Crop Circles: an analysis in the Snow.

In regards to Crop Circles that are not readily apparent as being man-made, there are 3 main teams in this debate as I see it and they are:

1. The extraterrestrial / inter-dimensional hypothesis team.
2. The terrestrial man-made hypothesis team.
3. The not 100% man-made but not extraterrestrial / inter-dimensional or "must be something we have yet to discover" hypothesis team

Back in the early 90's I used to think that crop circles were exclusive to UFO's and Aliens, then about 10 years ago, as I became more and more interested in Art, I became less convinced that the circles were of an Extraterrestrial or Inter-dimensional origin - but not fully convinced they were totally man-made 100% of the time either. There are still unanswered questions, imo, regarding the terrestrial hypothesis (some of you have heard this argument before), mainly:

1. Iron spheres present in "genuine" circles.
2. Elongated apical plant stem nodes, expulsion cavities in the plant stems.
3. Seemingly produced over a very short period of time with no witnesses and very angry land owners.
4. No flood light / ladder feet marks present anywhere to account for the crop height v's lack of crop disturbance.
5. Complex mathematical and sacred geometry properties.
6. "Croppies" meditating within the circles and testifying as to the "energy" experienced.
7. Microwave radiation spikes.
8. Failure of electronic equipment, both on the ground and in aeroplanes, over certain "genuine" circles.

It has always been the "hidden" things about crop circles that have intrigued me most - sure the Artistic / sacred geometry / mathematical aspects are very impressive as well but to combine all of these things simply leaves me in awe.

NB: This post is not about the above ongoing arguments, and I would request that anyone proposing to respond to the above arguments right here desists from doing so - you can do so in this ongoing debate here on ATS.......this post is about shifting gears and to consider other possibilities and I am hoping you can respect that.

So the argument that the circles have become more complex in the last 20 years, apparently "proving" the terrestrial hypothesis, is evident and does not need to be re-visited here.

So.......what does this have to do with snow?

Well, the following crystal examples, amongst other things, has led me to start considering something else - that being mother natures hand in all of this...............




link...

What else has become more complex in the last 20 years besides Crop Circles? Well, a population spike of which the consequential effect has been an increase in the raping of the planets resources.

Now, I'm not a tree-hugger by definition - hell, I work in the Oil & Gas industry but the above photos of snowflake crystals shows that nature can produce razor sharp lines with a "sacred geometry" slant.......and this has led me to personally re-evaluate what I thought was naturally occurring and what was artificial in nature.

Whether you like him or not is irrelevant because he has planted a seed with me that allows me to consider the "mother nature" aspect - Foster Gamble and the Torus Hypothesis.



Basically his premise is that this "Torus pattern" is evident in all nature - from atoms to galaxies and his arguments have some merit and he does attempt to link this pattern with crop circles. Once again there are threads here on ATS if you wish to argue about the validity of his claims and his connections to the NWO agenda - this is not one of those threads - plain and simple.

So, can we perhaps start to look at crop circles from the perspective of mother nature having a hand in all of this and attempting to communicate with us either on her own or with some assistance?......My 8 aforementioned points above regarding the aspect of crop circles that keep me in awe has led me to broaden the scope of my search for answers.

So before you get your flame thrower out lets address the following facts about mother natures recent, ongoing and amplified terrestrial and cosmic activities - we rape her, she punishes us and ignoring the spiritual aspect of humanity here is to ignore countless testimonies since recorded history:

1. Whales and dolphins beaching themselves.
2. Unbelievable "super storms".
3. Earthquakes.
4. A spike in Volcanic activity.
5. Solar Flares
6. Tsunamis.

and is this related.......
1. People from all over the world having strange apocalyptic dreams - including children.
2. People from all over the world seeing 11:11 and other patterns in numerology.

Or do the above examples have explanations based in history, geology and psychology?

Either way, how mother nature weighs in on all of this, if at all, is what I am researching ATM.......hopefully some of ATS's finest can shed some further light as to this possibility either through personal testimony or other in this regard.

Now, the last thing I wanted to show you is very terrestrial in nature. Mr Simon Beck is a world renowned "Snow artist" - and draws his inspiration from crop circles, so I will leave you to admire his handy work and to throw a bone to team number 2.........






View some more of his amazing Art work here

Hackpen Hill Cube

Beautifully written with excellent photo inputs OP. I like where you are going here. My opinion on crop circles does not matter in this thread and I will try to join you in breaking out of the box.

Let's try this idea. Earth has spots on it that attract higher amounts of energy, maybe small vortex's of energy, from tapping in from the magnetic field. Maybe these areas that are in Northern Latitudes are more prone to vortex energy while under an auroral cap. Perhaps particularly energized geomagnetic storms send the energy down to Earth and this is just the way it is translated on the ground. Its a far stretch, but it could be possible.

Well to be honest I think this puts the nail on the coffin of all the theories that crop circles are NOT man made.

We always get the UFO believers saying that crop circles are to complicated to be done in a few hours well in the linked article Simon Beck does the ones in snow himself in about 10 hrs.

So a team of a few people would have plenty of time to do any crop circle!!!!

Genuine crop circles are indeed artwork .
c/- God

If nature made crop circles then they wouldnt be confined to being made in just fields with tracklines in them on nights , in summer time when its warm enough for people to be staying out messing about in fields. Also it wouldnt be confined to crops that are waist deep, we would see patterns popping up in normal grass etc.

It goes without saying that shapes are made by nature and man copies nature to make art. Everything man made is a shape of one kind or another. So there are trillions of examples of man making something that is also replicated in nature everywhere we look.

reply to post by PhoenixOD


Does anyone know accurately time and location of occurence of first crop circle??

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Well to be honest I think this puts the nail on the coffin of all the theories that crop circles are NOT man made.

We always get the UFO believers saying that crop circles are to complicated to be done in a few hours well in the linked article Simon Beck does the ones in snow himself in about 10 hrs.

So a team of a few people would have plenty of time to do any crop circle!!!!

Ah... Another person who lumps everyone together into the UFO/alien category if they disagree with all crop circles being manmade.

And yes, of course doing prints in the snow is the same as weaving wheat stems after elongating one side to make it bend at a 90 degree angle. I won't even mention increasing microwave radiation in the area and sprinkling small iron balls.

There is something you should know.. different forms of art take different lengths of time. I could draw a lifesoze you in a half day. Spraypaint a lifesize you in a half hour. But a lifesize sculpture chiselled out of marble would take a month or more. So, do you understand how making prints in the snow would not be the same as making a crop circle?

Just stop and think before you ever spout out the words "this puts the nail in the coffin of that theory!"

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Well to be honest I think this puts the nail on the coffin of all the theories that crop circles are NOT man made.

We always get the UFO believers saying that crop circles are to complicated to be done in a few hours well in the linked article Simon Beck does the ones in snow himself in about 10 hrs.

So a team of a few people would have plenty of time to do any crop circle!!!!

Also some of his designs are anything up to 10 times larger than any known crop circle ever made. It certainly shows how a team of people can make a relatively small crop circle in just one night.

reply to post by 3n19m470


Ahhm

Iron is critical for cholorphyll formation and photosynthesis. Cholorphyll is the small "sun-panels" which the plants use to harvest energy from the sun

Iron is only required in very small amounts which is lucky because iron is usually only available in very small amounts in the soil

Now were could those iron spheres came from

reply to post by PhoenixOD

If nature made crop circles then they wouldnt be confined to being made in just fields with tracklines in them on nights , in summer time when its warm enough for people to be staying out messing about in fields. Also it wouldnt be confined to crops that are waist deep, we would see patterns popping up in normal grass etc.

I have studied every argument from all sides on this issue and that is why I have decided to branch out in my research because answers such as yours do not address specifics and are made primarily on presumptions. This is why I have also bought to everyone's attention Mr Simon Beck - I am beyond the human man-made 100% of the time theory - it simply fails to address and/or replicate the hidden specifics regarding genuine circles. Simon's work is stand alone and deserves recognition for obvious reasons - he is accessible on facebook if you want to query him on why he won't do wheat fields.

I am sure this comment of yours above is not intended to prove to me that you are an expert in "how nature works" as that would be a very big call indeed. In my opinion, they could be confined to certain areas - and the Ley-Line hypothesis, for instance, is a testament to that......

Debunking the hoax theory of Crop Circles

So in addressing your comment(s),
1. What you call "summer time", I'll call "growing season".
2. Your suggestion that all circles are created in fields with track-lines is inaccurate:-




The Byron Bay Sand Circles 2005

3. Yes - we do indeed see them popping up in fields other than wheat crops, not only sand but also other fields of various vegetation types as well.............
4. The phenomena is not isolated to a small area within the UK.

Most circles are concentrated in the south of England, primarily in the counties of Hampshire and Wiltshire. Many of them have been found near Avebury and Stonehenge, two mystical sites containing large stone monuments. But crop circles are not confined to England.

They have been spotted in the United States, Canada, Australia, Japan, India and other parts of the world. The "season" for crop circles runs from April to September, which coincides with the growing season. Circles tend to be created at night, hiding their creators (human or otherwise) from curious eyes.

Crop circles can be found in many different types of fields -- wheat, corn, oats, rice, oil-seed rape, barley, rye, tobacco -- even weeds. Most circles are found in low-lying areas close to steep hills, which may explain the wind theory of their creation.

Science.howstuffworks

Your comments are noted but do not address any of the unseen aspects as per my 8 points in my OP. Mother Nature, ley lines and electro-magnetic field interference are just as plausible as the hypotheses' of teams 1 & 2.

reply to post by wmd_2008


That would suggest that iron spheres such as these are evident in all flora when examined under a microscope - which they are not.




Also, please provide your link(s) to the external content you are referencing so I may study those comments in more detail.

reply to post by Sublimecraft

1. What you call "summer time", I'll call "growing season".

There are millions of other fields that have vegetation at times other than the summertime.

2. Your suggestion that all circles are created in fields with track-lines is inaccurate:-

I didnt say circles i said 'crop circles' so its your quote that is inaccurate

People making the crop circle use the track lines to get to the space where they are making the design without leaving any track marks (usually in the center of the field where they are less likely to be spotted). Also all the parts of the designs are connecting (or no more than a small jump away) which makes it easy to leave no tracks as well, just like those sand circles you have posted. I live by the beach and kids make designs in the sand all the time.

3. Yes - we do indeed see them popping up in fields other than wheat crops, not only sand but also other fields of various vegetation types as well.............

Didnt say anything about it being confined to wheat fields

4. The phenomena is not isolated to a small area within the UK.

I also didnt say anything about it being confined to the UK

I really dont know what post you were reading when you replied to me as all the 4 points you seem to be addressing in reply to my post dont have much to do with anything i said.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

That would suggest that iron spheres such as these are evident in all flora when examined under a microscope - which they are not.

Also, please provide your link(s) to the external content you are referencing so I may study those comments in more detail.

NO you are suggesting that!!!!

Plants NEED iron to function properly iron is found in soil.

So guess what finding iron in crop circles is not a big deal!!!

Google why do plants need IRON you will find many links!!!

reply to post by PhoenixOD

in summer time when its warm enough for people to be staying out messing about in fields.

I was reading your post and my response was in reference to the tone of same - if you are NOT saying that all circles are man made then I apologize - but I think you are implying that in your response so lets be truthful here.

What part of the earth were you referring too when you made this aforementioned comment - because crop circles in other countries are not limited to "summer time" as you say - it sounds like you were thinking of the UK but I am now assuming that you were in no way implying the UK and that the UK did not even enter your thoughts here at all - is that correct?

The beach circles are still an historical anomaly - no one ever came forward to debunk them and the QLD UFO research team did extensive research on them which again showed microwave radiation spikes and unusual "glassing" of the sand - not the work of kids I'm afraid.

Your comment "I really dont know what post you were reading when you replied to me as all the 4 points you seem to be addressing in reply to my post dont have much to do with anything i said" is acknowledged.

The tone of your original post appears obvious to me and in verifying this:

Q - do you think that every single crop circle, which displays all of the "hidden" things I have outlined in my OP, are man made?

If your answer is "Yes" - then I am vindicated in my response to you, if "No" then I apologize for my presumptuousness.

reply to post by wmd_2008

Now were could those iron spheres came from

Sorry - but this is your comment above - emoticon and all, isn't it?

What wisdom was it that you were attempting to impart here by your aforementioned reply?

Like I said in my OP, this is about moving beyond the debate between man-made theories and the ET hypothesis so unless you can provide evidence to prove my 8 "hidden" points in my opener I suggest you take your debate to the link I provided.

Your suggestion that I research, using Google, to understand why plants need iron is simply disrespectful and immature in very way possible - I hope you feel good about it behind your keyboard there.

Please respect my wishes and refrain from derailing the theme of this OP. If you are not willing to discuss the "mother Nature" aspect of this then go to the links I have provided.

reply to post by Sublimecraft


Your attempt to pigeon hole your response to either i agree with your idea or you were justified in misquoting me seems somewhat take the phrase twisted logic to a whole new level.

Misquoting me and implying i said things that i didn't cannot be justified just because you don't like what i am saying. So there is no 'vindication' for you as you just made up a bunch of points that had nothing to do with what i posted. I see you did the same with someone else's post in this thread as well, for someone who claim to study things carefully you sure seem to miss a lot of detail and just fill in the blanks with your own ideas.

One person claims to find something like iron balls in a circle and then claims that these are the only genuine circles. While another finds a few bent strand (usually less than 10 out of a field of millions) and claims that THESE are the only genuine circles. Yet another will say they have dowsing rods that cross and THESE are the real circles. Someone else says their radio went dead while in a crop circle so they proclaim that MUST be proof of what makes a real non man made crop circle. Others say only the real ones are made on lay lines while yet other say the real ones are made where lay lines intersect. etc etc..

Then someone like collects all the stories up together and posts some thing like "real circles have iron balls, bent strands, stop radios from working and cross dowsing rods on intersecting lay lines. Explain wow that happens?"

My answer to that is ..show the the circles that have all those things or just pick one story and claim that's what defines a real non man made crop circle.

People are simply gullible and a certain amount of the population will always think crop circle are not man made no matter how many time they see videos of people making them or hear explanations on how they are made , meanwhile the people who make these things fall about laughing at how gullible people are.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Sublimecraft

 

Misquoting me and implying i said things that i didn't cannot be justified just because you don't like what i am saying. So there is no 'vindication' for you as you just made up a bunch of points that had nothing to do with what i posted. I see you did the same with someone else's post in this thread as well, for someone who claim to study things carefully you sure seem to miss a lot of detail and just fill in the blanks with your own ideas.

One person claims to find something like iron balls in a circle and then claims that these are the only genuine circles. While another finds a few bent strand (usually less than 10 out of a field of millions) and claims that THESE are the only genuine circles. Yet another will say they have dowsing rods that cross and THESE are the real circles. Someone else says their radio went dead while in a crop circle so they proclaim that MUST be proof of what makes a real non man made crop circle. Others say only the real ones are made on lay lines while yet other say the real ones are made where lay lines intersect. etc etc..

Then someone like collects all the stories up together and posts some thing like "real circles have iron balls, bent strands, stop radios from working and cross dowsing rods on intersecting lay lines. Explain wow that happens?"

My answer to that is ..show the the circles that have all those things or just pick one story and claim that's what defines a real non man made crop circle.

People are simply gullible and a certain amount of the population will always think crop circle are not man made no matter how many time they see videos of people making them or hear explanations on how they are made , meanwhile the people who make these things fall about laughing at how gullible people are.

edit on 10-9-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

NB: This post is not about the above ongoing arguments, and I would request that anyone proposing to respond to the above arguments right here desists from doing so - you can do so in this ongoing debate here on ATS.......this post is about shifting gears and to consider other possibilities and I am hoping you can respect that.

I have provided numerous links to answer every single question you raise right here. You have not provided anything except your "opinion".

people who make these things fall about laughing at how gullible people are. - a simple "Yes" would have been sufficient to my question but I do indeed feel vindicated now - thank you.

NB: Since you are monitoring my responses to others - you also need to respect my request and head over to the debate thread as well - this one is not for you. There is nothing in your posts thus far which have contributed positively to my research.

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
In regards to Crop Circles that are [i]not readily apparent as being man-made,

1. Iron spheres present in "genuine" circles.
2. Elongated apical plant stem nodes, expulsion cavities in the plant stems.
3. Seemingly produced over a very short period of time with no witnesses and very angry land owners.
4. No flood light / ladder feet marks present anywhere to account for the crop height v's lack of crop disturbance.
5. Complex mathematical and sacred geometry properties.
6. "Croppies" meditating within the circles and testifying as to the "energy" experienced.
7. Microwave radiation spikes.
8. Failure of electronic equipment, both on the ground and in aeroplanes, over certain "genuine" circles.

Underlined above just because we don't know how doesn't mean it wasn't man made.

1) Whats a GENUINE circle?
2) Any real proof that cant happen other than in circles?
3) Done at night and are all landowners angry?
4) Who says they are required?
5) Can humans not do complex maths and geometry?
6) Of course they do
7) Proof of levels before circle?
8) Refer to number one GENUINE? ( Only seems to happen to believers)


The iron spheres are tiny 10-40 microns that's 1/100th to 4/100th's of a MM across, NO iron in the soil NOW that would be a mystery

reply to post by Sublimecraft

NB: Since you are monitoring my responses to others - you also need to respect my request and head over to the debate thread as well - this one is not for you. There is nothing in your posts thus far which have contributed positively to my research.

No there is nothing i my posts that have confirmed what you are suggesting. There is no positive or negative. so please stop trying to fight people off who dont agree with your ideas as this not how things work around here.

1. Iron spheres present in "genuine" circles.
2. Elongated apical plant stem nodes, expulsion cavities in the plant stems.
3. Seemingly produced over a very short period of time with no witnesses and very angry land owners.
4. No flood light / ladder feet marks present anywhere to account for the crop height v's lack of crop disturbance.
5. Complex mathematical and sacred geometry properties.
6. "Croppies" meditating within the circles and testifying as to the "energy" experienced.
7. Microwave radiation spikes.
8. Failure of electronic equipment, both on the ground and in aeroplanes, over certain "genuine" circles.

It has always been the "hidden" things about crop circles that have intrigued me most - sure the Artistic / sacred geometry / mathematical aspects are very impressive as well but to combine all of these things simply leaves me in awe.

You cant just combine a lot of separate ideas about crop circles and them claim they are 'the secret things' to do with crop circle when there is no proof that any one circle ever had all these things.

So i will repeat what i side in my other post as it is everything to do with your OP no matter what you claim.

One person claims to find something like iron balls in a circle and then claims that these are the only genuine circles. While another finds a few bent strand (usually less than 10 out of a field of millions) and claims that THESE are the only genuine circles. Yet another will say they have dowsing rods that cross and THESE are the real circles. Someone else says their radio went dead while in a crop circle so they proclaim that MUST be proof of what makes a real non man made crop circle. Others say only the real ones are made on lay lines while yet other say the real ones are made where lay lines intersect. etc etc..

Then someone collects all the stories up together and posts some thing like "real circles have iron balls, bent strands, stop radios from working and cross dowsing rods on intersecting lay lines. Explain wow that happens?"

My answer to that is ..show the the circles that have all those things or just pick one story and claim that's what defines a real non man made crop circle.

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
In regards to Crop Circles that are [i]not readily apparent as being man-made,

1. Iron spheres present in "genuine" circles.
2. Elongated apical plant stem nodes, expulsion cavities in the plant stems.
3. Seemingly produced over a very short period of time with no witnesses and very angry land owners.
4. No flood light / ladder feet marks present anywhere to account for the crop height v's lack of crop disturbance.
5. Complex mathematical and sacred geometry properties.
6. "Croppies" meditating within the circles and testifying as to the "energy" experienced.
7. Microwave radiation spikes.
8. Failure of electronic equipment, both on the ground and in aeroplanes, over certain "genuine" circles.

Underlined above just because we don't know how doesn't mean it wasn't man made.

1) Whats a GENUINE circle?
2) Any real proof that cant happen other than in circles?
3) Done at night and are all landowners angry?
4) Who says they are required?
5) Can humans not do complex maths and geometry?
6) Of course they do

7) Proof of levels before circle?
8) Refer to number one GENUINE? ( Only seems to happen to believers)


The iron spheres are tiny 10-40 microns that's 1/100th to 4/100th's of a MM across, NO iron in the soil NOW that would be a mystery

no disrespect intended but........

unless you can provide evidence to prove my 8 "hidden" points in my opener I suggest you take your debate to the link I provided.

Evidence - links to 3rd party research, lab analysis results and field studies - not your opinion with the use of emoticons to display your state of mind regarding this thread. Please provide same or desist from any further posts here.