Lobbyists Are 'Solution,' Government Is 'Enemy' - GOP Congressman

reply to post by openlocks

Using Chimpanzees as an argument for Govt. is just funny. By that logic, the physically strongest in our society should be our leaders and everyone else should be subservient to them.

I meant MOST people seek out leaders, not that they should be oppressed by them or any sort of social Darwinism.

If you do any sort of group project, there is usually one of two people who takes control of the situation, The rest of the people just tend to listen to them. It's the reason why there are so many religious people, humans insist on creating authority figures in their life. While I do think that our tolerance of leadership is partly due to social conditioning, it's probably genetically hardwired since most primates live in groups that have authority figures.

Just look at all the people that had no legal obligation to listen to te authority figure in the Millgram experiment.

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of notable social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience.

]Dr. Thomas Blass of the University of Maryland, Baltimore County performed a meta-analysis on the results of repeated performances of the experiment. He found that the percentage of participants who are prepared to inflict fatal voltages remains remarkably constant, 61–66 percent, regardless of time or place.[8][9]

There is a little-known coda to the Milgram Experiment, reported by Philip Zimbardo: none of the participants who refused to administer the final shocks insisted that the experiment itself be terminated, nor left the room to check the health of the victim without requesting permission to leave, as per Milgram's notes and recollections, when Zimbardo asked him about that point.[10]

en.wikipedia.org...

No, they started off as a business venture to make money and compete with the biggest mob (US Govt)

For the US mafia that is true. But the Sicilian mafia was formed due to lack of government (near anarchy in some areas) when Italy switched over from feudalism to capitalism.


First couple minutes of this vid discusses it

we should thus all support the biggest gang (US Govt)?

No, I made a thread about that while ago actually www.abovetopsecret.com...

But just because one form of government is awful, doesn't mean they all have to be.

reply to post by RealSpoke


There is a large difference between someone taking the initiative on a group project and having ruling authorities. One is completely voluntary the other isn't. If I don't want to work on the project I can walk away and start my own project. If I don't want to obey the rulers of this nation, I cannot just walk away and start my own nation or follow my own rules. They would come and kill me and take the land or kidnap (arrest) me for not following their rules.

The real issue is not hierarchies though. It is unhealthy, unnatural, contrived forms of hierarchy that are designed to pit the powerful against the weak, the few against the many, the many against the few... and so on. It is the institutionalization of fundamental causes (food, shelter, defense, education, social organization...) constructed by the few and powerful, to mostly benefit the few and powerful, which is the real problem. For you to call this a necessary evil, and yet be passionately motivated to find solutions to the very same problems IT is creating, is just illogical in my eyes. You dislike racism, inequality, oppression, classism, slavery, warfare... but you still will support the institutions that enforce these atrocities. Seems like a waste of energy. But I assume you maybe just haven't gone all the way into the possibility of what no institutions would look like, that's fair.

Anyways, I see I am making no headway with you though, , and since I mostly agree with you on every other subject, I will resign from this conversation politely.

See you on the boards friend.

reply to post by openlocks


fair enough

Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by openlocks

 

Yeah but, organized crime could form, do whatever it wants...steal peoples land, force women into sexual slavery, extort people to kill any sort of free market. Government is just as evil as humans, without government our evil would oppress others in different forms.

only if people can't protect themselves. self-defense and voluntary organization is key.

There are 6 lobbyist for every Person in Congress.

Their job is to influence , by any means possible, the Interest that is Paying them.

The General Population of the US have no Lobbyist.

"and the land of the free"

reply to post by eLPresidente


That all depends, if there are more "bad guys" than good guys then the good people are going to be overran. It's like a street gang, they thrive in cities because there is small police coverage, even in cities without gun bans. Also because the good people are too afraid to snitch on them in fear of getting killed themselves.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

The General Population of the US have no Lobbyist.

There are some good lobbyists out there, usually working on social issues. But the people can lobby, you don't have to be an "official" lobbyist to lobby.

I was reminded of this -
www.cbsnews.com...

Kroft: You think there are Republicans who have signed it who regret it?

Simpson: I do. I know damn well they have. I've talked to 'em. They come up to us and say, 'Save us from ourselves. I got trapped by this guy.'

In fact there are a few signs it's already beginning to happen - albeit on a small scale.

Thirty-seven Republican pledge signers have urged the select committee to consider all options in solving the debt crisis. And six Republican congressmen, including Steve Latourette of Ohio, have rescinded their pledges altogether. Latourette, who signed his back in 1994, says his driver's license expires, the milk in his refrigerator expires -- the only thing that never expires is the Grover Norquist pledge.

Rep. Steve Latourette: My word has been good on this tax pledge for 18 years. To be bound by something based upon circumstances that existed 18 years ago, when the circumstances are different, I think that's a little naive.


www.usdebtclock.org...

reply to post by Summerian


Too bad Steve Latourette has resigned from politics. On his way out he said: "You have to ‘hand over your wallet and your voting card’ to extremes"