, the lazy, greedy ingrates want even more!

Any family where the father or mother deigns to work a few hours a week is instantly catupulted into the top 20% of incomes because of tax credits and housing benefits. Jobs are disappearing because employers can't compete with the generosity of the handouts.

The government preaches austerity, but keeps increasing spending and taxes. "We're all in it together", but the public sector haven't decreased spending by even a penny, while the tax rates on the productive go up and up (over 70% of income at some levels). MPs expenses have returned to record levels.

The old people are the worst, being given massive pensions they haven't saved a penny for, plus free transport and free houses to leave to their kids.

Opportunities are being destroyed, no matter how hard you work you can't escape from mediocrity because most of your money is taken to support idle lay-abouts (pensioners and rich landlords as well as unemployed scroungers).

It's shocking that any reasonable person doesn't want to cut the hand-outs. Do they want our children to be suffocated by debt?

Hold ona sec.......
What planet are you from ?

£100,000 benefits ?
Me and my wife get less than Ten thousand.

The pensioners get Nothing.

Have i read your post wrong?

reply to post by supermouse


you obviously have never had the period of fortune of being unemployed, I recommend you try it, it is like living in luxury.

seriously, getting 100,000 dollars a year is very very rare. and tax credits are handed out regardless of if your unemployed. working tax credits you can only get if your WORKING, and child tax credits you can only get if you have a CHILD or two, they have nothing to do with being unemployed. anybody can make a claim for tax credits, the lower your income the more your entitled to.

I think you are basing this on the most that is possible to get rather than what the average person/family actually gets.

Originally posted by lifeform11
reply to post by supermouse

 

you obviously have never had the period of fortune of being unemployed, I recommend you try it, it is like living in luxury.

seriously, getting 100,000 dollars a year is very very rare. and tax credits are handed out regardless of if your unemployed. working tax credits you can only get if your WORKING, and child tax credits you can only get if you have a CHILD or two, they have nothing to do with being unemployed. anybody can make a claim for tax credits, the lower your income the more your entitled to.

I think you are basing this on the most that is possible to get rather than what the average person/family actually gets.

edit on 24-9-2012 by lifeform11 because: typo

Thanks, but I've just spent a year unemployed. Since I don't have kids, I only got aroung $80,000 in hand-outs, but yes, it was a great year. Back at work again now, and my tan is fading.

As for WORKING being the only way of getting tax credits, you obviously haven't heard of the people getting tens of thousands in working tax credits by pretending to sell the big issue for a few hours each week. You don't have to really go to work or anything.

Naive people think, oh yeah, it's great to help the poor, but the reality is that people on benefits are often better off than the people who work all hours to pay for them.

(I know, I feel bad, but there's a depression on you know, and at least I'm grateful)

This waste really has to be stopped.

Originally posted by lambros56

Hold ona sec.......
What planet are you from ?

£100,000 benefits ?
Me and my wife get less than Ten thousand.

The pensioners get Nothing.

Have i read your post wrong?

Yes you read it wrong, I said $100,000. Not pounds.

I hope you and your wife are grateful. Pensioners, by definition, get pensions, so they do get something (plus pensioners' tax credits, SMI, travel passes, winter fuel allowances, etc. etc.)

Welfare is not a right, it is an entitlement where as you are given another persons money. Why on earth does anyone feel that they are entitled to another persons money? I am all for short term assistance. But folks need to learn to take responsability for their own lives. Mow lawns, shovel snow, babysit, or even shovel cow manure for all that matters, to make up the difference. Oh that would take too much effort I suppose....

I met up with a drug addict that was at one time a friend of mine before her addictions. She wanted to collect welfare since she was too tired to work from her addict induced hepatitis C. She looks able bodied to me... Meanwhile folks undergoing chemo, and look to be on deaths door, go to work to keep paying their bills and to keep their health insurance.

Originally posted by elouina
Welfare is not a right, it is an entitlement where as you are given another persons money.

But don't blame the people who collect it, blame the system that created the need for it.

The welfare state was started by the right to appease the workers, and keep them from revolting, because capitalism creates artificial scarcity. If we had worker ownership there would be no excuse to not work if you are able to.

What do you think would happen if welfare was taken away now? What about people who can't work?

Whether today's global overcapacity is seen as cause or effect of the economic crisis, one thing is certain: it isn't easy to make a profit in a world awash with overproduction. Capitalism is born in conditions of scarcity and is unable to function outside of them. So it seems logical that the crisis creates a tendency to restore these conditions artificially. But how does this affect the chances of the global economy to find a way out of its present predicament?

Artificial scarcity in a world of overproduction: an escape that isn't

Technological capacity to produce enough to satisfy everyone's needs already exists globally and has done so for many decades. Yet needs continue to remain unmet on a massive scale. Why? Quite simply because scarcity is a functional requirement of capitalism itself.

Artificial scarcity

reply to post by supermouse

As for WORKING being the only way of getting tax credits, you obviously haven't heard of the people getting tens of thousands in working tax credits by pretending to sell the big issue for a few hours each week. You don't have to really go to work or anything.

Naive people think, oh yeah, it's great to help the poor, but the reality is that people on benefits are often better off than the people who work all hours to pay for them.

first of all your not entitled to working tax credits if you only work 'a couple' of hours.

secondly, your exaggerating about how much people get and how well off they are on benefits. there are loop holes that need closing because some people do take the p***, but if you calculate what a family would actually get you would see it is no where the amount you think it is.

another thing i know, you get more child tax credits for working minimum wage than you do when you are unemployed. where the difference comes in is not having to pay rent and council tax, although nobody gets full housing benefit anymore and they are scrapping council tax benefit and passing it over to councils to decide what they will do instead, the majority of people at best get near an amount that is lower but close to working minimum wage or they get less or a lot less. those getting more are in the minority, but those are the ones the sun like to report about, and you fall for it.

this is how the majority find it.















this is how those who moan imagine it.

Originally posted by ANOK

What do you think would happen if welfare was taken away now? What about people who can't work?

For folks that can't work, doesn't the UK have the equivalent to the US's SSI disability? I can wholeheartedly agree with taking care of those that can't take care of themselves. But you also have to remember that not all disabled individuals can't take care of themselves. You have to examine the extent of the disability, Even mentally retarded individuals work and take care of themselves. They do the jobs that no one else will. So in those cases, they should get help with fully supportive group housing, medical care, and have backup support for when they lose their jobs or in other crisis situations etc...

The golden question here for able bodied folks is... If mentally retarded individuals can get jobs, why can't you? Oh, I know I will get fried for this question. The truth hurts doesn't it? In the era of the great depression, many US men would travel clear across the US if a job was available. Ok now, I see jobs available in my city. So where are all those people? Ah ha!!! I know the answer... Why should I pick up and move for a job? Myself, I got an 8% raise on top of a pretty awesome wage to begin with. There is gold to be had for those that really want to earn their keep.

Entitlement breeds laziness!

Oh and where I work at? They need folks so bad to take a job with full benefits and an old fashioned pension, (Yes an old fashioned pension! And also a secondary employer matching retirement plan also! You heard me right, 2 pension plans!) that I would get a $1500 referral fee for getting them in the door!

Originally posted by elouina

You seem to think it's easy to get on state disability? Have you ever tried it?

It took me 18 months and an attorney to finally get mine, and I get an eval every so often to check if I am still disabled.

They don't give it away.

As far as 'welfare', that is temporary. No one gets 'welfare' for ever unless there is a genuine reason.

You might assume someone who looks healthy must be able to work. It's not always a case of being able to work, but being able to be hired. For example I look pretty normal most of the time, sometimes I have to use a cane, but I have brittle bone disease, fractures in my spine, and degenerative joint disease, as well other health issues. Even if I wanted to work, I do, no one would hire me, I am too much of a liability. I would also lose my medicare (I have the VA so technically it doesn't matter for me) and it is very hard to get pre-exisiting conditions covered by private insurance.

reply to post by ANOK


Like I said, some need disability. So there is no need to defend yourself or anyone else that is truely in need. I agree 100%! This is between you, your doctor, and SSI disability.

Oh wait I see... I didn't mean you personally. I was talking to all able bodied folks without jobs. I am sorry you misunderstood my generality. I was too broad in my reference. I apologize, and I fixed my comment. I can't apologize enough for my typo.

Welfare may be temporary. But just how temporary is it? In some US states, it can be years! How long can it be in the UK? (This I am not certain about) Plus beyond emergency relief, there are many abled bodied folks temporarily collecting welfare or unemployment benefits that don't have to be.

Perhaps government needs to be a little more hands on. Perhaps relocating folks to where the jobs are since people are just too darn lazy to do it themselves? Back in the depression, folks would have been tickled pink to get a free ride to a job handed on a silver platter. Instead they walked, hitched rides, or took a long train ride. All to get in line behind hundreds of others.

Originally posted by souljacker
A couple of years back I had a younger girlfriend. I'm NOT financially stable by any means but all she could think of was us having a baby so SHE got a FREE flat and could escape living with her parents

It is precisely that type of irresponsible attitude which gets tax payers miffed. If you want to start a family, try to do so with the right mindset.

Welfare is complex. Undoubtedly there are people whose lifestyle choice is parasitic. These people contribute sod all to society, but expect to be supported ad infinitum. On the other side of the coin there are legitimate claimants who have problems.

I think that perfectly fit people must never be allowed to claim welfare for long periods. In this country, to have a thirty year old who has never worked is an affront.

There are jobs. People should get off their arses and look. Yes, they may even need to take a bus and relocate. If olu cannot afford to live in X then go to Y. Are people so useless nowadays?

As to immigrants. I agree that there are too many and often these people contribute nothing. However, I recently advertised for a job where I work. Out of the 30+/- applicants, 18 were from outside the EU (mainly Nigeria) and all had a “right to work” immigration status. Where are all the unemployed UK nationals when you have a vacancy?

Regards

One of the problems is our economic system doesn't give people much choice, either a crappy job, or assistance.

During feudalism workers were craftsmen who could produce a product from beginning to end. Capitalism took that away with the division of labour. Workers trained to do one part of the production, because it increases production. But it makes the worker less skilled, and more reliant on being given a 'job'.

If workers were craftsmen they wouldn't need to find a 'job' or take assistance. Instead of training people to work 'job's they can't find, teach them a craft they can do by themselves.

People get lazy because the system offers no real incentive to bother.