A new country in North America? What do Canadians and Americans make of this?

It is pointless to deny it, the PQ (Parti Québecois) will win the election on sept 4th in Québec. And with it the long forgotten ghost of the 1995 referendum for the independence of Québec will be revived. Only this time, the vast majority of the youth (18-29) WILL VOTE and is mostly positioned for the independence of Québec. The souverenist movement has been resurrected, and with it the hope of an independent République du Québec. (I wish for a socialist republic of Quebec but whatever...)

Although i strongly hope that Québec becomes an independent country based on the fact that we share nothing with Canadians( different language, culture, music, literature, folklore, history etc...) other than the occidental model of society and globalization, this thread is not about arguing if Québec should separate or not but what would the implications be if it did?

The Quebec-American relation would surely have effects on the Canadian-American bilateral cooperation and commerce. Would Canada boycott Québec? Would this separation destroy Canada and fragment it in a bunch different states? Would the U.S.A take advantage of such a situation and buy-off Provinces to make them american states?


Québec is the biggest province by area
Second most populous province
2nd rank GDP
richest province in natural resources.


Basically, would a Québec separation be the beginning of the Canadian downfall? How could Canada remain a country if divided by the huge territory that is Québec?

Will they have to rename the Montreal Canadians hockey team?

reply to post by ExNihilo


I don't see this as a bad thing. I actually refer to my friends from that part of Canada as Quebecois anyway. They always appreciate it.

The downside... maybe they'll team up with the Newfies and form a united front against the rest of Canada! Lotta bitterness from what I hear!

~Heff

reply to post by ExNihilo


Quebec is seeking to become an independent nation? Where are the sources for this? This seems a bit of a jump, considering all you have is speculation (from the looks of it).

...bah, I don't know nearly enough to be on this thread. -.-'''

I don't know what the ramifications would be but I would love to see Quebec separate into its own nation. I think if a people don't don't identify with the nation as a whole, and believe they would be better off on their own, they should be.

I feel certain the rest of Canada would not even consider becoming a part of the US. I wouldn't mind if they did. I love the country itself and my experience with the people has always been positive. If Quebec becomes its own nation, as long as they promise to keep Celine Dion, I would welcome the rest of Canada over should they choose.

reply to post by Hefficide


I take it you're Canadian? What's the backstory to all this? Any official headlines about this deal with forming an independent nation as a stepping stone to a united front?

And what's all this got to do with America? I'm a little lost here.

is that siberian iris?

didnt know iris grew well in canada/quebec, its sooo cold up there!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Hefficide

 

I take it you're Canadian? What's the backstory to all this? Any official headlines about this deal with forming an independent nation as a stepping stone to a united front?

And what's all this got to do with America? I'm a little lost here.

edit on 1-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Backstory is that the separatists are going to be in power in a couple days and what this has to do with America ? Well, hmm Québec is in America...

One step closer to connecting the continental US to Alaska...

Why would any province in Canada want to join the USA. They aren't that dumb up there. It would be a lose lose situation for them, maybe it would look attractive at first but in a couple of years the businesses will have scavenged away their resources and they would then be a poverty state. Ten years max with the size of todays equipment and they would be broke. It's best to keep a small and efficient workable economy than join the ratrace. Once the resources are gone they are gone. Why get pennies on the dollar for your resources from foreign companies when you can develop them yourself.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I'm an American. I just have a large number of Canadian friends, online and in real life... so I'm familiar with the ins and outs of Canadian thought. Quebec, as mentioned, is a fully separate culture - French based and not English based ( language and identity ). That province is already a separate nation, to a degree.

Now as to the real political issues that the Quebecious separation might cause - tax revenue, national security, and border control all come to mind quickly... I'll leave those issues for actual Canadians to discuss.

Oh, and my Canadian friends... send me some beer and Timbits... eh?

~Heff

From what I understand about half of Quebec is aboriginal land. I don't see them joining the Quebecois... lol. This is a non-issue in Canada. I am in Western Canada and if seccesion is allowed I'll say good riddance to bad rubbish.
The St. Lawrence seaway will be a bone of contention that will have to be dealt with.

Back in my younger days, some of the states in the south wanted to secede (I'm pretty old). Would the government of Canada allow it. If not, I suppose it would depend on how separate they wanted to be. If the national government removed all government activites, power transmission lines, withdrew all courts (except provincial) required the citizens of Quebec to have visas to enter Canada and go through Customs, etc., etc., etc., I can see the Party saying "Whoa, wait a minute here."

Doesn't it depend on how much Canada wants to keep them? If they really, really, do want to keep them, then separation could be pretty tough to pull off.

It surprises me that I need to jump in on this thread. The issue of Quebec seperatism has been a long standing water-cooler topic across Canada.

As a quick intro into the issue for the non informed, Quebec has had two separate referendums on independence from the rest of Canada. Both motions did not pass, no matter how slim the margin. After the last referendum failed in 1995 the separatist movement too a backseat to more pressing issues in Quebec under the leadership of jean charest.

What you must understand is that Canadians on both sides of the issue are very polarized. Most English speaking Canadians believe the francophones are whiney and have no real comprehension of what seperating our nation would do. The most common response I have heard is that we should let them seperate then invade. While the francophones don't identify as Canadian. As the op said, disparate cultures and language differences plays a big role.

I for one believe it would be folly for Quebec to seperate. The logistics would be mind boggling, and I dare say that the "fledgling" nation would not last long. With no trading partners (the USA, France, pretty much everybody has stated they don't want any part of a sovereign quebec) and a large bureaucracy, it would only be a matter of time before the could not support their own citizens. Not to mention the damage this would cause to Canada. It's simply unfathomable.

What the OP fails to mention is that even if the seperatists gain power, another referendum would need to be called, and we all saw how that worked out last time.

"there's no Canada like French Canada, it's the best Canada in the land, the other Canada is a bull s@$t Canada and if you lived here for one day you'd understand"

That sums it up nicely.

Even worse for Marois's cause, support for her party's raison d'etre — Quebec independence — is at an exceptionally low 28 per cent in the survey.

The data suggest support for sovereignty has dropped eight percentage points during the campaign, while the number of undecided voters has increased to 10 per cent and support for Canadian federalism stands at 62 per cent.

www.cbc.ca...

It's a pipe dream.

The election is far from won but even if the PQ win, independence won't be happening anytime soon, if ever. Why'd the Bloc get their asses handed to them last time out?

And if it does come to it, you all better hope to have some form of military ready on the day it's announced because Canadian troops will be rolling in to secure Canadian assets. We were ready last time and it will be worse if Harper is still PM. Chretien was a Liberal and a Quebecer, Harper won't have the same respect as he did.

Originally posted by the cynic jester
It surprises me that I need to jump in on this thread. The issue of Quebec seperatism has been a long standing water-cooler topic across Canada.

As a quick intro into the issue for the non informed, Quebec has had two separate referendums on independence from the rest of Canada. Both motions did not pass, no matter how slim the margin. After the last referendum failed in 1995 the separatist movement too a backseat to more pressing issues in Quebec under the leadership of jean charest.

What you must understand is that Canadians on both sides of the issue are very polarized. Most English speaking Canadians believe the francophones are whiney and have no real comprehension of what seperating our nation would do. The most common response I have heard is that we should let them seperate then invade. While the francophones don't identify as Canadian. As the op said, disparate cultures and language differences plays a big role.

I for one believe it would be folly for Quebec to seperate. The logistics would be mind boggling, and I dare say that the "fledgling" nation would not last long. With no trading partners (the USA, France, pretty much everybody has stated they don't want any part of a sovereign quebec) and a large bureaucracy, it would only be a matter of time before the could not support their own citizens. Not to mention the damage this would cause to Canada. It's simply unfathomable.

What the OP fails to mention is that even if the seperatists gain power, another referendum would need to be called, and we all saw how that worked out last time.

"there's no Canada like French Canada, it's the best Canada in the land, the other Canada is a bull s@$t Canada and if you lived here for one day you'd understand"

That sums it up nicely.

worked out 49.42% vs 50.58%.
And France would be the first country along with U.S.A to recognize us as a sovereign country i am pretty sure.

Originally posted by the cynic jester
is that we should let them seperate then invade.

It isn't invasion, it is securing Canadian assets on foreign soil, just like what was set to be done last time. Secure them until some agreement can be worked out for either their return to Canadian soil or sale to New Quebec or destroy them. Those were orders last time.

reply to post by GAOTU789


To invade or attack Quebec would not go unpunished.

Originally posted by GAOTU789

Originally posted by the cynic jester
is that we should let them seperate then invade.

It isn't invasion, it is securing Canadian assets on foreign soil, just like what was set to be done last time. Secure them until some agreement can be worked out for either their return to Canadian soil or sale to New Quebec or destroy them. Those were orders last time.

LOL sale or destroy them? that would be a declaration of war against a lot of countries in the world. Even the states would stop the Canadian forces from any attempt to invade.

I can't imagine the US would be buying off provinces. First off it would probably cause too much trouble between Canada and the US, but even if for the sake of argument they did.. I just don't see it working. No one would accept any Canadian province as a US state, it would still be Canadian.

Beyond those musings I can't honestly say I have ever given it any thought. I have never thought twice about Quebec to be honest so I have no clue about their wants/intentions/ect.. I think if the people want it to be an independent country then it should be as the people wish.