Do not blame God, blame the Christian hypocrites!

reply to post by adjensen

(as a Protestant leaning Catholic,...

I apparently misread this statement that you were a Protestant-leaning Catholic....., rather than a Protestant leaning-Catholic.

Appreciate the clarification. The Methodists, in my experience, aren't nearly pious enough. But still do good works...

have been involved with them on a familial as well as a missionary and educational/social service level.

reply to post by bullshirt56

Since Constantine made Christianity the official religion of his vast empire

No, he didn't do that. Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. This means Christians weren't persecuted any more. Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire quite some time after Constantine.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen

 

(as a Protestant leaning Catholic,...

I apparently misread this statement that you were a Protestant-leaning Catholic....., rather than a Protestant leaning-Catholic.

Sorry, I'm still not explaining it clearly. I am now a Catholic. Prior to April, I was a Methodist. While I was a Methodist, I was a Catholic leaning Protestant -- if you lined me up with a bunch of other Protestants, I would be found down on the "agrees with some Catholic theology" end.

Today, I am flipped -- if you line me up with a bunch of other Catholics, I would be found down on the "agrees with some Protestant theology" end.

Appreciate the clarification. The Methodists, in my experience, aren't nearly pious enough.

Actually, there are only two religions that believe that one can become entirely sanctified -- Catholics and Methodists. The 19th Century Holiness movement began as a Methodist study group on the concept of sanctification (the Salvation Army is a modern day church that's still around as a product of that movement.)

It's definitely not a mainstream Methodist belief, though I've met some who still claim it is possible.

reply to post by adjensen

Actually, there are only two religions that believe that one can become entirely sanctified -- Catholics and Methodists.

Hmmm.....

interesting.

My former bro-in-law and his wife/bride were both ordained Methodists ministers; and were about as casual as Protestants can get.

Thanks for the insight, ad.

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by bullshirt56

 

Since Constantine made Christianity the official religion of his vast empire

No, he didn't do that. Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. This means Christians weren't persecuted any more. Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire quite some time after Constantine.

Correct, Constantine only legalized the religion ending it's persecution. His 2nd successor Theodosius I made it the official religion of the Empire of Rome.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by bullshirt56

 

Since Constantine made Christianity the official religion of his vast empire

No, he didn't do that. Constantine made Christianity a tolerated religion. This means Christians weren't persecuted any more. Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire quite some time after Constantine.

Correct, Constantine only legalized the religion ending it's persecution. His 2nd successor Theodosius I made it the official religion of the Empire of Rome.

If i remember correctly Eusebius was involved in that, off the top of my head. The problem with making it a state religion was that it took the focus from being a salvation experience to becomming a member of the church for salvation, not on hving a personal relationship with Christ. Join the Holy Roman Army and you're automatically saved type stuff. Constantine didn't even bother getting baptised till later in life, practically ready to croak because he believed an emperor would wrack up alot of sins so he waited till the end of his life, believing baptism would wash away his sin, which smells like mithraism.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Oops I forgot the main point. Jesus wants us to feed His sheep the GOSPEL.
Food is great for the short term we live and walk on the earth, the real food is the Gospel that He demanded we teach the whole world. The gospel wont save people from hunger, it will save them from hell.
That is the imperative, learn to exegete your bible and dont place your religious burdens on people. Hypocrite.

Christ teaches His gospel, you teach charity and condemnation.
There is a role for charity, but the real need is the gospel. Go read your whole bible. Thats dreadful teaching.

edit on 23-9-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

I think you're missing my point.

There are many ways to go to Hell and I'm only discussing one.

Adultery, murder, ignoring the poor... The Kingdom of God is not filled with people who continues to do those things but only those who have repented.

Yes the 'Bread of Life' or the Gospel is more important than physical food...

But the Gospel is also telling your to take care of the poor among many other good things. How am I contradicting myself?

Repentance encompasses everything. From a carnal man or woman, renewed to the image of God, which one of the fruits is caring for the poor, among many other fruits, as long suffering, loving God with all their hearts, mercy, justice, righteousness.

Jesus did say, many will call in His name one day, but will simply tell them, "away from me you evildoers!"

Who is Jesus condemning?

My Jesus is a real person, not a Walt Disney character.

Originally posted by ahnggk
Christianity revolves around Christ, correct?

Why do MOST Christians treat Luke 12:33, Luke 3:9-11, and Matthew 25:41-45 like a joke??!!

16,000 Children dying of hunger EVERYDAY!! Wake up, wake up!!!

www.bread.org...

But why do MOST Christians still choose to live beyond the basic needs - food, clothing, cheap apartment, cheap-used car, keeping few possessions, etc...

But instead, choose to spend most their earnings on themselves and friends! They really don't care about the poor!! 10% on tithes won't keep you away from Hell!!

I'm not accusing Christians for nothing, I've been a Christian for 20 years!

You earnings/profits are not your own due to your hard work!! You have it because God simply allowed it!! It doesn't matter whether you're Christian or Unbeliever, it's God's!!

Unbelievers curse God because of Christians!! God commanded us to be the salt and light of this world, but do we do?? We keep all the light and salt for ourselves?? God's wrath is upon you!!

Nearly all Christians will go to Hell!!

Matthew 25:41-45
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

It's not enough that you help the poor only once!! It must be a life long commitment of austerity so you can help the needy as much as possible!!

Less to self, more to the Gospel and to the poor!! Keep your life and you lose it!! God so loved the world, He gave us Jesus for us to believe and to follow, so we can be of big help to the world!!

edit on 22-9-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)

Keep on trying to figure it out. But if you are looking in the "By B(a)-El"(bible) then you are finding the reason right in front of you. The Freemason and Papal Coven of El sold us out. They built the monolithic doorways and opened the people via Ritual, which left the Followers opened for possession. That is the secret of the Chateau Le Rennes. The Father of Mankind, who is the All Father ...never gave us the Coven Age which was renamed "Religion". "Torah" is "To Ra"; "Koran" is "Core An" as in military corps. They say a few nice words while deliberately entraining Followers to rituals to the Left hand Path, which is the path of their father branch SET(An).

Truth be told your love is more precious a gift to the whole world then a million loafs of bread. Love spreads through out the whole human collective. You love one person and he feels that love so he spreads his love unto another until ad infinitum.
It can be said though that humanity as a collective is in deep suffering. But I tell you if you love someone even with a good thought it lowers the human suffering just a bit. Be happy and your happiness and joy will spread wherever you walk and bring a warm loving feeling to those you around you. It is a spiritual gift that transcends material donations. I tell you that an unhappy man with deep suffering in his mind will only bring suffering to others. Even his so called material gifts will be a bargain for his own greed, for the wanting of treasures in heaven.

Does it not say that love is the greatest commandment... I tell you it is also the greatest and most divine gift to man itself. An old mystic understood gods infinite love. He said, "I will go on being myself. I will not pay attention to the priests and preachers because I trust that god's love is great enough; I cannot (finite being) commit a sin (finite) that can be greater then his love (infinite). So why be worried? Our hands are small and sin are small. Our reach is small. How can we commit sins which gods love cannot forgive? If GOD IS LOVE then he cannot be present on the last judgement day to sort out the saints and throw the remaining millions and millions of people into hell for eternity."

So really all the insignificant things we do by trying to be perfect christians are but a small reach compared to the reach that love can extend if christians were to love with their full potential. So really if god or existence which you are apart of is really in control of everything including life, death, the rise, the fall and the impertinence of all things then why do you worry? Just love because it says god is love and that is a great enough gift... Peace

Originally posted by Key2life
So really all the insignificant things we do by trying to be perfect christians are but a small reach compared to the reach that love can extend if christians were to love with their full potential. So really if god or existence which you are apart of is really in control of everything including life, death, the rise, the fall and the impertinence of all things then why do you worry? Just love because it says god is love and that is a great enough gift... Peace

edit on 10/15/2009 by Key2life because: (no reason given)

There are still 16,000 children dying of hunger so I'll conclude it's not working.

There are probably similar number of adults (thousands) dying as well of hunger. They die without hearing the gospel...

Is that love????

God, where are your followers you commanded to take care and find the lost Sheep??!!

Are they still wallowing in their 3-bedroom homes, in their big, SUVs, in their value meals, in their weekend hike in the woods, in the comfort of their churches????

reply to post by bullshirt56

"Yes, I believe the business of church has robbed Christians of Christ's message."

My take is this: If god put these people to perpetuate his message- first: where are these 'miracles' the bible professes? None. Supposedly, the christians of this time were to be performing great miracles. There's no miracles, no power, nothing. Second- if there was a god, a lot of the mess the world is in- starvation, homelessness, and the dirty christians themselves SHOULD have been handled directly by god, for 2 reasons- to show he exists and has power, and 2) because he'd be that PO'd.

All we've heard is cosmic crickets. It's been nothing but people and power... no god no devil, no nothing.

reply to post by followtheevidence

"The gift of poverty is one of the spiritual gifts dispensed by God..."

Wait- what??? "the gift of poverty?!" Are you INSANE???? I'm not a lover of money- the stuff's worthless- but really....???? Have you BEEN in poverty? I have! You spend your waking and even non waking hours hoping the power wont be turned off, you wont be robbed of what little you have, you GET robbed (a lot), Food? WHAT food??, And the christians... hoo, *boy*... They act like you are well below the scum of the earth. No respect, no help, no hope, no nothing- a miserable, contemptible existence... and this is a "gift"? Only to those of you who wouldnt know real poverty if it came up and p***ed in your shoe. You are forced to eat poisoned, artificial food. You are forced to use cheap stuff that is toxic, breaks easily. Clothes... beds- all have to be second hand, and with the threats of disease and bedbugs and such, it's a crap shoot.

Gift, huh. *scoff*. Is there a return desk....?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


"In fact, charity towards the poor is a biblical command."

Yes. I'm on a rant. I have had need of charity on more than one occasion. Wanna know what I heard? "in GOD'S TIME!" Caps because of that howl at the end of the sentence. This is before they piled in their SUV, or strutted their well clothed self off.

My all time fave experience (NOT):

I was in a bind one day while I was still going to church (there's an experience that'll take me pages to go on about)- I had no car, it was in the garage, I had little money, I was (still am) without any family, and I had no g/f, wife, etc ( Got a g/f now. Life has improved.) And this is what I got from my pastor, as he drove away in his luxury car, with his family:

"Jesus never said it was easy"

I stood there in the parking lot, slack jawed, with my brain oozing out of my shoes, speechless. My mind had utterly fled.

Give to the poor freely, huh.... BULL*HONK*! THat's just one of thousands of nasty experiences I have had from churches across a great deal of my life and travels. If there's a god, you 'christians' are in for it, and in spades. However- seeing what I've been thru... I can doubt there IS a god.

reply to post by Key2life


Love:Definition

When you love someone- you want to do things for them- i.e.: I love my g/f, and I try to help around the house, buy her presents, etc.

I love my cat. I feed him, take care of him, try to tend to him when he's sick.

YOUR definition seems to be "wow. I love you", and little else. Telling a starving person "god loves you" and leaving them there to starve and die so they can have their "eternal reward" is inhumane. It's disgusting.

It's typically christian.

As side note: I read several threads on who is what- like it's the most important thing in the world! does belonging to some faction of this religion or another dictate how much or how you should help someone- as pertaining to getting your asses into heaven??? How about JUST FREAKING DOING IT. Screw the eternal rewards. Un-be-leavable.....

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by Key2life
So really all the insignificant things we do by trying to be perfect christians are but a small reach compared to the reach that love can extend if christians were to love with their full potential. So really if god or existence which you are apart of is really in control of everything including life, death, the rise, the fall and the impertinence of all things then why do you worry? Just love because it says god is love and that is a great enough gift... Peace

edit on 10/15/2009 by Key2life because: (no reason given)

There are still 16,000 children dying of hunger so I'll conclude it's not working.

There are probably similar number of adults (thousands) dying as well of hunger. They die without hearing the gospel...

Is that love????

God, where are your followers you commanded to take care and find the lost Sheep??!!

Are they still wallowing in their 3-bedroom homes, in their big, SUVs, in their value meals, in their weekend hike in the woods, in the comfort of their churches????

Yes. They are. Arguing which denomination gets more cookies, yet. I have been on the receiving end of "god's love" and I can say, in true honesty- my butt ended up sore from it. I've been mistreated, abused, laughed at, scorned, screwed, robbed, lied to, discriminated against, and just generally **** on. I've gone non believer after 22 years of this. And lemme tell you- a weight has come off my shoulders, and I feel better- until I see stuff like this. I blame both god and his screwed up followers- because if they work for him, they should have been fired a long, long time ago.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen

 

(as a Protestant leaning Catholic,...

I apparently misread this statement that you were a Protestant-leaning Catholic....., rather than a Protestant leaning-Catholic.

Sorry, I'm still not explaining it clearly. I am now a Catholic. Prior to April, I was a Methodist. While I was a Methodist, I was a Catholic leaning Protestant -- if you lined me up with a bunch of other Protestants, I would be found down on the "agrees with some Catholic theology" end.

Today, I am flipped -- if you line me up with a bunch of other Catholics, I would be found down on the "agrees with some Protestant theology" end.

Appreciate the clarification. The Methodists, in my experience, aren't nearly pious enough.

Actually, there are only two religions that believe that one can become entirely sanctified -- Catholics and Methodists. The 19th Century Holiness movement began as a Methodist study group on the concept of sanctification (the Salvation Army is a modern day church that's still around as a product of that movement.)

It's definitely not a mainstream Methodist belief, though I've met some who still claim it is possible.

You seem confused. Maybe it would help if you grasped the fact that ALL Protestants, so-called, are lapsed Catholics.

I just love the way atheists use the bible against Christians. First, they say the bible is a myth then, out of their ass they say, "Heeeeyyyyy! You're not living by the bible", and the stomp their little feets. I know it's not nice to laugh at retards but sometimes it's deserved.

Originally posted by MeTarzan
You seem confused. Maybe it would help if you grasped the fact that ALL Protestants, so-called, are lapsed Catholics.

Curious point. No, I don't see it that way, but please clarify -- how does that affect the OP (or, if you were just replying to me, my post.)

reply to post by YellowRoseTx51

Keep on trying to figure it out. But if you are looking in the "By B(a)-El"(bible) then you are finding the reason right in front of you. The Freemason and Papal Coven of El sold us out. They built the monolithic doorways and opened the people via Ritual, which left the Followers opened for possession. That is the secret of the Chateau Le Rennes. The Father of Mankind, who is the All Father ...never gave us the Coven Age which was renamed "Religion". "Torah" is "To Ra"; "Koran" is "Core An" as in military corps. They say a few nice words while deliberately entraining Followers to rituals to the Left hand Path, which is the path of their father branch SET(An).

Wut

Torah means "teaching. law or instruction".

El is the Ugaritic (semites) word for the "Most High", sometime used with El Elyon "the Almighty", hebrew slaves sometimes carved "El save me" into prayers on the walls of copper mineshafts in Egypt.

I am reminded of a scene from the film K-Pax, in which Prot says, "You humans - most of you anyway - subscribe to this notion of an eye for an eye, which is known throughout the universe for its stupidity. Your Christ and your Buddha had quite a different vision. But nobody seems to listen to them much, not even the Christians and the Buddhists."

I'm not religious myself today, although when I was a child my family was and I became well acquainted with the bible (and I have since explored other faiths thoroughly.) Today I'm an agnostic skeptic, but I do have beliefs. I simply distinguish between beliefs or opinions (things which I choose to hold to but which I acknowledge I lack proof of and therefore do not assert as factual, let alone attempt to persuade anyone else of) and facts (things for which adequate proof exists.) Among those beliefs, or principles as may be more applicable here, are compassion, charity, forgiveness, and empathy. Empathy in particular, because I believe that acting out of compassion without truly attempting to grasp in some measure the real suffering of others in different situations than my own is somehow incomplete (for me.)

With that in mind, for those who are Christian, I am reminded of several well known gospel quotes. "Love thy neighbor as thyself." "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." "Love your enemies." "Love one another, as I have loved you."

As I said, I'm not religious. I'm a very skeptical person. But when given the choice between a meaningless existence and nihilism - which for all I know may be the truth of our reality - and "succumbing" (as some humanists and atheists I know might term it) to my nature, which for whatever reason - real or subjective to the natural human condition - happens to include empathy and what we call love... I choose love. Because the alternative is to accept that reality, as wondrous as it may be, is ultimately nothing more than my subjective neurological interpretation of raw information, devoid of meaning, context, and purpose beyond that which I, through illusory reasoning, attribute to it, until my demise, at which point I will cease to exist as a functioning individual consciousness anyway. And while that may all be true, and despite being fully aware of cognitive dissonance and how it works, it leads me to consider that if so, I'm not risking much by choosing to believe in love anyway.

So I choose love, and that's why. Whether it's more than a chemical in my brain or not.

And if I do, as skeptical as I am, I have to wonder at those who call themselves Christians and are not as skeptical as I am and are ostensibly wholly committed to the teachings of their religion's very basis, who taught them to do so... and yet do not do so. (Note, I say I wonder at them, not that I condemn them.) I am not referring to Christianity as a whole. As I've said in other topics, I do not make assumptions about groups. I observe individuals. I am speaking solely of those Christians who identify themselves with Christ, and yet seemingly act out of a lack of forgiveness, a lack of love for their perceived adversaries, a lack of love even for one another in some cases, and a lack of refraining from judgment. Indeed, at times I have had Christians profess to me the belief that it is their duty to judge and to persecute, because refraining from doing so would be to tolerate sin - even though they are (unless I misremember by childhood catechism classes) supposed to place judgment at the feet of their god, and instead live only with love and mercy toward their fellow human beings.

Just my two cents.

I say that with utmost respect and tolerance for those who disagree. Peace.