If you are Black AND a Muslim, you should read this!

reply to post by Nana2


No, I didn't read the link because your point is nonsense. And I know the history. The buyer and sellers are no worse, completely complicit. The Christians provided the guns that turned Africa upside down. Christians preceded to colonize Africa in the 1800's. Christians were enslaving them overtly until1865, segregationally until 1963, and economically until today. You really can't see the link between slavery, segregation, discrimination, and current African American poverty? African Americans couldn't buy a house in a decent school district 50 years ago.

By the way, most African Americans are Christian, so why are you picking on a small segment? Why not allow some black communities to identify with a tradition other than the one that owned them as masters for a few hundred years. And why not allow them to choose a tradition that exists in high numbers among native Africans.

Honestly, you sound very bias and racist.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't even believe I'm arguing this.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
Misleading thread once again justifying the actions of religions that have cause an equivalent or greater amount of damage to society. Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism are much older than Islam...therefore Islam cannot be the 'ring' leader of slavery.

Part of the info came from David Livingston, (famous missionary) who was actually THERE doing the time.

Most UM mooseslums are recruited in prison where having total control over women and anyone that doesn't agree with you looks pretty darned good

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
You could just as easily ask Europeans/white people why they all belong to a Church that has historically dominated and oppressed millions.

Thats not the point of this thread. Two wrongs dont make a right. The point of this thread is to ask the question- Why would you follow a religion that has a history of genocide, as well as enslavement , towards your people, all while you complain about similiar treatment from another group (whites)?

Get it? I dont see how they justify it?

The blacks might have suffered from Islamic invasions but modern history shows us that the whites have caused alot more suffering to blacks to this very day compared to Islam. Even if we follow the death toll figures you mentioned on your link, the whites alone were responsible for more than that just within the past century.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

No, I didn't read the link because your point is nonsense. And I know the history. The buyer and sellers are no worse, completely complicit. The Christians provided the guns that turned Africa upside down. Christians preceded to colonize Africa in the 1800's. Christians were enslaving them overtly until1865, segregationally until 1963, and economically until today. You really can't see the link between slavery, segregation, discrimination, and current African American poverty? African Americans couldn't buy a house in a decent school district 50 years ago.

By the way, most African Americans are Christian, so why are you picking on a small segment? Why not allow some black communities to identify with a tradition other than the one that owned them as masters for a few hundred years. And why not allow them to choose a tradition that exists in high numbers among native Africans.

Honestly, you sound very bias and racist.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't even believe I'm arguing this.

You made my point exactly! Why would they follow ANY religion, that of whites, who admittedly have a bad history with treatment of them, OR that of islam, who ALSO has a bad history with their people? There is no difference, but for this thread's sake, I ONLY ASKED ABOUT THE MUSLIM PART!

That does not mean I think other religions should get a pass. Just narrowing it down.

Now I am laughing, WHAT exactly did I say that was racist or biased?? Can you quote me just one of my sentences where I did?

The old race card, never gets old to you people does it? When you can't legitamately argue a point you go back to that. I must have hit a nerve with you, are you a muslim who can't admit the evils of your own religion?

And what difference does it make to you, OP, if a group of African Americans decide to worship in a mosque with the Koran instead of a church with the bible? Especially if they are doing it peacefully, which the vast majority do.

Edit after reading above: you sound racist because the entire undertone of this thread is that black people are making an illogical choice in religion. And you're saying Islam is evil. Both bias and racist. And wrong.

Originally posted by forklift

Originally posted by Nana2

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
You could just as easily ask Europeans/white people why they all belong to a Church that has historically dominated and oppressed millions.

Thats not the point of this thread. Two wrongs dont make a right. The point of this thread is to ask the question- Why would you follow a religion that has a history of genocide, as well as enslavement , towards your people, all while you complain about similiar treatment from another group (whites)?

Get it? I dont see how they justify it?

The blacks might have suffered from Islamic invasions but modern history shows us that the whites have caused alot more suffering to blacks to this very day compared to Islam. Even if we follow the death toll figures you mentioned on your link, the whites alone were responsible for more than that just within the past century.

okaaaaay, what are those figures of the "more suffering to blacks" that you state. More than the 120 million africans killed by muslims during the invasions mentioned of this thread? Would love to see your proof on that.

You are trying to turn this into a "whitey is evil" conversation. It is NOT about who else may have done something to blacks, it's about why they will follow a religion that has such a horrible past with their people?

But as usual, any mention of liil towards blacks, ALWAYS come around as how horrible whites are. Do you see any amends being made by muslims towards blacks for what they Did??? In contrast, in the last 50 years how FAR has America come to right her wrongs in this area? How much more can we do?

beleive it or not, whites have suffered as well throughout history. Again, it is not about WHO has caused the most suffering to whom!

reply to post by Nana2


I'm not a Muslim, but I've read the Koran some and think it's great. I also think Muhammad is great. I also think the Bible is great. And Jesus is great.

People generally feel a divine presence and want to come together as a community to pay homage to it. Whether they do it as Muslims or Christians is inconsequential. God is God.

Joining Islam means a connection to 1.5 billion people worldwide. That should provide some insight on why others might consider it.

Originally posted by luciddream
I don;t think most American Black Muslims are really hardcore Muslims or whether they follow anything.

I challenge you to walk through certain parts of Philadelphia .. like around the town hall or near Hard Rock .. and then come back and tell us what you think. Your opinion might be changed.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
And what difference does it make to you, OP, if a group of African Americans decide to worship in a mosque with the Koran instead of a church with the bible? Especially if they are doing it peacefully, which the vast majority do.

Edit after reading above: you sound racist because the entire undertone of this thread is that black people are making an illogical choice in religion. And you're saying Islam is evil. Both bias and racist. And wrong.

edit on 9/19/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

ok, I am saying islam is evil, do I REALLY need to point you to all the Qu'ran passages that repeatedly advocate killing, behading, etc anyone who doesnt beleive like they do?. If you can find any thing in THAT to show me that islam is peaceful, please do. I am listening.

What difference does it make to me what religion blacks follow? NONE. I am simply curious about this subject. I could have just as easily asked why other people follow what religion they do. But THIS thread happens to be about blacks. So therefore, god forbid I must be racist.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

I'm not a Muslim, but I've read the Koran some and think it's great. I also think Muhammad is great. I also think the Bible is great. And Jesus is great.

People generally feel a divine presence and want to come together as a community to pay homage to it. Whether they do it as Muslims or Christians is inconsequential. God is God.

Joining Islam means a connection to 1.5 billion people worldwide. That should provide some insight on why others might consider it.

edit on 9/19/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

Holy Crap! All I can say to you is:
God's curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God's own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers.

Quran 2:89-2:90, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 13

Lord...Give us victory over the unbelievers.Quran 2:286, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 46

"Lord...give us victory over the unbelievers."

Quran 3:148, "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 67

I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.Quran 8:12, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 177

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.Quran 9:5; "Repentance," Dawood, p. 186

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Quran 9:73, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 198

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206

Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.
Quran 4:56, "Women," Dawood, p. 86

Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain and crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.
Quran 5:33, "The Table," Dawood, p. 112

When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.
Quran 47:4, "Muhammad," Dawood, p. 506

Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy...Quran 8:59-60, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 183

Believers, take neither the jewish people nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers.
Quran 5:51, "The Table," Dawood, p. 116

Believers, know that the idolaters [non-Muslims] are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended.

Quran 9:28, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 190

The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Bible] and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.
Quran 98:6, "The Proof," Dawood, p. 598

Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please.

Quran 2:223, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 34

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.
Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83

A male shall inherit twice as much as a female.

Quran 4:11, "Women," Dawood, p. 77

[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves.
Quran 4:24, "Women," Dawood, p. 81

If you fear that you cannot treat [orphan girls] with fairness, then you may marry other women who seem good to you: two, three, or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot maintain equality among them, marry one only or any slave-girl you may own.
Quran 4:3, "Women," Dawood, p. 76
Even more quotes from your "gloriuos leaders"
Quotes by and about Some of Islam's Most Famous Spokesmen
[Muhammad] said, "...fight everyone in the way of God and kill those who disbelieve in God..."

Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, p. 672

Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220

The Prophet used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 6

The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64

It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven.
Ayatollah Khomeini

reply to post by Nana2


I said you sound racist, not that you are racist.

The Koran needs to be taken in context. There are some questionable passages, but when read from a 21st century perspective these could easily be taken metaphorically. All that requires is advocates among the community, which exist. Muslims should be allowed to follow the tradition and read the book of the man who united Arabia and was considered a messenger of God.

There are plenty of positive passages as well.

And in my opinion, scripture is highly overrated in all religions. Islam can evolve and be a viable spiritual tradition for the future.

reply to post by Nana2


I know all this, there are contradictory verses in nearly every case. Research with an open mind instead of running a google search for violence in the Koran.

www.ummah.com...


The bible has some stuff about the fate of non-believers, no?

The overall philosophy of Islam with regard to an individuals relationship with God is better, in my opinion. Christianity centers around the savior, son of God. Islam is more direct to God itself.

Originally posted by lucid eyes
Liberals have brainwashed blacks to believe that Arabs are good and White Americans are bad. The reality of course, is that Arabs are some of the most racist people around and in some parts still practice slavery on Africans. Dont expect to read it in Huffington Post, New York Times or other vanguards of leftist propaganda.

Israelis are some of the most racist people in the world, African Jews are classed as 'fake Jews' and are abused and deported back outa israel.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

I know all this, there are contradictory verses in nearly every case. Research with an open mind instead of running a google search for violence in the Koran.

www.ummah.com...

edit on 9/19/2012 by PatrickGarrow17 because: (no reason given)

well then ,oh wise man, expound to us exactly WHAT does it mean all of the above? I would genuinely like to know. Are you saying that these verses should not be there? What does "contradictory" mean to you?

And yes I have also researched the beautiful verses of the Quran. DO you really think those verses apply to anyone except muslims? Those certainly are not beautiful words intended for the "infidels" now are they?

reply to post by Nana2


Those verses amount for a small portion of the total message of the Koran. Let's talk about the Muslims themselves, who in America are peaceful at well over 99%.

Muhammad had a message that he really believed in and a vision of empire. It reflects in the book. It's about context. There are other verses that equalize all monotheists. Plenty of stuff about charity and brotherhood among believers.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

I said you sound racist, not that you are racist.

The Koran needs to be taken in context. There are some questionable passages, but when read from a 21st century perspective these could easily be taken metaphorically. All that requires is advocates among the community, which exist. Muslims should be allowed to follow the tradition and read the book of the man who united Arabia and was considered a messenger of God.

There are plenty of positive passages as well.

And in my opinion, scripture is highly overrated in all religions. Islam can evolve and be a viable spiritual tradition for the future.

Gotcha! Muslims absoulutely be allowed to follow anyone they want, same as with everybody. But come on "questionable passages"??/ You cant get more clear than the HISTORY of your hero who raped little girls -a wife of 9 years old?? Thats ok with you??? If it is, I am sorry for you, really.

Personally i would not follow any religion where the founder endorsed such evil and hatred towards others, (no matter how sweet that person may write towards those who DO follow his religion) OR who has a history of murder towards my own people, WHICH GETS ME BACK TO THE SUBJECT OF MY THREAD. I still havent heard from any black muslims as to Why they do?

I just happen to think its a very interesting study into a segment of human behaviour.

reply to post by Nana2

Whereas MUSLIMS have killing others who don't agree with their religion as one of the core teachings in their religion.

No they do not.
Provide some proof for such.

Originally posted by PatrickGarrow17
reply to post by Nana2

 

Those verses amount for a small portion of the total message of the Koran. Let's talk about the Muslims themselves, who in America are peaceful at well over 99%.

Muhammad had a message that he really believed in and a vision of empire. It reflects in the book. It's about context. There are other verses that equalize all monotheists. Plenty of stuff about charity and brotherhood among believers.

Among beleivers. Thats what I mean, "if you follow me and do what i tell you, even killing others, then you get blessings, and peace and virgins in heaven, and blah blah."

What a cult!

reply to post by Nana2


Are you Christian? Why do you support a religion that killed people to convert them to Christianity many years ago?

There is hypocrisy in your words, friend. Please be aware of them when you speak.