Just How Truly ‘Pro-Choice’ Is The Democratic Party?

Originally posted by wascurious

Originally posted by The Old American
No, he and people that actually believe in human rights want human fetuses to have the same rights as a born person. The "tired argument" is one that keeps being dodged by the pro-abortion crowd.

/TOA

edit on 8-9-2012 by The Old American because: (no reason given)

Then that fetus needs to be able to live outside of the mother.
Why is simple biology so hard for people in these threads? If that babies needs to be inside me to live, it is subject to my rights not the other way around. I am certain you right wing men would not support the idea of anyone being able to invade your body and then trump your rights, would you?

I find it really curious that left-leaners and radical activists never seem to be working on improving pregnant women's health issues. I just never hear these days that pregnant women aren't being given enough attention. Where are the nanny staters who think society should be taking care of people? Where are the health nuts who care about the nutrition needs of preggie women?
Liberals used to be about talking to your unborn baby because the baby's soul could respond. You know playing classical music and all of that. How about chiropractic care during pregnancy? Where are all the Lamaze instructors and yoga advocates and health food people? This was all important in the 80's.
Why is everything about getting abortions and contraception these days?

You are ridiculous. Condoms and the pill are not 100% effective

Sorry, I stopped reading after seeing this. I think you need to go away and do some reading of your own. You keep bringing up biology class yet you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Seriously, stop digging yourself deeper, you will only look worse than you already do.

I'm done responding to you.

I will not even read it if you respond, because after this?

Seriously.... WOW.

reply to post by ideasarebulletproof


You give me examples of men who WILLINGLY HAVE SEX WITH A GIRL and then cannot believe they are responsible for a baby and you call me stupid?

OK.

Originally posted by ideasarebulletproof

You are ridiculous. Condoms and the pill are not 100% effective

Sorry, I stopped reading after seeing this. I think you need to go away and do some reading of your own. You keep bringing up biology class yet you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Seriously, stop digging yourself deeper, you will only look worse than you already do.

I'm done responding to you.

I will not even read it if you respond, because after this?

Seriously.... WOW.

You are going to have to tell me what is wrong with that statement then. It is a fact. All you do is call me stupid without being able to support why. Now I am stupid for posting a fact? Then show me the error.

reply to post by ideasarebulletproof


Any man that wears a condom and then thinks he will NEVER GET THAT GIRL PREGNANT IS AN IDIOT.
Any man that thinks a girl on the pill is going to keep him from getting her pregnant is also an idiot.

I need to know where all this lost you.

Originally posted by wascurious
reply to post by ideasarebulletproof

 

Any man that wears a condom and then thinks he will NEVER GET THAT GIRL PREGNANT IS AN IDIOT.
Any man that thinks a girl on the pill is going to keep him from getting her pregnant is also an idiot.

I need to know where all this lost you.

Sorry, I guess I misread your post. I read it as you saying they ARE 100% effective.

My apologies.

I don't even know exactly what we are arguing about anymore, so allow me to lay out my opinion on a few things:

I'm pro-choice.

I'm not against insurance covering birth control.

Women can rape men. It's an obvious fact, do some research.

The laws are disproportionate in favor of women in civil cases of child support, child custody etc.

The punishments for committing the exact same crimes are disproportionate in favor of women.

Response to male victims of violent/sexual crimes compared to female victims of similar crimes, is vastly disproportionate in favor of women.

Support for male victims of violent/sexual crimes compared to support for female victims of similar crimes is vastly disproportionate in favor of women.

So, there you have it. All of these opinions are backed by facts, and are pretty obvious to anyone with eyes or ears.

reply to post by wascurious

first, i never suggested that men can be impregnated.
strawman arguments don't get very far here.

second, men have been raped for the primary purpose of stealing their sperm to specifically impregnate a woman who was not of their choosing.
(contrary to your ignorance, it has happened)

so, this quote would be from someone other than you ??

Men who have been drugged to the point of being raped by a woman can get hard and ejaculate? Really? Oh you are going to have to educate me on this, and with facts.

Then see if you can spot the difference between rape, and taking advantage of someone. There is a difference.

Have one single case for me? No? OK, moving on then.

just checking, since you think i'm not following along.

and one more just for good measure ... didn't you say ...

Men are the only ones that can impregnate anyone against their women. Women do not have that power.

i'd suppose you never heard of the "turkey baster" process, eh ??
several females have stolen sperm from a man and impregnated themselves, then sued and won child support.
that's right, impregnated themselves, against the man's wishes.

then there's this ...

You educate me. How a woman gets pregnant by forcibly felating a man, I have to hear.

first, i don't know that anyone can force fellatio on a man
however, if you mean ... retain the ejaculation for nefarious purposes --> it's been done.

here's a few links --> feel free to search more at your leisure.

mommyish.com...
a woman who allegedly stole her now ex-boyfriend’s sperm from a used condom and then used it to impregnate herself with twins through IVF. She then went ahead and sued her ex for child support – and won!

sperm snatching ... bigthink.com...
bragging although unsuccessful ... thegloss.com...

and all the while, i've been patiently waiting for you to explain this ...

Then see if you can spot the difference between rape, and taking advantage of someone. There is a difference.

what is this difference of which you speak ??

Or are you trying to tell me that all men enjoy all oral stimulation any time, regardless of the source.

can't say i've ever met a man that didn't.

apparently, you never heard this rather popular joke on the subject ...
2 ppl on opposite sides of the planet ... are having exactly the same thought at exactly the same moment in time.
one is walking a tight-rope, the other is enjoying fellatio by a rather ugly, 80+yr old woman ...
both are having the same thought at the same moment ...
what "thought" is that ??

[ answer: don't look down ]

and lastly, when has a man ever obtained an abortion ??
since that answer is never, why should they have any say in someone else obtaining one ??

and, on the other side of the fence which you don't even seem to be considering ...
what about women who choose to participate in an orgy and turn-up pregnant ??
why should any of the men be "held accountable" ??

they didn't agree/consent to participate in a pro-creation party.
her getting pregnant was via her own lack of protection
(or proper administering of said protection)
why should any of the men involved be held to a higher standard ??

reply to post by wascurious

didn't say you did but i am not discussing the content of a video i cannot view.
(SF at the DNC -- what does it matter who posted it?, you're still discussing it)

like i said, i have no idea what she said at the DNC. her Congressional testimony, i did hear.

Funny though how it seems like all you are talking about is her freedom to not get pregnant against her will not being a valid freedom though, considering what the topic actually is.

when did i say any such thing ??
i do think i mentioned SF wasn't the topic of this thread though.

Where in that post are all these pregnant men?

why do you keep demanding proof of what doesn't exist ??

Then you should have given me a list of the men that have been raped and court ordered to pay child support if that is what you wanted me to see.

see above and try searching your own data for once.

You cannot go "men get raped, see I proved men have to pay for kids they did not want." You are skipping a big step there.

not only did i NOT say such a thing ... it has happened, see above.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
just like you are more concerned about a clump of cells then the fully formed person.

This is not a clump of cells

This is a preborn baby .. sucking his or her thumb.
The baby is FULLY FORMED and has brain waves at three months in the womb.
After that, it just gains weight and finished 'cooking'.

It's strange that many on the left keep referring to FULLY FORMED preborn children as just 'clumps of cells'. That simply isn't true.

while you may be correct in your presentation ... it is STILL a parasite until it can survive sans host.

question -- let's take this one step further.
IF it is determined that a fetus has unalienable rights ... how will that translate for corporations ??
you know, those "other" persons with "rights".

are we subject to liability/punishment if a corporate idea tossed around at lunch doesn't develop? will that make us murderers ??

what about when a corporation closes a subsidiary ??
are they guilty of murder ??
when and where does it end ??

Originally posted by wascurious
reply to post by ideasarebulletproof

 

Any man that wears a condom and then thinks he will NEVER GET THAT GIRL PREGNANT IS AN IDIOT.
Any man that thinks a girl on the pill is going to keep him from getting her pregnant is also an idiot.

I need to know where all this lost you.

not sure about the poster you addressed but i'm beginning to get the notion that your evasive argument is in favor of abstinence and nothing else. am i close yet ?