The Accusations Are True ATS - I Do Have An Agenda And I Have Been Manipulating You! My Confession.

What'd he say? I stopped reading after the title.

I got that free mind quality.

That's funny, I thought I had been doing it you under different names...

Human race are all prisoners of power. We are drunk on it. We cant escape its construct. We are forever locked in its repeating cycle or Weben flow.

Whoa there Mr. Manipulator Man. I agree wholeheartedly with you. Every missive ever misved was intended to manipulate.

The point of manipulation is to have a willful commitment on the part of the one being manipulated, to the purpose of the manipulation. Lead and reward, I think is the best method. Thinking is generally bad. You want to discourage that. Well it's a fine art, manipulation, and some excellent practitioners are out there.

Since manipulation is the order of the day in our media driven existence, a good primer is in order as to how to detect and side step this certainty of today's reality. I don't have the answer as to how this primer would be written, but if I did, I'd charge for it.

Not to get lengthy here, but a good solid core of principles is said to come in handy in the manipulation battles. However these can lead to brittleness and that is not really good for the long term. I say just be aware. each manipulation is greeted with a counter manipulation, and negotiation ensues. It's a natural process just be aware. don't be snookered.

WOW! 12 pages of comments ... and counting. I read and laugh and laugh as this reminds me of a long time ago in a place far away when I sold vacuums. thinking and manipulation was our weapons. When you have but seconds to take in a persons mood, character, motivation and weaknesses and come up with the approach. We either act on something or react to it. Manipulation by family, friends, coworkers, media, government and religious institutions happen from the moment you wake up till the time you finish typing in some thread before off to bed. It's a jungle out there. Hone yours skills and get your thrills people.... but play nice.

WOW! 12 pages of comments ... and counting. I read and laugh and laugh as this reminds me of a long time ago in a place far away when I sold vacuums. thinking and manipulation was our weapons. When you have but seconds to take in a persons mood, character, motivation and weaknesses and come up with the approach. We either act on something or react to it. Manipulation by family, friends, coworkers, media, government and religious institutions happen from the moment you wake up till the time you finish typing in some thread before off to bed. It's a jungle out there. Hone yours skills and get your thrills people.... but play nice.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Everything I have ever posted was heartfelt and true. The "experiment" aspect, if there is one, is that I am self-aware enough to know that I (as we all do) use manipulation techniques to express myself and to try and win others over.

As stated previously there has been a period of time, recently, when just about every point I tried to make got countered with "You're a mod" or "You're a shill" or "You're working for ( insert Alphabet Agency here ) and those ad homs kind of stymied me. To refute them was to fall into the trap. To ignore was to do so also. I felt manipulated by it. Then, it dawned upon me... it's all manipulation - communication, in and of itself, really is just a means of manipulating. Add that thought to the research I've done on social engineering and mind control... and this little lark of a thread idea was born.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide




Thanks for the Confession, Heff........................





S&F

reply to post by Staroth


Stupidity is not something I cover up. If I discover it in myself, or others, I tend more to set it on fire and try to burn it out. Fire being knowledge and information.

~Heff

reply to post by freelance_zenarchist


I truly lack the ego to talk down. But after a long life of dealing with people I learned the hard way not to make assumptions about what they may already know or not know given any subject - so for communication sake I always try to add texture and background.

Some folks you can hand a shovel to, and point - and they dig a hole. Others want to know why they're digging. Others might say "I've never used a shovel"...etc.

Nothing condescending about it - just speaking to a wide audience, so I engaged in a broad explanation.

~Heff

Originally posted by flashtrum

Exactly. And I'm not sure what the OP was trying to say by posting a pic of a puppy followed by Hitler. Didn't do a whole lot for me.

If I neglected to say so in the OP (Though I think I did) I Googled images quite quickly, ones I knew would potentially elicit an emotional response - and then posted them in no particular order. I did this deliberately to avoid any claims of agenda.

Pick any of twenty or thirty current threads and you can find pictures of Muslims which are means to elicit a very visceral and immediate emotional response. That is what I was seeking to avoid by randomizing the pictures.

For record... I adore puppies and hate Nazis. Haven't encountered a Nazi puppy yet, so that is an unknown.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


Nice response, I don't come to ats much anymore due to the lower vibrations and more younger souls on here with more learning to do. Ats have heaps of gov trolls which manipulate. When you get to the higher spiritual sites you will get the pro disinformation channelers. Discernment and knowledge is the way to grow. Answer with your heart. If it doesn't resonate with your heart it's not your truth. Remember each soul is at different levels and the learning to be as such. When you are ready for higher knowledge you will seek out more knowledge and wisdom. It's Immportant to note the cabal will try anything in these last days the dark will try to sway as many as they can before the end of lower vibrations on earth.
Love and light from your freindly paa-tal frenzy

reply to post by Hefficide


Just because communication provides the means to manipulate, doesn't mean all communication is manipulation.

That's a rather morbid view of society.

Interesting rationalization, but not my style of viewing it.

reply to post by followtheevidence

Originally posted by followtheevidence
I'm not really grasping your premise Heff.

I mean, does simply eliciting a response qualify as manipulation?

Yes. But the qualifier is that not all manipulation has nefarious purpose. We are ingrained with self, and in pursuit of comfort for ourselves, we manipulate. This is the natural order and the vast majority of manipulations that we engage in are simply seeking gratification.

Originally posted by followtheevidence
Anything we do, virtually anything we do will elicit SOME sort of response from someone. I mean, we react to things. How to distinguish between simply responding to our environment vs. being manipulated by our environment?

That can be a tough call to make and is usually differentiated based upon the motives of those in your environment. A teenage child, for example, asking for the keys to run to the store for ice cream is barely manipulating. One making that same request knowing full well they're going to actually buy beer or drugs? A much more serious manipulation.

Originally posted by followtheevidence

You mentioned "manipulating" said ATS user into reading/posting on your thread ... couldn't they simply be interested enough to read it? Why does it have to be a matter of manipulation?

Just a tool of dialogue based upon previously mentioned fact. Often when I engage in debate and gain the other hand, the ad hom of "You're a mod" or "You're a shill" is tossed out. I thought I'd use that phenomenon as a teaser title for my thread. Just a personal lark really.

Originally posted by followtheevidence

I'm confused. This all seems rather ambiguous. Care to clarify?

Not terribly so - as you see how much rage simple ambiguity engendered in some!

Imagine if I'd have actually spent time writing this with NLP techniques in mind....

~Heff

reply to post by moniesisfun


Not all communication is manipulation, but much of it is.

Another form of manipulation that is common, especially on ATS, is evident in the replies as well. Count the number of "Didn't read it", "OP is an ass", "X number of flags for this tripe"? Type replies. These are also deliberate manipulations, based in ego or agenda, take your choice.

A simple "I disagree with your position/assessment" shows at least that the member read the material and commented honestly. The ad hom posts? Just attempts to manipulate browsing members into summary dismissal of the information with no real stated reason for it.

It's like a high school "Don't talk to that kid, he doesn't dress like a cool kid" thing, but in this venue.

And to be fair vacant "back patting" posts that simply say "Great thread!" and nothing more are the same. attempts to manipulate readers into blind acceptance of the OP.

~Heff

You know I find that some of the greatest mental manipulators out there are average joes, many of whom don't even realize that they're such good manipulators. There are many forms of manipulation, attempts to control others and sometimes these attempts have a long range agenda, others times they serve a spontaneous purpose, nonetheless I find all these tactics... Disturbing.

Lies are a primary means of manipulation, there is no such thing as a big or small lie in my opinion, in my world intentional deception is considered murder. When you intentionally lie to someone you are attempting to control their actions by controlling the information which they believe to be true. People generally formulate their actions based upon their knowledge, but if you are controlling this knowledge then you are controlling them, manipulating their actions. This is more of a logical form of manipulation, the manipulation of information or knowledge.

There are more emotional forms of manipulation such as ridicule and degradation. People tend to seek acceptance and in many cases are willing to go to the extremes to obtain such. Make a person feel as if they are not welcome or are unacceptable and in many instances they will be willing to make changes, changes demanded by those who would cast them out. This is a risky road though, if they do not find acceptance in the general population, which is a form of unconscious mass control, they might find acceptance in the hands of someone such as Charles Manson and if so they're likely to view him as their savior because he saved them from being an outcast, saved them from their peers.

Obviously you can pull a persons strings by manipulating their source of survival which might be food, water or in todays case money. You see basic elements such as food and water are available all around you, money is a method by which the general population manipulates your source of survival, if you do not have money then you cannot have the basic elements of survival, even killing your own deer requires taxes be paid on said deer. You certainly could walk outside, kill yourself a deer and eat it, but you'd be breaking the law and the general population will punish you for not falling in line. You certainly could find a plot of empty land and grow yourself a garden, but you'd be breaking the law and thus the general population will hurt you for feeding yourself.

Mind control is all about who's in control of your body. When someone lies to you they are in control of your knowledge, your actions and thus your body. When someone denies your right to exist they are attempting to beat you emotionally, to hurt you until you give up control of your body to those who demand it belong to them, the general population. When you are refused survival because you have no money it's not actually because you have no money, but because you have no source of income. If you have no money it is assumed that you are not working for the will of the general population and thus do not deserve to exist. This is what I would call the primary means the general population wields control over the individual, you must bow before the demands of the general population, if they do not want to buy what you have to offer then you'd best do something else that they are willing to pay for. If you refuse to do as you are told you will lose your home, your belongings, your friends and likely your family, they will take your life if you do not hand it over to them willingly, all of them.

Top 12 advertising companies from business insider 6/22/2011.

JP Morgan Chase spent $1.92 billion on ads:

This was a 42.9% increase from 2009.
TV: $273 million
Magazines: $60 million
Newspapers: $92 million
Internet: $37 million
Other: $1.46 billion
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Walt Disney Co. spent $1.93 billion on ads

This was a 1.5% decrease from 2009.
TV: $546 million
Magazines: $178 million
Newspapers: $88 million
Internet: $187 million
Other: $933 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

L'Oreal spent $1.98 billion on ads

This was a 7.6% increase from 2009.
TV: $537 million
Magazines: $566 million
Newspapers: $39 million
Internet: $9 million
Other: $829 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Johnson & Johnson spent $2.03 billion on ads

This was a 1.7% decrease from 2009.
TV: $805 million
Magazines: $293 million
Newspapers: $41 million
Internet: $50 million
Other: $837 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Time Warner spent $2.04 billion on ads

This was a 9.1% increase from 2009.
TV: $699 million
Magazines: $260 million
Newspapers: $97 million
Internet: $63 million
Other: $925 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Walmart spent $2.06 billion on ads

This was a 0.9% increase from 2009.
TV: $524 million
Magazines: $192 million
Newspapers: $45 million
Internet: $58 million
Other: $1.24 billion
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Pfizer spent $2.12 billion on ads

This was a 1.3% increase from 2009.
TV: $831 million
Magazines: $333 million
Newspapers: $66 million
Internet: $46 million
Other: $847 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

American Express spent $2.22 billion on ads

This was a 62.8% increase from 2009.
TV: $228 million
Magazines: $63 million
Newspapers: $130 million
Internet: $132 million
Other: $1.67 billion
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Verizon spent $2.45 billion on ads:

This was a 18.8% decrease from 2009.
TV: $1.11 billion
Magazines: $87 million
Newspapers: $291 million
Internet: $169 million
Other: $798 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

General Motors spent $2.87 billion on ads:

This was a 16.6% increase from 2009.
TV: $1.20 billion
Magazines: $410 million
Newspapers: $246 million
Internet: $240 million
Other: $772 million
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

AT&T spent $2.99 billion on ads:

This was a 7.2% increase from 2009.
TV: $1.52 billion
Magazines: $49 million
Newspapers: $215 million
Internet: $140 million
Other: $1.07 billion
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

Proctor & Gamble spent $3.34 billion on ads

This was a 17.9% increase from 2009.
TV: $1.85 billion
Magazines: $1.01 billion
Newspapers: $203 million
Internet: $169 million
Other: $1.30 billion
Source: AdAge 100 Leading National Advertisers Index

The top company, P+G, had revenue of about 83 bil. and profits of 12B in 2011.money.cnn.com...

Interesting observation, you don't see a lot of oil advertising on TV. Those are all the top companies by revenue. I guess car companies take care of that for them, plus they have those big signs on the street.



You all need beauty products so you aren't disgusting, go get them at Wal-Mart and pay with AMEX. Now that you look so good, call all of you pals on a Verizon phone and go party.

Don't worry if you get rejected at the bar, you can always cheer up with a Disney movie on cable TV.

Sad part, that seems to be a pretty common lifestyle.


Relation to current events:

Glamour advertising like those above manipulates public attitude and increases political apathy, making it easier for the establishment to act with unquestioned freedom.

reply to post by Hefficide


Interesting to say the least, I wish I could star & flag you 1000 times over, because I've seen the same thing, or nearly the same thing as you on ATS & mass media; I saw through the smoke because, it's me and I won't go into detail.

However, this post confirms what I think and thought is happening in the USA...especially with the LEO's in America. They prod, and prep, prod some more.. prep in case we bite.

IMO: America is being 'prodded' into NOT trusting those in Law Enforcement, on a grand scale, yes, there are cases out there that are real, but, how real are ALL of them?

Americans are being prodded into trying to start something and those that bite, will be the accused and those that did the prodding will point the finger and say "it was THEM' that started it~!!!" all the while sitting back in a cloak of false darkness in glee because 'the goals' were met.

I implore all members to go the link in my sig (if the site is still active as of this post); it points to what Heff saying directly IMO, follow the colors where the ALL of the colors come together...and zoom in.

It's time to wake up, but, not giving in to my emotions about it, is entirely another thing. 9/11 was the grandest manipulation in America to date.

Thx you Heff.

If the opinions you bolster were correct then you wouldn't need to resort to the pathetic tactics you do.

Better part of valor.

reply to post by PatheticAyTeEs


If by "pathetic tactics" you mean a shocking and grabbing headline, then you're about 200 years behind the times of standard advertisement and propaganda technology. In my case I utilized it in the very ironic pursuit of pointing the very thing out.

~Heff