Wealthy Welfare...UK to Freeze Benefits as Inflation Bites?

reply to post by Flavian


Yes, there are plenty of faults with the benefit system yet you fail to comment on the tax avoidance and fraud that costs this country far more than the benefit system.

My view is that those found guilty of benefit fraud should be banned from any welfare payments for a 10 year period.

What about the wealthy who avoid paying tax?

What about the moralising and self-righteous politicians who deliberately swindled thousands of pounds in expenses?

What about the bankers who have cost this country billions through their unregulated incompetence?

But instead of targetting the corrupt and amoral we are told we have to punish the guy down the street who get's maybe a days graft a week to help buy his kids something nice or pay his mortgage.
We target the needy and weak.
We target those that have paid into the system for years but who are now feeling the full effects of the incompetence and ineptitude that has screwed up this country's economy.

Neighbours are actively encouraged to grass on family and lifelong friends with monetary bribes to report alleged benefit fraud.
Next they'll be reporting on those who speak or think the wrong way.

Make it harsh on those found to cheat and the numbers of those willing to cheat will fall.....

Why then are politicians, bankers and industrialists rewarded for exactly the self same thing?

All the rights and benefits our fathers and grandfathers fought for are gradually being eroded bit by bit - and the saddest thing is that we are actively helping 'them' do it!

Alarmist and sensationalist?
Maybe - but true nonetheless.

Double post?

reply to post by Freeborn


No i didn't, i addressed in my second post.



ETA:

On reflection, addressed-ish.....

reply to post by Flavian


Erm. Good question. I know a fair few people involved in benefit fraud, 40% I resent for it, the rest not so much.. I know they are working their butts off to find non-existant jobs, I mean the only thing in Birmingham at the minute is a handful of Retail *apprenticeships*.

I mean, come on really?! They exspect redundant 40 year olds to get paid £95 pw to stack shelves?! Apprenticeships are supposed to be reserved to trained industries, now the slap the term in front of any job vacancy to get cheap labour.

And its my generation thatbeen hit the worst.

But the way I see it, I don't mind paying into public services, the NHS is a god send for example, I'd muc rather have our system than Americas for example, however in the same breathe I could mantion how ridiculous it is to have some beaurocrats investing £500,000 into a peicof art work to sit out side one of the hospitals..

Its like we can't win.

I've always maintained that if services and jobs are low, why are the immigration floodgates wide open?

How 30% of my clients who can't speak English got into the country is questionable.

But at the end of the day, many people are commiting fraud to survive.

reply to post by Sinny


How to stop it?

A period of zero tolerance for everyone, whether that is fat cat bankers breaking all the rules and ethics they can to make a better buck, or politicans lining their own pockets, or companies systematically abusing the tax system or your standard benefit fraudster. At the end of the day, they are ALL cheating the system we live by.

Zero tolerance for all for a year or two and then see where we are. My bet would be a much healthier society. Of course, the possibility exists that i am wrong and it would make things worse but as the system is broken anyway (or appears to be) i think it is worth a shot.

The thing is the right wing media have done such a hatchet job on anyone getting benefits, that there remains little sympathy for those receiving any benefit. Assaults of the disabled are at a record high, because some perceive them to be living the life of luxury on benefits and milking the system.

Benefit claimants are free game at the moment as there is public support for sanctioning them and punishing them harder. God forbid we go after those who caused the crisis. There is something sick about balancing the books on the most vulnerable in society. I'm not saying there aren't problems with the system, but there are more humane ways of dealing with the problem than some of the ways being proposed.

My view is that those found guilty of benefit fraud should be banned from any welfare payments for a 10 year period. "Harsh" i hear some of you cry but that is exactly my point. Make it harsh on those found to cheat and the numbers of those willing to cheat will fall. No unemployment payment, no housing benefit, etc.

reply to post by Flavian


Should people who commit fraud in general be banned from being employed for 10 years as well? do you really think they would get a job if their benefits were cut off and they had benefit fraud on their back?
with your rule it would mean the person would have to become a criminal to survive and hope they never get caught because if they did they would have more on their back and would not find employment for even longer.

I reckon we should just treat people who commit benefit fraud the same as everybody else if they committed fraud. giving extra punishment to benefit cheats will only keep them out of work longer, surely it is enough that they have to go to prison and pay back what they cheated.

I've brought this up in other discussions about the US and the Republican view on social welfare systems... it's all good to simply say "punish those who abuse the system", but what do you do with them?

If you remove their right to claim assistance, crime rates rise, society becomes increasingly unstable, and we're back to the turn of the century with workhouses, slums, massive poverty, disease outbreaks...

We just need to look around the world at other cultures without such systems in place to see what happens when some don't get assistance. Look at India and Pakistan, look at China, North Korea, Russia... there are plenty of examples of what happens when there is no social care systems in place or access to it is difficult or limited.

Removing the social welfare system is not the answer, selecting who has access to it is not that simple. There needs to be a way of making it less attractive as a career choice.

I also agree that this is vastly unfair on the hardworking single people in this country.

The one thing that enrages me the most is that I am used as a piggy bank by my government. As a single working male I am not entitled to housing. I don't have a child, so I'm not a priority. It's completely backwards that I can work all my life and pay taxes into the system, but I am not deserving of a roof over my head. I'm supposed to carry on paying my taxes to pay for everyone else to have a home, but I'm not permitted that same luxury.

As a single person by choice, I cannot afford the high rent of a decent place to live. I can't afford a mortgage, because I can't save the deposit - I have to pay rent!

People like me are squeezed dry to pay for people who contribute little, or nothing at all, to society. We are penalized and used as a funding source; the idiot worker who chooses not to play the system and is rewarded with poverty, while those who do abuse it are given everything they could ever possibly need.

reply to post by Flavian


Well, yea, if EVERYBODY were brought to justice, it should be zero tolerance all round.

In the mean time, concentrate on bringing the beaurocrats to justice,

And create jobs.

How to create jobs? Lend small businesses money to start up, or keep their current ones from going under.

How? Not via the big banks... Hopefully the co-op and bank of Dave keep up the restounding work, and enable us to ditch the larger banks, but hey, they need us in order to do that.

Inflation in the UK is 2.8%, I'd hardly call this "high".

This amounts to 14 pounds on a welfare cheque of 500 pounds a month.

However, every penny counts for people on welfare. If Osborne can freeze welfare at current levels, why can't he put back the 5% tax cut that he just gave the richest people in the country?

Under Osborne's thinking, the Government can't afford an extra 14 pounds for a welfare recipient making 500 pounds a month (just guessing here, I'm in Canada and no idea what welfare rates are in the UK), but can afford to give an extra unfunded 5% tax break to the richest people in the country, dropping their tax rates from 50p to 45p?

reply to post by babybunnies


That's an interesting statistic there. About 3 months ago I was watching a BBC program on the rising cost of living and all meat products had increased 12-14% in cost within the last 2 years.

That's all I recall accurately from the top of my head, but pretty much everything was the same scenario.

Does that put your 2.8% in a different perspective?

Not to mention the increased taxes left right and center, I pay double for my civvies than what I did 3 years ago.

And now it's actually cheaper to catch a taxi rather than pay for 2 bus rides. Now that, if nothing else, says a lot.

Absolutely ridiculous and totally disgusting to even think of doing such a thing.....

Unfortunately I am unemployed at this very moment for the first time in 30 years since leaving school. I have worked solidly through all that time paying both tax and national insurance contributions....

I don't want to be unemployed and I am thankful for the benefits that I do receive in order for me to survive. I am not living I am just surviving with just enough to pay the bills and food to eat...

All through my growing up I was told that if I paid into the system then there may be a time when I may need assistance and that time is now...

So to have paid into the system after all that time and then to be told that I can no longer be in receipt of any benefit I find just like a big kick in the nuts, to put it bluntly.......

If this goes through then there is going to be chaos on the streets, more crime and deaths are going to occur in order for people to even survive......

I have no idea what this government is up to, but it's the worst I have ever known since Maggie Thatcher was in power in the early eighties when I left school to start my life of employment to pay my taxes and national insurance contributions.........

Shame on them................

It seems Clegg is slowly coming out of his shell and challenging the Tories (about time).

Sorry for the link to the Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk... vices%2Fviewer%2Ffederated_f9%3FisVid%3D1%26isUI%3D1%26publisherID%3D1418450360%26playerID%3D72484359001%26domain%3Dembed%26videoId%3D&hasBCVideo=true &BCVideoID=1854520070001

Nick Clegg will block George Osborne’s plans to freeze welfare payments and make further spending cuts unless the Tories back plans for higher taxes on the wealthy.

In a bid to shore up his position ahead of this week’s party conference, the Lib Dem leader said he would veto calls for £10billion of extra benefit cuts.

And senior Lib Dems last night insisted they will not back Conservative austerity plans to keep slashing public spending until 2017 and beyond.

Bravo, nice to see Clegg actually trying to thwart the Tory bastards.

reply to post by mr-lizard

The problem is, everything clegg touches goes wrong. I think the Tories know that and that's why they will be happy to hear him talk about these wealth taxes. The perception of clegg is so bad that people will immediately disagree with his ideas, just because they are his ideas.

reply to post by n00bUK


I dont know what you are on about.... I'm not hating on anyone.... just stating what is going on.... not jus her and her kids either... loads do it and you know so.

another story i read about recently was Nigerian guy living in a mil pad back in Nigeria yet claiming benefits from the UK in a different name....

There are may more but I wont go into it.

You got the wrong end of the stick!

What it comes down to is there are genuine people who need benefits and there are others who cheat big time and big amounts!! Its ok if you cheat a little here and there but when you start taking the pee.... you ruin it for the rest.

BTW the Bulgarian I was chatting about knew what she was doing from the off when she heard how easy it is to claim over here....

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

The problem is, everything clegg touches goes wrong. I think the Tories know that and that's why they will be happy to hear him talk about these wealth taxes. The perception of clegg is so bad that people will immediately disagree with his ideas, just because they are his ideas.

In don't think that's exactly the case. His main mistake was allying with the tories and then allowing them to nudge him away from his policies.

I think Clegg is trying to regain some honour by making it as hard as possible for the right wing to get a firm foot-hole. Hopefully Clegg will stick to his guns this time and challenge Osborne and Cameron and the rest of the shower of bastards.

The sooner we're rid of this pseudo-tory party the better.

They're pushing us to the limits.

I have two crippling illnesses that means I can't work.
I've lived in my home for 56 years. I was born in this house.

My wife and I just about get by with benefits but from next April there'll be no help with council tax.
Because my house is three bedrooms.....(..our three daughters have all moved out ) we have been told that we will only recieve benefits for ONE bedroom.
This means we will have to pay £22 pounds a week for the other two bedrooms or move out and find a one bedroom flat.
As there is no one bedroom accommodation in my area, we will have £88 deducted from our benefits each month.

This will affect the unemployed, those on sickness benefits and all those in low paid employment.

They'll carry on the wars and giving the bankers more money while they bleed us dry.

Originally posted by LordGoofus
I don't really see how this could go ahead. Surely even the dopiest of politicians could see that cutting welfare completely would leave thousands desperate and homeless and guarantee increased crime and possible riots?

do you think this would hurt the wealthy?? they don't care about the poor, the crime, the riots...they simply wire tranfer their assets to a bank in a more stable country, and move there...THEY DON'T CARE!!

Originally posted by jude11
So what many said would never happen may already be in the works. Not just reducing benefits but actually freezing them? How is this possible?

This post makes no sense. They are not talking about reducing benefits, not are they freezing them. Instead they have suggested increasing them in line with working peoples' wages.

For our foreign readers who may not know, British benefits are insanely high. $100,000 a year for a family is not unusual. Benefits scroungers are destroying the economy, not just because of the money they take, but because they can outbid working people for food, housing etc. Working people spend three or more hours a day travelling into London to get to work, while the City centre is full of unemployed people living in luxury. As this post verifies, the lazy, greedy ingrates want even more!

Any family where the father or mother deigns to work a few hours a week is instantly catupulted into the top 20% of incomes because of tax credits and housing benefits. Jobs are disappearing because employers can't compete with the generosity of the handouts.

The government preaches austerity, but keeps increasing spending and taxes. "We're all in it together", but the public sector haven't decreased spending by even a penny, while the tax rates on the productive go up and up (over 70% of income at some levels). MPs expenses have returned to record levels.

The old people are the worst, being given massive pensions they haven't saved a penny for, plus free transport and free houses to leave to their kids.

Opportunities are being destroyed, no matter how hard you work you can't escape from mediocrity because most of your money is taken to support idle lay-abouts (pensioners and rich landlords as well as unemployed scroungers).

It's shocking that any reasonable person doesn't want to cut the hand-outs. Do they want our children to be suffocated by debt?

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
reply to post by jude11

 

This is BS but you know who's to blame?

The Scroungers who come here hoping to get benefits and live off the benefits like the Bulgarian Family who I read about recently.... she came with 3 children so got put up in a hostel until on bed flat came up but then another 6 kids came over and she needed a bigger house so she got one.... gets about £35,000 a year in benefits!!

These are the ones who need benefits stopped and all the others who come over.... once this is sorted, you will see a huge saving in benefits handouts!!

I see its a Millionaire who has come up with this proposal while he is most likely saving his cash up in an overseas account and not paying tax!!

edit on 24-9-2012 by TruthxIsxInxThexMist because: (no reason given)

ANY country should look after its own before any others. The UK has a habit of putting "others" first for fear of upsetting them while the rest of us have to make do and the majority will not protest or riot to try to change things.