Confused - Is The Muslim Video Really Making People Angry - It is a stupid video

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Dear JohnPhoenix,

And yet, you truly miss the point.

As you now wish to be argumentative ( by your own admission you are trying to win an argument) instead of participating in a reasonable discussion, I do not think as a Christian I can continue to fuel your angst. I am turning the other cheek, wiping the dust off my sandals and leaving the city.

If Muslims are so sensitive then how come none responded to my post? A lie is a lie. You say I wish to be argumentative now, nope, always. Prove me wrong, show me where the Muslims are creating havoc on this site. Show me where they cause problems on religious threads on this site. Show me. Lies and innuendo mean nothing, give me proof. I did not say that I agree with their religion, I said show me where Muslims are creating havoc on this site, they are not. Show me where they seek out Christian sites to attack, they do not. I disagree with their religion and have my own blog, they never bother me. I am not trying to convert them all, show me evidence that I am. I say what I mean and I mean what I say, they leave me alone. They don't seek me out and I think they are wrong, I disagree with their beliefs.

Look beyond me, they don't spend a lot of time arguing with Christians, they don't waste their time arguing with Billy Graham. They don't waste their time arguing with atheists, show me their posts on ATS where they do. Read the whole thread, I said to them that I believe they are wrong and nobody threatens to kill me, no Muslim insults me, how sensitive are they? I will say that I believe that Mohammed was a false prophet, they will not threaten to kill me, I have already stated I am a Christian and not a Muslim and they do not come after me, the video was made by a moron and any Christian or Muslim can see that, we ignore morons, so do they. Make your point and use your words, show me where Muslims are creating a problem on the internet, not with me, with anyone, they don't bother, they ignore most atheists and Christians.

Give us your point, are you a believer or not? If you are not then tell me why they don't attack me. Are there just not enough Muslims to attack me? How many Muslims bothered to attack me? That would be none. I will go to Iran and speak at a Christian church with no fear, I will tell them upfront I am a Christian, I would rather go to Ira and tell them what I believe than go to Egypt. What is your point? Not all Muslims are fascists, that is just the truth, deal with it. Stop being a bigot and grouping them all together. Do you like that answer better?

reply to post by Bluesma


Dear Bluesma,

I have seen your avatar before, you are cute. and I seem to recall that you have a mind of your own. I have a poor memory and am to lazy to go see which threads we have shared. It is my day off.

Sometimes when someone is grouchy, or filled with pent up anger or frustration, it takes very little to set them off. This is why leaders of peoples have it in their best interest to create a sense of discontent or emotional upset (fear, anger). This gives an underlying momentum that is easier to canalize and stear whatever way you point it.

You have highlighted the point I was trying to make. The Arab Muslims are angry with us because of other things, the movie was just one more insult. What we have done with Arab prisoners far outweighs some stupid video. They are mad at us for bombing them and supporting Israel. It isn't much more complicated than that. When some idiot pastor burns the Koran, it doesn't cause a war, it is just an event that exemplifies our attitudes towards Arabs. We are in Iraq because of oil and they know it. I publicly posted that I believe Mohammed is false prophet and Muslims don't care about my questions or other peoples. If we stopped bombing them and only protected Israel we would probably have a better chance at peace.

I had five family members in two different wars in Arabia at one time. We are not concerned about "evil" regimes in Africa, we don't "protect" people there or "free" them from oppressive governments because they don't have oil. There are plenty of Muslims in Africa, they don't seem to be a problem for the United States. We don't here about them rioting over the stupid video. Probably because we are not bombing them. War is NOT about religion, it is about money. Governments and the media don't want you to think that way. They want you to hate "them", the extremists. Why are they extremists, because they want us to leave them alone and stop bombing them. I don't consider that extremist.

Sorry, using you as a sounding board because I liked what you said. I do not in any way wish you to think that I believe you are one of those bigots, exactly the opposite is true. If we had free energy and didn't need oil, we would leave Arabia so fast it would make your head spin, we don't care about them and our leaders don't care about us, at least that is what I see. Peace.

reply to post by AQuestion


Thank you.
I think you may be right. I suspect that there may be even more behind the tensions because there are power hungry leaders of religions and peoples everywhere. I think there is a large part of the population in the Middle East that is really victim, stuck in between the big boys battles over oil and power.

On both sides of the earth, we have a large part of the peoples being manipulated in that.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

The creation of these extremists and terrorists has less to do with Sharia Laws than our own activities over in the ME.

'Terrorist apologist?'

What a joke. You want to ignore every other reason for Muslim or Arab terrorism and blame it all on the Sharia laws or Koran. Just because you can't understand something doesn't mean it isn't accurate. Koranic verse and Sharia Law have been around for 1400 years and yet the anti-Western terrorists have come along in the 20th Century.

The British occupied Basra, Qatar, Palestine, Libya and Bahrain in the 20th Century. The US got involved to strengthen NATO and keep the Soviets at bay. This is before oil became the focus and we began to install puppet governments and use the region as a security zone. Although it was a UN plan to partition Palestine, the US has had the brunt of the blame. Millions of Arabs were displaced in this process and given the fact it's within living memory....some are still a bit miffed. Now if we also remember how we backed dictatorships like Saddam Hussein and various Ayatollahs, you might just begin to accept that terrorists aren't created by a few words in the Koran.

I'm against any flavour of terrorism and I'm against your argument that history and politics have no influence on the activities of societies or terrorists.

What you are doing is lumping the actions of these extremists in with a a group or society and not allowing them as individuals to be responsible for their own actions. It really matters not what history has said about or done to the Muslims that cause these extreme factions to be created ( and yes, I do agree these things do effect them as a group But - At the end of the day it's the individuals who makes a conscious decision to harm others in the name of their religious beliefs. As individuals they can choose not to embrace hate.

reply to post by Kandinsky



Kandinsky, as you seem to be well read on these extremist factions, I publicly invite you to my thread below to get your opinion on the user Dnepropetrovsk's comments. Perhaps you can help shed some light on his view.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix
Over the weeks, I've read several of your posts and you actually share the same ideas as those you condemn in the Middle East. You just don't realise it.

You've supported pre-emptive strikes on the ME and putting all Muslims in the US into camps. Rather than see the Muslim world as a billion individuals with the same differences as any other population, you want to define them all as the extremists who riot. You want to characterise them all as pushing Sharia Law and wanting to convert the word to Islam.

Now from a Muslim extremist's point of view, he'll see all Westerners as deserving death or imprisonment. He'll believe all Christians want to destroy his religion. He'd support a pre-emptive strike on the US without batting an eye. He'd ignore the fact that people are different and hold different values. He'd ignore any historical context and wouldn't seek to inform, but would seek confirmation of his cast-in-stone belief that the West is a threat that should be destroyed.

Your views and the extremist views are two sides of the same coin.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Over the weeks, I've read several of your posts and you actually share the same ideas as those you condemn in the Middle East. You just don't realise it.

You've supported pre-emptive strikes on the ME and putting all Muslims in the US into camps. Rather than see the Muslim world as a billion individuals with the same differences as any other population, you want to define them all as the extremists who riot. You want to characterise them all as pushing Sharia Law and wanting to convert the word to Islam.

Now from a Muslim extremist's point of view, he'll see all Westerners as deserving death or imprisonment. He'll believe all Christians want to destroy his religion. He'd support a pre-emptive strike on the US without batting an eye. He'd ignore the fact that people are different and hold different values. He'd ignore any historical context and wouldn't seek to inform, but would seek confirmation of his cast-in-stone belief that the West is a threat that should be destroyed.

Your views and the extremist views are two sides of the same coin.

I share the same opinion.
JohnPhoenix, I don't mean that as an insult. I am aware of the difficulties we have, as humans, in trying to not become self contradicting or hypocritical- it is so very hard to focus on anything with passion without becoming it!

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Over the weeks, I've read several of your posts and you actually share the same ideas as those you condemn in the Middle East. You just don't realise it.

You've supported pre-emptive strikes on the ME and putting all Muslims in the US into camps. Rather than see the Muslim world as a billion individuals with the same differences as any other population, you want to define them all as the extremists who riot. You want to characterise them all as pushing Sharia Law and wanting to convert the word to Islam.

Now from a Muslim extremist's point of view, he'll see all Westerners as deserving death or imprisonment. He'll believe all Christians want to destroy his religion. He'd support a pre-emptive strike on the US without batting an eye. He'd ignore the fact that people are different and hold different values. He'd ignore any historical context and wouldn't seek to inform, but would seek confirmation of his cast-in-stone belief that the West is a threat that should be destroyed.

Your views and the extremist views are two sides of the same coin.

I just love how you take my posts out of context and actually misrepresent my views. Yes, I support putting Muslims in America in camps in case war breaks out for their own protection and to better help distinguish them from and protect Americans from the Extremist Muslims who are hiding in the Muslim population.

The point being, if you can't identify the clear enemy you will be attacked from any quarter you cannot defend against.

I proposed a pre-emptive strike not on the middle east, or all Muslims, but only those extremist factions once we are able to identify clearly who among the Muslims are the Muslim extremist and who pose a threat.

I certainly do not characterize all Muslims as pushers of Sharia Law and wanting to convert the world to Islam. I have stated time and time again that this is the Muslim Extremist view and there are even groups of millions of Muslims that do not support Sharia Law such as those involved with the Act For America organization of which I am a supporter. Act for America even helped draft the American Laws for American Courts legislation, you see from the thread in my sig file. This legislation - was crafted by Freedom loving American Muslims who don't want to be subjugated by the extremist Muslim Sharia Law.

Act for America is not an American organization as most people think of it.. It is an American Muslim organization. Act stands for American Congress For Truth. These Muslims in America want the differences between true Muslims and extremist Muslims to be known.

I suggest you get your facts straight and stop making up lies, it doesn't become you.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix
To your way of thinking, putting US Muslims into camps 'for their own protection' makes sense. To me, I wonder who you wish to protect them from? If a Muslim nation did the same to Christians, non-Muslims or Americans wouldn't that offend you?

'In case war breaks out?' Pre-emptive strikes are a pretty good way to ensure some type of war will break out in the first place. Again, let's say a Muslim group or country uses pre-emptive strikes on US assets or people? Wouldn't you be offended and probably ready for declaring war?

I certainly do not characterize all Muslims as pushers of Sharia Law and wanting to convert the world to Islam.

Well this is good to see and somewhat lost in the translation when I read some of your posts. I guess when we've got all the Muslims locked away and safe behind the fences, you could let them know that it's only because of the minority that they're in detention/internment camps.

Yeah, pre-emptive strikes and pre-emptive internment for potential threats and guilt-by-association is a smart way to bring about peace.

reply to post by Kandinsky


The core problem was how do you differentiate between the law abiding Muslims and the extremist Muslims in the case of a war. The Quran and Sharia Law says it's acceptable for Muslims to lie and deceive to reach their goals of Jihad. Therefore putting these people in camps, a controlled finite space, not allowing them to roam the country, then sorting them out was my solution. You would protect American Muslims and Other Americans alike from in country terrorist activity.

I then ( I think in that same thread) asked the question, IF that is a bad idea then, What is a better solution? I conceded that it may not have been my best idea. I didn't get any real serious replies on this. I wanted to find the best most workable solution the American people would be comfortable with.

Knowing the Muslim extremist can lie and deceive because it is acceptable to Sharia Law .. and you don't like my putting them in camps idea - then what would YOU do to solve this problem?

reply to post by AQuestion


Frankly I am amazed that anyone watched it. I couldn't even bear to watch one minute, it sucked that much.

And I knew it was a controversial piece, yet I still couldn't be bothered too.

Yet some people came across this not knowing what it was, yet still watched it completely and spread the word.

Amazing.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix
There are already laws and agencies in place to arrest and charge potential terrorists. More laws or fewer freedoms?

Rounding up all Muslims and interning them in camps would be morally wrong and would not only unite moderate Muslims against the US, but likely every other nation on the planet would disapprove too. That'd be a very high price to pay for your peace of mind, John, and a horrible victory for the extremists.

I don't know how it's all going to end and I'm not sure if any of our politicians and leaders are brave enough to say no to extreme measures. In that I include Muslim politicians and leaders. It's too big a mess for two guys on the internet to come up with a solution. Let's hope we all can come away from the brink before it's too late...

(I thought you might find this interesting > Jihad and the Islamic Law of war. Straight from the horse's mouth )

Originally posted by Bluesma
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Thank you.

I think you may be right. I suspect that there may be even more behind the tensions because there are power hungry leaders of religions and peoples everywhere. I think there is a large part of the population in the Middle East that is really victim, stuck in between the big boys battles over oil and power.

On both sides of the earth, we have a large part of the peoples being manipulated in that.

Dear Bluesma,

I am in Los Angeles, so far from France that we will probably never meet and you are still cute. People like us better when we don't spend all our time killing them. How surprising. We don't kill over religion, we kill over money. Hispanics are usually Catholic, the Arab Muslims don't kill them; but, then Hispanics are not bombing Arabs, could there be a reason? could there be a connection between our killing people and their not liking us? I don't support killing and no Muslim attacks me,what am I to make of this?

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

There are already laws and agencies in place to arrest and charge potential terrorists.

I hope your right but I can't help but feel that isn't going to be good enough. If you have a terrorist group so intermingled with regular folks and because of their religion telling them they can lie and deceive ( Allah is on their side when they lie and deceive) and this group has lived like this for centuries and built up the art of deception because they have a strong religious interest vested in it, I don't think they will be so easily found out. These combinations make them potentially more dangerous than any other terrorist group the US has ever faced.

I'll take a look at your link - keeping an open mind and examine who's angle it's written from.

Originally posted by AQuestion


Dear Bluesma,

I am in Los Angeles, so far from France that we will probably never meet and you are still cute.

People like us better when we don't spend all our time killing them. How surprising. We don't kill over religion, we kill over money. Hispanics are usually Catholic, the Arab Muslims don't kill them; but, then Hispanics are not bombing Arabs, could there be a reason? could there be a connection between our killing people and their not liking us? I don't support killing and no Muslim attacks me,what am I to make of this?

Well, I have no answers. But I am originally from LA and Orange County! I started my life in Whittier, in an all mexican neighborhood, I was not exposed to racism. My parents were hippies.

Then I moved to France, and I did not have any inkling of prejudice concerning the arabs here (biggest muslim population in Europe). I was rather interested in them and found much about their culture interesting, exotic and beautiful.

Then Desert Storm started. The arab neighborhood nearby found out I was american. So we started to have rocks thrown at us, our six year old was jumped by a group of them and beat up, our house was vandalized, and then two times the front of the house burned and damaged by homemade bombs.
They would yell at us and call us "facist americans".

The people doing this were the young male muslim (second generation) immigrants. They suffer some of the types of identity problems black people went through. They have problems figuring out who and what they are and what they are a part of. There is frustration.

Many of them are turning to fanatic groups for the same reason young men in the hispanic barrio do- to feel part of something, to feel protected and powerful, and to have an outlet through which to express their hostility and frustration.

These guys that were doing this to us didn't really know much of what was going on in the Middle East. Many of them had never been to the Middle East. It is the home of their anscestors, that they hear about and idealize.
All they knew was America was the enermy, and this gave them an excuse to act out the violence they felt.

It was just an opportunity they grabbed. Sometimes our claimed reasons or motivations are not the deeper real ones......

reply to post by AQuestion


It's understandable you are confused.

You see: the video has nothing to do with muslim savagery and murder.

islam promotes murder and savagery and will use any excuse.

I'd wager that 99.999999% of the savages screaming in the streets and murdering people "over this video" have not seen one second of it.

It's just the same thing over and over again: rumors of ANY offense against islam (whether some video, or a koran desecration, or cartoons, , or a book, or movies) are met with savage, mindless violence.

How many Christian families have been burned to death in their homes because of a rumor of koran desecration? How many families have gone into hiding because the death cult has decided they committed an intolerable offense?

And more importantly, how long is the civilized world willing to tolerate this death cult?