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Originally posted by FlyersFan
If you had bothered to read what I posted ... you'd see that I don't deny that at all.
Chomsky said that Israel and America are the MOST dangerous things on the planet.
That's absurd. I said that STUPIDITY .. EGO .. CORPORATE $$ ... RELIGIOUS FANATICISM ..
they are all equally dangerous and it's impossible to say what the MOST dangerous thing
on the planet is.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
He's the same YUTZ that said America and Israel are the greatest threat to world peace.
Sorry .. but I'm not impressed with his supposed 'genius'.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
That's you not being accurate. Probably for your own emotional reasons.
Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by The Old American
So you think right wing libertarianism is the only way to your so called "freedom"?
Modern libertarian ideology has nothing to do with "right wing"
Right-libertarianism names several related libertarian political philosophies which support private ownership of land and other natural resources, as opposed to ownership by society as a whole or owing payment to society for private appropriation.[1] The term is typically used to differentiate privatist forms of libertarianism from left-libertarianism; which generally supports societal ownership of resources, economic democracy, and egalitarianism.
It's the ideology of rational people
Maybe you should lay off the posting wrong stuff until you can study up
But it also rejects leftist policies, like unchecked welfare, heavy entitlement spending, central planning, and taxing citizens into submission.
Originally posted by The Old American
He's commenting on a subject that he has no clue of. Libertarian ideology is anti-corporatist. Chomsky is against individualism or individual freedom. He's the quintessential progressive liberal.
The original political meanings of ‘left’ and ‘right’ have changed since their origin in the French estates general in 1789. There the people sitting on the left could be viewed as more or less anti-statists with those on the right being state-interventionists of one kind or another. In this interpretation of the pristine sense, libertarianism was clearly at the extreme left-wing.
1. Isn't Libertarian socialism an oxymoron?
In a word, no. This question is often asked by those who have come across the so-called "libertarian" right. As discussed in section A.1.3, the word "libertarian" has been used by anarchists for far longer than the pro-free market right have been using it. Indeed, outside of North America "libertarian" is still essentially used as an equivalent of "anarchist" and as a shortened version of "libertarian socialist."
This in itself does not, of course, prove that the term "libertarian socialist" is free of contradiction. However, as we will show below, the claim that the term is self-contradictory rests on the assumption that socialism requires the state in order to exist and that socialism is incompatible with liberty (and the equally fallacious claim that capitalism is libertarian and does not need the state). This assumption, as is often true of many objections to socialism, is based on a misconception of what socialism is, a misconception that many authoritarian socialists and the state capitalism of Soviet Russia have helped to foster. In reality it is the term "state socialism" which is the true oxymoron.
Originally posted by BABYBULL24
Morrissey’s essays also cover, at length, his correspondence with American’s pre-eminent dissident Noam Chomsky, regarding the JFK assassination conspiracy and cover-up. Morrisey, who has always been one of Chomsky’s greatest admirers, describes his initial dismay at his hero’s categorical rejection of the mountains of irrefutable evidence that the JFK assassination conspiracy originated at the highest levels of government. He was even more troubled, after their lengthy correspondence (published as Looking for the Enemy in 2008), at Chomsky’s inability to rationally justify his position. He initially tended to side with media critics who believe Chomsky plays some deliberate “left gatekeeping” function (having to do with right wing foundation funding).
open.salon.com...
Originally posted by The Old American
But it also rejects leftist policies, like unchecked welfare, heavy entitlement spending, central planning, and taxing citizens into submission.
It's the ideology of rational people. Maybe you should lay off the posting wrong stuff until you can study up. Did you even listen to what he said? "Here "libertarian" means "extreme advocate of total tyranny." Wow, such a genius! You gave me a laugh there, RS. Thanks for posting the biggest piece of crap I've seen in a while
As is well known, anarchists use the terms “libertarian”, “libertarian socialist” and “libertarian communist” as equivalent to “anarchist” and, similarly, “libertarian socialism” or “libertarian communism” as an alternative for “anarchism.” This is perfectly understandable, as the anarchist goal is freedom, liberty, and the ending of all hierarchical and authoritarian institutions and social relations.
Unfortunately, in the United States the term “libertarian” has become, since the 1970s, associated with the right-wing, i.e., supporters of “free-market” capitalism. That defenders of the hierarchy associated with private property seek to associate the term “libertarian” for their authoritarian system is both unfortunate and somewhat unbelievable to any genuine libertarian. Equally unfortunately, thanks to the power of money and the relative small size of the anarchist movement in America, this appropriation of the term has become, to a large extent, the default meaning there. Somewhat ironically, this results in some right-wing “libertarians” complaining that we genuine libertarians have “stolen” their name in order to associate our socialist ideas with it!
Originally posted by RealSpoke
You can play stupid all you want but 99% of people that call themselves libertarians are just right wing ultra-conservatives. Most want to make abortion illegal, against gay marriage, and have no problem voting for wars. Yet claim to be libertarian... Like their god Ron Paul.
Uh...no. If you want to return to the age of the robber baron then be my guest...just don't take the rest of the country with you
Pretty sure you're just mad over me proving you wrong. You thought libertarianism was only your right wing koolaid kind, that's why you had to edit your initial post on the last page. I know what you said, hence why my reply back there now makes really no sense.
Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by The Old American
But it also rejects leftist policies, like unchecked welfare, heavy entitlement spending, central planning, and taxing citizens into submission.
Those are not Leftist policies but Democrat and Republican policies or rather Corporatist policies. Libertarianism has a Left side as well (*waves*) and I wouldn't classify Ron Paul as a true Libertarian though definitely more Libertarian than the majority of DC currently. Capitalism works only for the super rich when regulations are non existent or pulled out of someone's ass. We are seeing the truth of this come into play as the middle class is devoured by the very system it carried on it's back. Free Market was never intended to mean free to make money by any means possible (exploitation). I'm not sure that Ron Paul ever embraced that.
edit on 16-9-2012 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by ANOK
Capitalism in any form is tyranny for many people in the world. "Modern" libertarians see capitalism through rose coloured glasses.
Originally posted by The Old American
OK, throw capitalism out. Replace it with ___________. Remember "in any form" is tyranny, so your proposal can't have ANY links to capitalism whatsoever. I'd really like to see what you come up with.
Originally posted by ANOK
Originally posted by The Old American
OK, throw capitalism out. Replace it with ___________. Remember "in any form" is tyranny, so your proposal can't have ANY links to capitalism whatsoever. I'd really like to see what you come up with.
Worker ownership, so that workers can earn the full fruits of their labour and we can produce for our needs, in a truly free-market.
Originally posted by The Old American
So, communism then. Of course, no corruption can occur in that economic system. No greed. It's all a utopia and everyone's treated fairly and equally, but nobody owns any property. I see now that I'm the one with rose-colored glasses. Thank you.
It may not be the revolution’s dawn, but it’s certainly a glint in the darkness. On Monday, this country’s largest industrial labor union teamed up with the world’s largest worker-cooperative to present a plan that would put people to work in labor-driven enterprises that build worker power and communities, too.
All over the country, people—like the workers of Chicago’s New Era Windows—are building worker-owned cooperatives that root jobs in the communities that need them.
The workers of the just-formed New Era Windows cooperative in Chicago—the same workers who sat in and forced Serious Energy to back down on a hasty shutdown of their Goose Island plant a few months ago, and famously occupied the same factory for six days in December 2008—are doing more than putting together a bold plan for worker ownership. They are likely to move the entire subject into national attention, thereby spurring others to follow on. Though they have a powerful start, if the past is any guide they will need all the help they can get—financial as well as political.
Originally posted by ANOK
I was trying to avoid those terms thinking 'worker ownership' might garner a more positive responce.
Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by The Old American
So you think right wing libertarianism is the only way to your so called "freedom"?
Originally posted by openminded2011
Noam Chomsky, staunch anti capitalist, is worth 2 million. That puts him in the top ten percent of the country. And a guy who rails against the tax system as "using the poor to pay off the rich" isnt afraid to shelter that money in capitalistic tax havens.
www.outsidethebeltway.com...