Abortion: An 11 year old pregnant by mothers dead boyfriend

reply to post by SaturnFX

If yes, it is murder, if no, it is a growth. Brain functions start between 3-5 months (debate point, but no less than 3 months). After which, only in cases of danger to the mothers life. Before the brain functioning, there is no person. After, it is a human being.

That is a very interesting viewpoint on this issue, I had never thought of it that way before.

Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by Exitt

 

An 11 year old child is hardly equipped to make a decision like this. She's just a kid and doesn't yet have the tools to deal with such a decision.

A three year old is a child, an 11 year old (pre)pubescent female with a fetus growing inside of her is a whole different story. I would make a decision together with her not for her.

reply to post by Exitt


I just had a chat with my daughter who is about that age, regarding what she would want to do.

She's beyond her years mind you, but she just replied " do you think any 11 year old is responsible enough to take care of kids? If I was, why do I live here?"

So I'll stand by what I said. I agree discussing it is important, but in the end, I know what's best for my child when it comes to things like pregnancy at 11.

~Tenth

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

If yes, it is murder, if no, it is a growth. Brain functions start between 3-5 months (debate point, but no less than 3 months). After which, only in cases of danger to the mothers life. Before the brain functioning, there is no person. After, it is a human being.

That is a very interesting viewpoint on this issue, I had never thought of it that way before.

the question used to torture me in my younger days...funnily enough, it was anti-abortion dogma that lead me to this stance. I had to conclude what life was (brain activity...I am also in favor of turning off machines for people whom have no brain functions as there is no life).

So, its a pure science outlook. a person is a active brain, without it, its a growth...with potential to become a person should it be left alone (equal to how a sperm can have potential to be a person also...I abort sperm regularly though with no problems)

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

So I'll stand by what I said. I agree discussing it is important, but in the end, I know what's best for my child when it comes to things like pregnancy at 11.

~Tenth

I understand as i feel the same as you do, but hypothetically speaking if this happened to my daughter and she strongly disagreed with abortion for whatever reason, i would support her decision and help her all the way. I would not force her to abort, that's just something i could never be able to do even if i thought it was a bad decision.

reply to post by Exitt


Yes, I agree it's not like I would ask her " does this smell like choloroform to you?" and then she wakes up missing a kidney or something like

But I would not want my 11 year old to have a child, under any circumstances, so I would do my best to discourage her line of thought if she did indeed believe that was a good idea.

I think were both on the same page.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


You also have to take the risk to her health/life into consideration. A pregnancy at that young age and her presumably small frame could hurt her.
Im afraid that I would have to be the parent and make the decision to do it myself, for her safety.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
on one hand, a life potential is a life potential. so, the scenario shouldn't matter.

This is where principles need to be applied.

Does this growth have brain function yet? yes or no

If yes, it is murder, if no, it is a growth.
Brain functions start between 3-5 months (debate point, but no less than 3 months). After which, only in cases of danger to the mothers life.

Before the brain functioning, there is no person. After, it is a human being.

Thank you science for giving me a rational viewpoint on this.

Perhaps a touch off topic here but would you not consider forcing an 11 year old to carry a child to term as a form of child cruelty? Or this where you tell me it takes two to tango?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by SaturnFX
on one hand, a life potential is a life potential. so, the scenario shouldn't matter.

This is where principles need to be applied.

Does this growth have brain function yet? yes or no

If yes, it is murder, if no, it is a growth.
Brain functions start between 3-5 months (debate point, but no less than 3 months). After which, only in cases of danger to the mothers life.

Before the brain functioning, there is no person. After, it is a human being.

Thank you science for giving me a rational viewpoint on this.

Perhaps a touch off topic here but would you not consider forcing an 11 year old to carry a child to term as a form of child cruelty? Or this where you tell me it takes two to tango?

It would be cruel to wait past 5 months before considering the options.

At 5 months, decisions were already made...

I find it interesting that people keep saying things like, "instead of morality" or what have you...

Do you people think morality is black and white or set in stone forever and ever

I'm pretty sure higher levels of moral reasoning are what many people here are doing. They're assessing the situation, and providing moral reasoning to push their position. Nothing wrong with this at all!

Morality is essentially survival outside of one's self. It's looking at what's best for the group. Here, we have a young girl who is pregnant, and will carry a high risk of complications if she's allowed to birth. Not only this, she will be without the kids genetic father for support. You could even say that there's a decent chance the child inherits "bad" genes, giving the set of circumstances.

Too much here which would sway me towards the girl getting an abortion. I fail to see how this is "immoral". The girl gets her life back, and still can be able of birthing by a better man later on.

I certainly wouldn't force her to keep it if it were my daughter. But if it were my daughter, I would support her if she wanted to keep it or not. If she wanted to, I'd help her with the newborn by taking care of it when she'd be in school and stuff like that.

Mostly it'd be her choice, and yes, I do believe some, and I stress the word SOME, eleven year olds are responsible enough to make that kind of choice. It is not based on an arbitrary number, but how the children are raised by their parents. Some girls do mature quicker than others as well.

To say they all can't make the decision just ebcause they're eleven is a huge generalization.

One based on the label of an arbitrary number.

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


be careful, I got my head bit off for suggesting much of the same in another thread here...

Originally posted by Juggernog
Pretty awful story. This poor girl was complaining of stomach pains so mom and boyfriend took her to the hospital, where they discovered that she was pregnant.
The boyfriend then asks for the keys to run an "errand" and never returns.
Then he goes on a crime spree, kidnapping, and robbing before being shot by police

I am, for the most part, not in favor of abortion, especially late term abortion.
However in this case, I would have to put my morality aside and do whats right for the child.

How Ironic you would "do what's right for the child" while in the same context saying it should be aborted.. What's wrong with you?


I want to do what's right for the child so let's kill it.. This is crazy talk...

Originally posted by libertytoall

Originally posted by Juggernog
Pretty awful story. This poor girl was complaining of stomach pains so mom and boyfriend took her to the hospital, where they discovered that she was pregnant.
The boyfriend then asks for the keys to run an "errand" and never returns.
Then he goes on a crime spree, kidnapping, and robbing before being shot by police

I am, for the most part, not in favor of abortion, especially late term abortion.
However in this case, I would have to put my morality aside and do whats right for the child.

How Ironic you would "do what's right for the child" while in the same context saying it should be aborted.. What's wrong with you?


I want to do what's right for the child so let's kill it.. This is crazy talk...

edit on 13-9-2012 by libertytoall because: (no reason given)

Ive explained my reasoning in at least one post but to put it bluntly...she is 11!

As horrible as this scenario is, it's still not the baby's fault. As a general rule I don't support punishing innocents for what the guilty do.

Also, adoption exists, so the idea of an 11yo caring for a child is moot. I'd support abortion in this case if it was the only way to save the girl's life, and even then I'd be conflicted. How do you choose between lives? It's an easy choice for those who believe the unborn to be lifeless, but I don't buy that.

All of us have responsibility thrust on us from time to time whether we like it or not. Sometimes we deal with it, sometimes we don't. Ultimately I don't think any choice is the wrong choice as what's right and wrong is a matter of perspective. However there are always consequences.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Exitt

 

I just had a chat with my daughter who is about that age, regarding what she would want to do.

She's beyond her years mind you, but she just replied " do you think any 11 year old is responsible enough to take care of kids? If I was, why do I live here?"

So I'll stand by what I said. I agree discussing it is important, but in the end, I know what's best for my child when it comes to things like pregnancy at 11.

~Tenth

Smart cookie you got there! Lol....my son is 11, but speaks like an 80 yr. old. Wise beyond his years. However, his body & those in the 6th grade with him, are not hardly developed or just starting. As far as something so life changing, I would have to make that decision. I definately agree with you. I am severely disappointed with the mom...

So carrying a baby to term and placing it for adoption would be more painful that her having to live with the memory of an abortion? I wholeheartedly disagree.

This abortion mentality is sad. The innocent one pays for the crime of her father. Half of all chromosomes come from mother. Not worth considering?

The girl will forever remember either giving the baby life or death.

To give someone the gift of life is awesome. How can you feel bad about that?




Pro-life bashing in 3,2,1..........

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
So carrying a baby to term and placing it for adoption would be more painful that her having to live with the memory of an abortion? I wholeheartedly disagree.

This abortion mentality is sad. The innocent one pays for the crime of her father. Half of all chromosomes come from mother. Not worth considering?

The girl will forever remember either giving the baby life or death.

To give someone the gift of life is awesome. How can you feel bad about that?



Pro-life bashing in 3,2,1..........

This boils down to the fact that to deliver the baby, at the age of 11, is just too dangerous. Her body is not capable, at such a young age, to carry A baby to term anyway. I am around these 6th graders/11 yr. olds all the time. As I explained above, their bodies are not fully formed...why would anyone want to endanger the life of the 11 yr old, when chances are, the baby itself would probably not survive to term..

"A recent report by the Guttmacher Institute said teen pregnancies in the U.S. were up 3 percent in 2006. But this case is not about a teenager, noted Dr. Abdulla Al-Khan, a leading high-risk obstetrician — it’s about a pre-teen whose body is not yet built to carry a child."


Read more: www.foxnews.com...

Possible but dangerous...(hope this posted correctly)

Further information regarding this health and safety issues involved in a preteen pregnancy and birth.

Doctors Appalled By 10-Year-Old Giving Birth

"Any 10-year-old who is pregnant has already been abused significantly by somebody," he said. "That probably should go without saying."

Nor are 10-, 11- and 12-year-olds remotely prepared to care for a baby, Wall said. But the risks are physical, as well.

"The placenta preferentially will take nutrition from the mother, who really is a child," said Sherry Thomas, an ob/gyn at Mission Community Hospital in Panorama City, Calif. That means that the developing fetus will leach calcium and other nutrients from a child who should still be growing herself. Likewise, pregnancy puts a major strain on the cardiovascular system, according to Wall. Pregnant women have about 50 percent more blood circulating through their bodies compared with non-pregnant women. The greatest danger, however, is to the pelvic floor.

Girls may start ovulating and menstruating as early as age 9, though the average is around 12 to 13. (Some studies suggest that the average age of first menstruation is dropping, but the data is not conclusive.) Just because a girl can get pregnant, though, doesn't mean she can safely deliver a baby. The pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens, meaning that young girls may not be able to push the baby through the birth canal. The results are horrific, said Wall and Thomas, who have both worked in Africa treating women in the aftermath of such labors.

Girls may labor for days; many die. Their babies often don't survive labor either. The women and girls who do survive often develop fistulas, which are holes between the vaginal wall and the rectum or bladder. When the baby's head pushes down and gets stuck, it can cut portions of the mother's soft tissue between its skull and her pelvic bones. As a result, the tissue dies, and a hole forms. Feces and urine then leak through the hole and out of the vagina. Women with fistulas are often divorced and shunned. And young girls are at higher risk.

"The younger you are, the more trauma will occur, because the pelvic floor isn't developed enough," Thomas said. In that way, she said, the young Colombian girl was fortunate to have access to a hospital that could provide a caesarean section. As growth tends to slow in girls once menstruation starts, a 10-year-old capable of getting pregnant is likely to be especially small, with a small pelvis, Wall said. And even if puberty onset is happening earlier (Wall isn't entirely convinced by the current data), pelvises are certainly not maturing any faster, he said. If puberty does occur earlier, that would put young girls at risk for dangerous pregnancies for a longer period of time.

"It's heart-wrenching," Thomas said. "It's just overwhelming to see these young women pregnant and delivering."